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Jy2 and I had a major showdown between Necrons and Grey Knights. We were curious to see how a Necron Airforce complete with 9 flyers will compete against the infamous Grey Knights Crowe-Purifer list. Unfortunately jy2 forgot to bring his camera. My phone has a built in camera, so I took pictures and will be writing the battle report. I don't own a Necron army. Jy2 lent me some models.
Jy2's Crowe-Purifier list has an impressive track record. In 5th edition, it won many games against many top-tier lists. But with the new 6th edition rules, they got nerfed. Vehicles are much more fragile and can no longer score or contest (unless granted special rules). Force Weapons are AP3 and have difficulty against 2+ saves. Passengers can disembark only if their transport doesn't move more than 6". The biggest nerf is infantry not being able to assault on the turn they disembark from a non-assault vehicle.
However, the new edition favors shooty armies. Jy2's Crowe-Purifiers list has a lot of it. With twelve Psycannons and four Psyrifle Dreads, that's a lot of firepower. Perhaps enough to counter flyers, which need 6's to hit without skyfire rule.
My list on the other hand is experimental and has no proven track record. Six Night Scythes and three Doom Scythes, which sums up to nine flyers! Each has TL-Tesla Destructors. They will tear up most medium armored vehicles and wound most infantry, causing Arc hits to any units within 6" of the wounded unit. The Doom Scythes fires the nasty Death Ray, which could hit multiple units and cause lots of damage.
Flyers are really powerful in 6th edition. They can alpha strike and are hard to hit. Furthermore, thanks to Invasion Beam Necron Warriors can disembark 6" from the flying base as long as the Night Flyer didn't move more than 36". That's a huge distance and great for last minute objective grabs or contest. Overlord got a huge buff. Solar Pulse isn't that useful. Crypteks with Voltaic Staffs are really good against vehicles.
Being a new edition, there are controversies. The biggest is whether Necron Warriors suffers Str10 hit with no armor saves after their crashes and can they WBB in reserves. We decided for this game they will get hit by Str10 without armor saves and they are allowed WBB in reserves.
The table was setup to resemble a dessert fortress. Towers count as single level buildings, craters count as craters, ruins count as ruins, and hills count as hills.
Mission:The Relic It’s like capture the flag with both armies fighting over a single objective. The relic starts off center of the board. A scoring model can pick up the relic in their movement phase. They can also pass on the relic to friendly scoring model if they are based to base contact. Enemy scoring unit has to kill the model holding the relic and pick it up in their movement phase to gain possession. There are of course movement restrictions for the unit with the relic. They cannot move more than 6”. If they are inside a transport, it cannot travel more than 6”. It can’t be transported in a flyer or else the
flyer will automatically becomes wrecked. Whoever has the relic at the end of the game is awarded 3 victory points.
Secondary objectives like all the other missions include Slay the Warlord, Line Breaker, and First Blood. Each one worth 1 victory point.
Mr. Turtle will be the relic today. As per mission rules, he's setup center of the board.
Deployment:Dawn of War It’s essentially Pitched Battle from 5th ed.
Pre-Game Analysis:
Jy2: The purpose of this battle report was twofold. Firstly, we wanted to see just how good is the Necron Airforce, an army of purely flyers. Now we can probably fit 1 more flyer into this army if we had wanted to, but I think an army consisting of 9 flyers is already strong enough. In my opinion, I feel that this may perhaps be one of the most competitive early builds in the new 6th Edition (6E). Many armies won't be able to handle such an army. Only the most shooty of builds may have a chance against this army. The million dollar question here is, are the grey knights shooty enough to stop them?
Which leads us to the 2nd purpose of this report - how have the grey knights translated into 6E? Back in 5th, they were considered by many to be the Top Dog of the competitive armies. And they had every reason to due to the combination (and balance) of assault, shootiness and special rules that the new grey knights possessed. Now in the dawn of a new era, can they still claim the top spot as the best army currently? Or will they be dethroned by the army whom many feel is the new champions?
