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I think this is a very good army. I like it.

I DONT think it's auto win though. For example, could you beat someone who played the same Necron list as you?

Anyway, you might consider upgrading your bastion with a comm relay in order to improve the chances of reserves showing up.

Red_Lives wrote:your forced to snap shot at a flyer. Snap shots are always BS1. So markerlights can't increase your BS while shooting at flyers (as snap shots are always BS 1)

I saw this same language in the BRB. I disagree with your interpretation, but I'll grant the rules aren't clear. Around here, we take that to mean that the model's BS is treated as being 1 for the snap shot, not that it is unmodifiable (thus, targeting arrays and markerlights can modify, and why not?). This is why I asked for a citation to some ruling on this point, rather than a cite to the rule in the book, which is clear as mud on this point. Obviously, the outcome to that question greatly affects the viability of the Tau strategy I outlined. If there is a ruling on it that I don't know about though, I will be happy to stand corrected.

I still think it's way too early to say 'auto-win' for anything, but I do agree that this is a list with a good plan for winning at a tourney. I'd be much more interested in seeing if this list is winning any tourneys in 6 or 8 months, rather than if it would win one tomorrow. This edition just isn't mature enough to know what's good, or even if we do know what's "good," we don't know what the good counters are. This is the kind of list that will cause the gaming community to grow up fast though!

Technically, snapfiring is, according to the BRB, A "Set Value." As in, it is a modifier that "Sets" a value to 1. BRB Page 2 very explicitly states how interactions of various modifiers work.

1st, Apply Multiplications/Divisions
2nd, Apply Addition/Subtraction (markerlight is quite obviously an Addition)
3rd, Apply Set Values (Snapfiring Sets BS to 1)

This is one of the places that the rules are dead simple, and completely clear. Markerlights cannot help a snapfire (but are still great for the cover save).

Grugknuckle wrote:I think this is a very good army. I like it.

I DONT think it's auto win though. For example, could you beat someone who played the same Necron list as you?

Anyway, you might consider upgrading your bastion with a comm relay in order to improve the chances of reserves showing up.

If i play another list just like this one then obviously i can lose with it. but i can't use the comm relay unless i have a unit in the bastion, which defeats its purpose

$10 my guard will beat this.

kinratha wrote: $10 my guard will beat this.

whats in your guard?

6 hydras, 3 vendettas, and to top it off 40 guard with various upgrades. 6 auto cannon heavy weapon teams. plus bring it down order will help with your flyers.

Good list to throw agains my "Formosa PDF". Lets see...

I can hand 24 twin linked S8 AP4 shoots per turn, plus 6 lascannon shots (at 48), at 24 add 6 plasma guns (or 12 if your at 12).

plus psychic powers in a bastion (normally at the center of the tabble).

Boring game...

People who put up these 8-9 and more scythe wing lists are people who have not played scythes that can only zoom. Anymore than 3 scythes and you are going to be tripping over yourself, your opponent, and terrain trying to find a place to put with their restrictions on mobility.

More than likely i see you losing half you planes to not being able to move them at least 18in without landing on something, if your opponent is smart he will place his units using terrain to keep you from doing so.

GiantSlingshot wrote:Technically, snapfiring is, according to the BRB, A "Set Value." As in, it is a modifier that "Sets" a value to 1. BRB Page 2 very explicitly states how interactions of various modifiers work.

1st, Apply Multiplications/Divisions
2nd, Apply Addition/Subtraction (markerlight is quite obviously an Addition)
3rd, Apply Set Values (Snapfiring Sets BS to 1)

This is one of the places that the rules are dead simple, and completely clear. Markerlights cannot help a snapfire (but are still great for the cover save).

I happily stand corrected, as promised

Necronic Angel wrote:People who put up these 8-9 and more scythe wing lists are people who have not played scythes that can only zoom. Anymore than 3 scythes and you are going to be tripping over yourself, your opponent, and terrain trying to find a place to put with their restrictions on mobility.

More than likely i see you losing half you planes to not being able to move them at least 18in without landing on something, if your opponent is smart he will place his units using terrain to keep you from doing so.