In this battle, I will be playing my grey knights and SabrX will be playing my necrons (yes, both armies are mine). But before we begin, I'd like to say this:
Disclaimer: Do not use this army (the Necron Airforce) against an opponent not equipped to deal with flyers. It is a very strong army and will frustrate many, especially in casual games. No one likes the feeling of helplessness, but that is how it will turn out if you have no way to deal with flyers.
Ok, now after having said that, I feel that my Crower-Purifier grey knights have what it takes to handle this army. My knights are an incredibly balanced army with good assault and excellent shooting. It's only drawback is its mobility. Compared to my necron opponent, this is like the rabbit (crons) and the tortoise (grey knights....but guess who wins that race? Heh, heh....). But even with this build, I can't help but feel that my grey knights are a slight underdog against my opponent's army, especially if we get one of those objectives-based missions. I think I have the advantage in assault, whereas he definitely has the advantage in mobility. However, I think the winner here is going to be the army with the better Shooting phase. If my knights cand down 2-3 flyers a turn, I think I will get this. If not, then the crons have a good chance to take this game. In any case, I don't expect any of my tanks to be alive at the end of the game. That's how nasty his shooty is (and also how much transports have been nerfed in this new edition).
My strategy is going to be quite risky. Despite the 3 doom scythes in my SabrX's army, I'm going to keep my forces together and advance them as far up as possible. I don't expect my vehicles (including the dreads) to survive, however, if I am together, then my 48 psycannon shots should be able to hit any flyer that was in range to fire at my forces. This will also give me support against his 2 mini-deathstar models. And the further up I advance, hopefully his limited mobility will prevent some of his flyers to be able to target my units. Or at best, they only get 1 shot before they are forced to fly off the board. Now this is a gamble because his doom scythes will probably be able to get multiple vehicles with they deathrays, but I'm hoping cover will help mitigate the damage somewhat. However, the following turn, those doom scythes should be dead as I will focus the entire fury of my shooting at them. Anyways, this strategy shall either lead me to glory or blow up right in my face.
Overall, it isn't going to be an easy battle for my knights. As a matter of fact, it should be a damn tough fight, but I think I have the tools to deal with that many flyers. It's all going to come down to the Shooting phase. Whoever is the better shooter this game will most likely take this game.
Me:
Jy2 summed it well. I have mix feelings how this game will turn out. I have no experience using Flyers and have only played one game as Necrons in 5th edition. Interestingly, that game was also against Jy2's Crowe-Purifier list, which I lost.
My first goal in this game it to take out all Psyrifle Dreads. Dual TL-Str8 Autocannons are extremely effective against Flyers. If I want to maintain air superiority, the dreads got to go.
My second goal is to reduce Grey Knight's mobility. I'm fielding 6 min-size squads of Necron Warriors. They aren't very durable and vulnerable to AP4. If I deploy them too soon, they could get shot up to death. If they stay the Night Scythes, there's also the chance it gets shot up causing any who survive to come in from my table edge. That's a huge setback for small Necron Warrior squads. There's no doubt Jy2 will reach the Relic first and will attempt to pull it back towards his deployment zone. His Grey Knights are durable and could hold onto the Relic until the end of the game. Neutralizing mobility of the unit holding the Relic is a top priority.
Aside from the ridiculous amount of Psycannons and most of Jy2's troop able to decimate Necron Warriors in combat, I also fear Crowe and the Justicar carrying the 2++ Warding Stave. Crowe is one of the single best assault models in the game. 2+/4++ re-rolls and when he dies, he could attempt Heroic Sacrifice. There's no getting back after being removed from the game. On the other hand, the 2++ Warding Stave is just as annoying. It could tie up an Overlord for a whole game. No fear in losing other members in the squad when the Justicar can always issue a challenge. I've had games in 5th ed where Jy2's 2++ Justicar held up an entire Deathwing unit for most of the game and end killing them all. I'm quite glad Jy2 didn't decide to field more Warding Staves.
The biggest advantage I have in this game is alpha strike and going second. I have the initiative to attack first. A successful alpha strike can leave an opponent's army devastated, which impacts the rest of the game. It also guarantees me first blood. On top of that, I'm going second. I get to make the final move over the Relic.
If I play my cards right and lady luck isn't fickle, I should emerge victorious.
Deployment:
Spoiler:
We rolled off for our Warlord traits.
Jy2 nominated Crowe to be his Warlord. He rolled on the Command Traits table and got a 3, allowing all friendly units within 12” to have move through cover special rule. I chose one of my Necron Overlords as my Warlord. I rolled on the Personal Traits table and got a 6, making my Overlord scoring.
Perfect for this mission!
I won the roll off to go first, but I decided to go second instead.
Jy2 deploy his forces as close as possible to the Relic. Rhinos lead the way with Dreadoughts taking cover behind the vehicle wall.
With the new 6th edition rules, it’s mandatory to have a models on the board by the end of turn. I deployed my scoring Overlord behind a wall, well out of TLOS. The rest of my flying army stay in reserves and will come in on turn 2.
Jy2’s vehicle train rushes toward the relic. Dreadnoughts run in the shooting phase.
Necrons
Necron Overlord continues hiding behind a wall. He’s not eager to get shot yet.
Turn 2:
Spoiler:
Grey Knights
More movement and running. Strike Squad inside Rhino picks up the objective. Two Rhinos anticipate an airstrike and pops smoke. One Dread climbs on top one of the towers.
Necrons
I rolled for my reserves. I expected six to become available from reserves, but, only three flyers show up. Thankfully two of them are Doom Scythes. The third is characterless Necron Warrior squad riding a Night Scythe.
They fly in on the Grey Knight’s flank. Overlord makes a surprise appearance.
Night Scythe shoots at the Dreadnought standing on top of the tower. It manages to shake the crew and take a Hull Point off.
First Doom Scythe fires its Death Ray and immediately takes out two Psyrifle Dreads. The second Doom Scythe marks a Rhino and draws a line, hitting Crowe and Venerable Dreadnought. Crowe makes his invulnerable save. Rhino becomes immobilized.
I penetrated and rolled a 6 on the damage table for the Venerable Dread. Jy2 tells me to re-roll. Second time, I rolled a 5, exploding the Venerable Dread.
Wow, very effective first turn of shooting!
Overlord proceeds to assault Purifier Rhino and blows it up. Two purifiers dies in the explosion including a Psycannon and Halberd.
Turn 3:
Spoiler:
Grey Knights
Taking full advantage of Psycannon’s heavy shots, Rhinos leaves their parking breaks on while Grey Knights takes aim. Only Crowe moves forward, ready to do combat against the scoring Overlord.
Forty-four Psycannons and four twin linked Str8 Autocannons later, one Doom Scythe plummets to the ground on top of a nearby Rhino, taking away a hull point. Second Doom Scythe loses two hull points and its Death Ray is destroyed.
Two Death Rays neutralized, not bad.
Tip: If your flyers aren’t in position to shooting any targets and will most likely be flying off the table next turn, remember to Evade for cover saves!
Crowe decides not to parry, on slaying the Overlord, or die trying. Unfortunately he fails Mind Shackle Scarab test and rends himself. Necron Overlord strikes a fatal blow with its Warscythe. In Crowe's final
moment, he attempts Heroic Sacrifice to remove the scoring Overlord from the game. Unfortunately he fails his leadership test and joins the Emperor’s side empty handed.
Necrons
I roll for reserves. This time five flyers become available including three Crypteks squads, the last Doom Scythe, and characterless Necron Warriors squad.
Flyers swarm around the Grey Knight parking lot.
Two previous flyers, which came in last turn, fly off the board.
Scoring Overlord makes a beeline towards the Strike Squad's Rhino, who currently possess the relic.
And another round of effective shooting!
Doom Scythe draws a beam across three Rhinos. The closest becomes immobilize. Strike Squad's Rhino and a Purifier Rhino becomes wreck. On top of that, Strike Squad fails their pinning test.