Flyers can land on terrain with no penalty you know right? And you can finish the move of your flyer with its hull over enemy models. The only thing that must remain 1" away is the base.

There's plenty of room on the table to fit 9 flying bases.

Deliberate ploy by GW to make profit at your expense.

Once the huge increase in flier sales has tailed off a little they'll give all missile launchers the flakk missile option.

Then they'll laugh at your angry forum mewlings whilst you continue to buy more miniatures anyway.

Buying GW shares might make you feel a bit better.

I don't think this army is auto-win. very much more likely its auto-loss if the Lord is killed, which against a pod marine army is going to happen almost everytime. And some fast DE armies are going to be able to draw a bead on him with some nasty stuff come turn 2 to get rid of him

Sethorly wrote:Deliberate ploy by GW to make profit at your expense.

Once the huge increase in flier sales has tailed off a little they'll give all missile launchers the flakk missile option.

Then they'll laugh at your angry forum mewlings whilst you continue to buy more miniatures anyway.

Buying GW shares might make you feel a bit better.

The thing is, not many armies would actually be able to capitalize on the fact that they have Flakk missiles. Lets take SW for example. Oh noes, you have 15 ML Long fangs, all with Flakk. 6 Night Scythes, along with each with 5 Teslamortals inside, will kill on average 15,5555 MEQ's on the turn they come in. That's practically all those Long fangs gone (of course squad leader shenanigans might reduce that number by 1 or 2 but you get the point). Bear in mind that those 6 Scythes+Tmortals is just 1110pts, so I'll also have other stuff in the list (such as Voltaic Staffteks, as they're ridiculous good at killing vehicles, and bring a nice amount of torrent for infantry too).

Flyers are good because they are hard to kill, but that's not the greatest thing about them. What makes them really good, almost to the point of being OP, is that you will ALWAYS get to Alphastrike with them, with your opponent having no real way of stopping you from doing so. And what makes Necron flyers so good, is that the Infantry inside your Flyers gets to participate in that Alphastrike too. Those 30 Immortals inside your 6 Night Scythes will kill around 6,6666 MEQ's a turn, or 16,6666 GEQ's. That's a lot.

Just food for thought.

Caranthir987 wrote:I don't think this army is auto-win. very much more likely its auto-loss if the Lord is killed, which against a pod marine army is going to happen almost everytime. And some fast DE armies are going to be able to draw a bead on him with some nasty stuff come turn 2 to get rid of him

You can't pod near the lord, as doing so would require podding off table. Please read my 1st post for information about lord/bastion placement.

Auto win for a Mordak list!! Only has to kill 1 model on a no scatter 1st turn deep strike. Takes a 5 Ghost knight retinue, uses a fully loaded Stormraven, TLMM,TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolts, Mindstrike missiles, Techmarine with twin linked plasma pistol, flamer, and the the ultimate bane of Necrons, a Librarian with Warp Rift. So IF the Lord does pass an initiative test, (2/3 chance of losing the game on the 1st and possibly only die roll), then the fun begins. I have actually built this list to face Necrons, but this would be a dream come true!

In all sincerity,I do think the Necrons have tremendous versatility. You have exploited one facet that they currently have an advantage over many other Codices, your flyers. But, as other posters have mentioned, it will be very short lived as other flyers, interceptors, and other skyfire is introduced to sell more product. A very brief moment in 40k history, when GW published a totally incomplete set of units and capabilities. The very best tournament lists are revealed after the tournament as they have proven themselves against all comers and have not exposed themselves to scrutiny.

Please post back after you have played a tournament as I really enjoy reading and watching battle reports. If you do very well, I will be very happy for you. I will be sad if you lose on the first turn as I do think outflankers, deep strikers,will present real problems to name a very few. But do get back to us.

Orikan would suit you better than the Lord and put him in a Night Scythe.

Not sure if you must deploy the IC if he is attached to a unit that is in mandatory Reserves. That would allow you to do null deployment (dropping the Bastion for some Immortals over Warriors).

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be possible for vehicle armies, especially fast vehicles, to move forward turn one and force the necron army to fly right past them turn 2 and deny them their ability to even shoot?