Mean while, a Night Scythes picks off a one Purifier and two Strikes using its Tesla Destructors.
Another Night Scythes glances the last Dreadnought to death.
Scoring Overlord fails his random charge range against the Strikes.
Ran out of space in original post. Please click link below to continue reading rest of battle report:
Units are not embarked on a Night Scythe, hence they would not suffer any damage from a crashed Nightscythe. That's why, if the Nightscythe goes down, nothing disembarks from the wreckage.
It will be interesting to see how the Necrons avoid losing just from having no models on the battlefield at the end of a game turn (due to all those flyers, and the delicate troops).
9 flyers will be really cool!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/13 12:51:40
2000 pts
Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick.
I'm gonna lean toward jy2 winning. Only because he has a list that he has played many times and understands how it works pretty well. While I think the expermiental list is stronger thanks to its hard to hit glance producing fliers of death, I think it's going to have a steep learning curve.
"AM are bunch of half human-half robot monkeys who keep tech working by punching it with a wrench And their tech is so sophisticated that you could never get it wrapped it out" thing a LITTLE to seriously. It also goes "Tau tech is so awesome I wish I was Tau and not some stupid Human" thing.
BTW, only of my purifier units has 1 warding stave instead of a hammer.
DarthDiggler wrote:Units are not embarked on a Night Scythe, hence they would not suffer any damage from a crashed Nightscythe. That's why, if the Nightscythe goes down, nothing disembarks from the wreckage.
We decided to go with the intepretation that was the more restrictive, or that gave the least advantage to the necron force.
In the case of rules controversies, I tend to go with the more conservative ruling unless we both agree otherwise.
DexKivuli wrote:It will be interesting to see how the Necrons avoid losing just from having no models on the battlefield at the end of a game turn (due to all those flyers, and the delicate troops).
9 flyers will be really cool!
That's easy. Hide 1 or 2 of those invincible Overlords on the board and out of LOS!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/13 14:32:55
SabrX wrote:Being a new edition, there are controversies. The biggest is whether Necron Warriors suffers Str10 hit with no armor saves after their crashes and can they WBB in reserves. We decided for this game they will get hit by Str10 without armor saves and they are allowed WBB in reserves.
In 5th did people think exploding nightscythes hurt embarked units?
I'm really interested in seeing what JY2 does with the purifier lists. I've had to change mine significantly since 6th edition launched due to:
IG allies are really good for support
"The perfect warrior" is completely broken when it comes to challenges and regular characters, works good vs IC though but getting stuck can be problematic
Psyker powers in divination is a huge boon and tough choice to miss out on now
None of my guys are that survivable when it comes to getting shot at.
I stopped using the Ven dread since I can't stop the auto-wreck even with the rerolls :/
Aegis line is really nice for a gunline army
I'm still too dependent on trying to outrange my opponet with the HB + psybolt razorbacks too. Gotta give rhinos more of a try I suppose
Also I'm still really trying to learn when to dismount so that I can charge with them.
Techmarine is so fun, I've really started to like his 2+ saves now along with fancy nades.
Also can see me trying some sort of GK + necron list the way 6th edition is going so far lol.
Lists around me have some nasty necrons along the lines of:
D-lord iwith weave/MSS +6 wraiths with some number of lash + surflord
blocks of shooty immortals and warriors with some ark support but not many arks (usually 1 or 2 based on points) and some nightscythes too.
Solar pulses/lance tek's as standard.
2 to 3 death ray doomscythes
And usually some more wraiths. or he'd drop a scythe and get just one group of scarab + spyder to make it a multi pronged approach.
Suffice it to say, none of my tanks do very well.
Tremor crons still are very powerful too actually.
Quite personally invested to see how this goes down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/13 15:13:50
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
I don't understand any controversy. The rules for the night-scythe says that if it is destoryed then the unit 'inside" comes in through reserves, they aren't actually 'in' the scythe so they can't take a str 10 hit if it crashes...
"Surrender and Die."
"To an Immortal, to one among a legion, honor and your word are all that matter" - Phaeron Orionis of the Brotherhood
Some kinds of RAW disagree, but I don't think they're supposed to take the hit either. If you'll recall, strict RAW on Ever Living wouldn't let an Overlord get back up if he was attached to a unit that got wiped out. We know how that got FAQ'ed.
Looking forward to seeing how the battle goes. Picked up my first Night Scythe the other day, with the intention of getting at least one more in the near future.
Tremorcrons got beat to death with the nerf stick now that you can take armor saves against dangerous terrain. It's really only useful for occasionally immobilizing vehicles and slowing down charges, all of which you don't need the C'Tan for.
The reserve rules are not unkind now with ~6 of those fliers coming in turn 2. GK deployment here is tricky as if you're too far up you're very likely to see loads of Necron troops in your backfield in later turns. I sure hope I don't see any fliers pivoting more than 90° a turn in this report lol.
I just really want to see a dual CCB list sometime. Someone should really push those new chariot rules through their paces. Can. CCBs survive the shorter sweep distances. Or does the 12"+2d6 charge make up for it?
Tremorcrons got beat to death with the nerf stick now that you can take armor saves against dangerous terrain. It's really only useful for occasionally immobilizing vehicles and slowing down charges, all of which you don't need the C'Tan for.
ahh we've been playing it wrong. Thanks for that. Still messing up so many rules. I was all excited on doing a thunderfire cannon + Writhing worldscape list lol.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
DexKivuli wrote:It will be interesting to see how the Necrons avoid losing just from having no models on the battlefield at the end of a game turn (due to all those flyers, and the delicate troops).
9 flyers will be really cool!
That's easy. Hide 1 or 2 of those invincible Overlords on the board and out of LOS!
DexKivuli wrote:It will be interesting to see how the Necrons avoid losing just from having no models on the battlefield at the end of a game turn (due to all those flyers, and the delicate troops).
9 flyers will be really cool!
That's easy. Hide 1 or 2 of those invincible Overlords on the board and out of LOS!
Just watch out for Drop Pod armies...
Not scared of DP armies at all. One thing you have to keep in mind is that units who come in from DP's will be firing in Snapshot mode. Thus, against the 2+/3++ T5 Overlord with 4+ RP saves, even a unit of 10 combi-plasma sternguards will only cause 1 unsaved wound when they come in (20 plasma shots, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved wound).
And if he plays many drop pods, deploy both Overlords and maybe 1 troop all the way out in the corner somewhere.
SabrX, feel free to move my Pre-game to anywhere you see fit in your batrep.
PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:
Necrons: The purpose of this battle report was twofold. Firstly, we wanted to see just how good is the Necron Airforce, an army of purely flyers. Now we can probably fit 1 more flyer into this army if we had wanted to, but I think an army consisting of 9 flyers is already strong enough. In my opinion, I feel that this may perhaps be one of the most competitive early builds in the new 6th Edition (6E). Many armies won't be able to handle such an army. Only the most shooty of builds may have a chance against this army. The million dollar question here is, are the grey knights shooty enough to stop them?
Which leads us to the 2nd purpose of this report - how have the grey knights translated into 6E? Back in 5th, they were considered by many to be the Top Dog of the competitive armies. And they had every reason to due to the combination (and balance) of assault, shootiness and special rules that the new grey knights possessed. Now in the dawn of a new era, can they still claim the top spot as the best army currently? Or will they be dethroned by the army whom many feel is the new champions?
In this battle, I will be playing my grey knights and SabrX will be playing my necrons (yes, both armies are mine). But before we begin, I'd like to say this:
Disclaimer: Do not use this army (the Necron Airforce) against an opponent not equipped to deal with flyers. It is a very strong army and will frustrate many, especially in casual games. No one likes the feeling of helplessness, but that is how it will turn out if you have no way to deal with flyers.