Suppose you start 24" away from your opponent's deployment zone, on a standard size table the vehicles will get 18" from you moving flat out and 18" away from the opponent. The necron vehicles can't come directly on as they would end up in base contact with the vehicles and so would be forced to come on at strange angles.

Best case scenario you'd have 1 turn of shooting before you overshot the enemy and lost the next turn or two trying to turn around.

If your opponent got the first turn even infantry running have a chance of causing this same issue with decent rolls.

I believe flyers that can hover can state their movement mode is hover and act as a fast skimmer entering from reserves. Otherwise, if they can't hover I believe you are correct.

The necron flyers do not have hover, they cannot hover. A flyer only gets the jink save while it is zooming if you go into Evasion, which means you are firing at BS1. You are also going to be moving the minimum of 18 inches. Try it in play some, test runs with flyers has shown them to be very deadly, but also a bit clunky, with numerous turns leaving them nothing to shoot at.

I just played against a 9-scythe army. While not invincible (it is not an auto-win), it is a very strong army indeed.

Here's the battle report:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/462099.page

Youve got to set up at least 50% of your army on the table. So to make this legal you'd have to drop a night scythe squad to get in 3 units. However then if those 3 units die, you lose. Hardly unbeatable.

Dark Haemonculus wrote:Youve got to set up at least 50% of your army on the table. So to make this legal you'd have to drop a night scythe squad to get in 3 units. However then if those 3 units die, you lose. Hardly unbeatable.

I pointed this out and I think most ignored me. Even if he starts all of the warriors on the table and the lord then that's still less than 50% being 7 of of his 16 units. As for the units and transports being 1 unit I believe that is for when they are deployed inside their transport and outside of it it is 2 units. I could be wrong so If i am please correct me on the matter.

Dark Haemonculus wrote:Youve got to set up at least 50% of your army on the table. So to make this legal you'd have to drop a night scythe squad to get in 3 units. However then if those 3 units die, you lose. Hardly unbeatable.

I believe things that HAVE to start in reserve are exempt from that rule. I don't have my BGB on me, but I'm 95% sure I read that the other day.

Jabbdo wrote:Flyers are good because they are hard to kill, but that's not the greatest thing about them. What makes them really good, almost to the point of being OP, is that you will ALWAYS get to Alphastrike with them, with your opponent having no real way of stopping you from doing so. And what makes Necron flyers so good, is that the Infantry inside your Flyers gets to participate in that Alphastrike too. Those 30 Immortals inside your 6 Night Scythes will kill around 6,6666 MEQ's a turn, or 16,6666 GEQ's. That's a lot.

Just food for thought.

I feel the interceptor rule may become more important than the skyfire rule in dealing with fliers, in some ways. It's the only way to get the first shot on them instead of the other way around that I'm aware of so far.

I think this army would do poorly vs an Ork horde, somthing we see very commonly here in Toronto.

Can your Night Scythes shoot down 120-150 boyz in cover? 2/3 of your army comes in turn two. Do you ignore the Loota boyz and focus on the shoota boyz? Can you even focus fire given the number of Flyers you have and the way they move?

A strong army - sure. But hardly auto-win.

FYI

Big Mek w/ KFF
10 Loota Boyz x 3
30 Boyz w/ Nob, Klaw, Boss Pole x 4
10 Grotz
=1455

Lots of points left over for luxuries.

Just because there is a rock to the scissors doesn't mean this isn't a great list for the current metagame. With anti-flyer tell h slim, this will do well until we start seeing Flakk missiles.

It's a strong army that will do well against many armies. The OP's claim was that it was "overpowered and auto-win." I understand that some hyperbole was used, but the fact that it has a (commonly seen) hard counter means that it probably won't go all the way in a major tournament.

...what hard counter? One Ork list? Seems like that is a great way to stomp at a tourney, especially if well played. Most of the metagame will struggle with a proper Scythe spam list.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:...what hard counter? One Ork list? Seems like that is a great way to stomp at a tourney, especially if well played. Most of the metagame will struggle with a proper Scythe spam list.

You guys are saying the same thing. He's just criticizing the "auto-win" hyperbole because there are lists that this army will not beat automatically.