Ok, now after having said that, I feel that my Crower-Purifier grey knights have what it takes to handle this army. My knights are an incredibly balanced army with good assault and excellent shooting. It's only drawback is its mobility. Compared to my necron opponent, this is like the rabbit (crons) and the tortoise (grey knights....but guess who wins that race? Heh, heh....). But even with this build, I can't help but feel that my grey knights are a slight underdog against my opponent's army, especially if we get one of those objectives-based missions. I think I have the advantage in assault, whereas he definitely has the advantage in mobility. However, I think the winner here is going to be the army with the better Shooting phase. If my knights cand down 2-3 flyers a turn, I think I will get this. If not, then the crons have a good chance to take this game. In any case, I don't expect any of my tanks to be alive at the end of the game. That's how nasty his shooty is (and also how much transports have been nerfed in this new edition).
My strategy is going to be quite risky. Despite the 3 doom scythes in my SabrX's army, I'm going to keep my forces together and advance them as far up as possible. I don't expect my vehicles (including the dreads) to survive, however, if I am together, then my 48 psycannon shots should be able to hit any flyer that was in range to fire at my forces. This will also give me support against his 2 mini-deathstar models. And the further up I advance, hopefully his limited mobility will prevent some of his flyers to be able to target my units. Or at best, they only get 1 shot before they are forced to fly off the board. Now this is a gamble because his doom scythes will probably be able to get multiple vehicles with they deathrays, but I'm hoping cover will help mitigate the damage somewhat. However, the following turn, those doom scythes should be dead as I will focus the entire fury of my shooting at them. Anyways, this strategy shall either lead me to glory or blow up right in my face.
Overall, it isn't going to be an easy battle for my knights. As a matter of fact, it should be a damn tough fight, but I think I have the tools to deal with that many flyers. It's all going to come down to the Shooting phase. Whoever is the better shooter this game will most likely take this game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/14 01:19:06
jy2 wrote:Not scared of DP armies at all. One thing you have to keep in mind is that units who come in from DP's will be firing in Snapshot mode. Thus, against the 2+/3++ T5 Overlord with 4+ RP saves, even a unit of 10 combi-plasma sternguards will only cause 1 unsaved wound when they come in (20 plasma shots, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved wound).
Hmm, I'm not so sure. If that's true I certainly wouldn't worry, but the conclusion over in YMDC seemed to be that units deploying from Drop Pods fire normally on the turn that they come in, and only the pods themselves have to Snap Fire.
Disclaimer: Do not use this army (the Necron Airforce) against an opponent not equipped to deal with flyers. It is a very strong army and will frustrate many, especially in casual games. No one likes the feeling of helplessness, but that is how it will turn out if you have no way to deal with flyers.
We actually have one guy that has almost completed his necron air force. He started it wayy long ago with stand in models but it was always a favorite of his. was alot easier in 5th to deal with them but so far I've not had much luck with my old purifiers list given the new flier rules. Hopefully JY2's will do better. The Aegis line I've found out is good vs 1-2 fliers but I've been overwhelmed with them. It's only got 2 wounds >.< The intercept rule is good but doesn't stop alot from swarming. Not to mention all the crazy foot slogging gauss
A staggered formation tends to work better too. He can't really death ray more than 2 units/tanks at a go but does leave your units kind of out in the open quite a bit. After messing with it a bit, I think 6 necron fliers is actually more balanced of a list since you can still use quite alot of other goodies like wraiths and D-lord along with some assault oriented mini-royal court action that can get invasion beamed down with some ablative wound warriors.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
I wonder: does the Overlord snicker to himself, as the tanks approach, like some gleeful child with a prank about to be pulled? 9 flyers is quite a prank.
Nice to see the Doom Scythe do so well. When I first got the codex, I figured that was a unit I would never use. 6th is giving me some second thoughts now.
I learned the hard way that doomscythes are no joke. Even hiding far back doesn't really work since it's 3d6 range. 12' + up to 36 on the move from table edge is just simply massive. You can't really find a safe spot from it.
Only interceptor and redundency tends to work. Put stuff into techmarine bolstered areas really helps and gotta zig zag placement/driving and move the AC dreadnaughts at some 18' away from eachother.
Clustering up in the middle really hurts but getting to midfield is not technically a bad idea since you can run uderneath it and just get shot once since he has to move at least 18' over you
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
Yeah I have to agree with Sudojoe. I learned about the Doomscythe the hard way also. My first game it took out a Bastion with its first shot causing 4d6 wounds on the marine squad inside. That's why I am not worried about fortifications. They can cause so much damage to the guys inside when they blow.
But I still have a lot of fight left in me. For the next couple of turns, I'm just going to sit still and fire 48 psycannon shots at whatever flyer comes my way, starting with those doomscythes.
44 shots (you lost one right?) that's 7 hits 3.5 results say he evades you should only down one maybe two fliers. Now if turn three he plays conservative and stays outside most of your Pcanons range via pre-measuring and focuses on 2 or 3 units you have a problem as you should have to move to fire and you lose half your potency. It will depend on if that first turn went to his head or not and he continues to come head long to you, from here on out he should dictate the terms on which you battle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/14 16:52:08
I saw all those vehicles grouped together and started to get really excited. I then proceeded to pray the doom scythes came in. Then you got two and the results were amazing. Did you fire the tesla on the doom scythes as well?
Also whats this rule about snap firing on deep strike? I only see this for non-fast non-flyer vehicles and for heavy weapons withou relentless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/14 19:04:48
jy2 wrote:Not scared of DP armies at all. One thing you have to keep in mind is that units who come in from DP's will be firing in Snapshot mode. Thus, against the 2+/3++ T5 Overlord with 4+ RP saves, even a unit of 10 combi-plasma sternguards will only cause 1 unsaved wound when they come in (20 plasma shots, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved wound).
Hmm, I'm not so sure. If that's true I certainly wouldn't worry, but the conclusion over in YMDC seemed to be that units deploying from Drop Pods fire normally on the turn that they come in, and only the pods themselves have to Snap Fire.
Tarrasq wrote:
Also whats this rule about snap firing on deep strike? I only see this for non-fast non-flyer vehicles and for heavy weapons withou relentless.
After going through the rulebook again, I must admit that I've made a mistake. I can't find any restrictions regarding firing from a unit that has just disembarked from a drop pod. Only the deepstriking vehicle will be firing at snapshot mode.
Three purifiers seeks vengeance against the Overlord, who destroyed their ride last turn.
The rest of the Grey Knights once again sit back in their Rhinos, with their Psycannons trained toward the sky.
Purifiers picks a wound off the Overlord.
Combined shooting manages to shoot down the Doom Scythe.
Purifiers assaults Necron Overlord. Justicar issues a challenge, which the Overlord can’t refuse. Justicar passes Mind Shackle Scarab test. Both combatants whiff their attacks against each other, leaving them and the Purfiers deadlock.
Necrons
Damaged Doom Scythe and the characterless Necron Warrior squad returns to the board.
Second Overlord attach to a squad of Necron Warriors becomes available from reserves. They disembark on top of a wrecked Rhino near the Strike Squad's wrecked Rhino. Warriors passes their dangerous terrain tests.
Previous four flyers flies off the board.
A Night Scythe fires its Tesla Destructors at the Strikes. Eight hits and 2 Strikes killed. Tesla Arcs and hits nearby Purifier squad stuck in combat with the Overlord. It kills both the Psycannon and Justicar holding the Warding Stave.
Now the Overlord is free from the challenge!
Lord finishes off the last Purifier and consolidates close towards the Strike squad.
Turn 5:
Spoiler:
Grey Knights
We rolled for night fighting and it goes off.
Purifiers disembark from their transports. Empty Rhino pulls up next to the Strike squad, who hop in.
Strike Rhino attempts to move flat out, but jy2 fails his dangerous test. It become immobilize.
So much for a clean get away.
Jy2 fires all his psycannons into a single Night Scythe, but either he failed to glance/pen or I made its jink save. I think at one point he rolled three consecutive hits, but each one he rolls a 3 for penetration.
Necrons
Commence invasion! Four Doom Scythes re-enter the board and disembark troops. Two Night Scythes, that are already on the board, flies past the Strike Rhino and disembark Necron Warriors. Thanks to the 6” disembark range, Necron Warriors have the Strike Rhino almost completely surrounded. On top of that, both Necron Overlords are able to assault this turn.
Damaged Doom Scythe and two flyers flies off the board.
A Cryptek fires its Voltaic Staff at the Strike Rhino and wrecks it. Jy2 decides not to emergency disembark. 3 Strike Grey Knights disembark and positions the model holding the relic close to nearby Purifiers.
A Night Scythe fires its Tesla Destructors at the Strike squad, killing two Grey Knights. The model holding the relic drops it. Multiple unit gets hit by the Arc, dropping two Necron warriors. Another Tesla Destructor shoots and picks off a Purifier near the scoring Overlord. This time, Arc hits and kills 2 Necrons in
the back, three Necron Warriors in the second Over Lord’s squad, and a Purifier.
Combined shooting from other Warriors whittles away three Purifiers closest to the relic, leaving only the Justicar standing.
I rolled for WBB. Only 2 Necrons reanimate.
Scoring Overlord assaults a Purifer squad.
Second Overlord declares a charge against the lone Purifer with a hammer. Despite assaulting through difficult terrain, he rolls a 7 and just barely makes it.
None of the Overlords takes wounds from Overwatch.
Against the scoring Over Lord, hammer issues a challenge, which the Overlord is forced to accept. He fails his Mind Shackle Scarab test, and commits suicide.
Same thing happens to the solo Purifier. Overlord and three Necron Warriors wins combat and consolidates, blocking a Purifier squad from reaching the relic.
Purifiers in the back move and guns down three Necron Warriors. Solo Strike also shoots a Necron Warrior dead.
Rolled for WBB and all but one reanimate.
So far I'm winning in victory points. Neither side has control over the relic. I've scored first blood, my Warlord is still alive, and I killed the enemy's Warlord.
We rolled to see if the game continues and it does!
Turn 6:
Spoiler:
Grey Knights
Purifiers moves close to Cryptek squad closest to the relic. They gun down three Necron Warriors.
Two of them reanimate.
Purifiers assaults Cryptek and Necron Warriors. Necrons overwatch and kills a Purifier wielding a Psycannon
Justicar fails his dangerous terrain test. He trips and somehow impales himself with his hammer.
Solo Strike assaults Necron Warriors.
He attempts to cast Hammerhead, but suffers perils of the warp.
His brain explodes.
Combat draws between Cryptek and Purifers with both sides taking a casualty.
Psycannon Purifier fails Mind Shackle Scarab test and some how kill himself despite not having a force weapon. Purifiers manages to dent a wound off the scoring Overlord. Overlord strike back, killing one Purifer.
Purifiers assaults second Overlord and his Necron Warriors. Justicar issues a challenge, which the Overlord accepts.
Justicar dies, but Purifiers hacks two Warriors apart, winning combat. Fortunately the Necrons passes their leadership test.
Much to the Purifers' dismay, both Necron Warriors stand back up.
Necron Warrior in Cryptek’s unit doesn’t get back up.
Necrons
Damaged Doom Scythe and Necron Flyer comes returns to make another sweep.
Necron Warriors picks up the turtle and move towards jy2’s deployment zone.
Four flyers flies off the board.
Crypteks in the back fires their Voltaic Staff and wrecks the two remaining Rhinos.
In assault, Psycannon fails Mind Shackle Scarab and commits suicide. Necron Lord kills a Halberd. Purifiers chips a wound off him and kills a Necron Warrior. Combat draws.
Necron Warrior doesn’t stand back up
Lone Purifier cast Cleansing flame and wounds two Necron Warriors. They both make their saves. Purifer hacks down a Warrior, taking no wounds in return.
Cryptek passes moral test.
Scoring Lord finishes off the last Purifer and consolidates.
By now the Store was closing and we decided to end it.
Even had the game continues to turn 7, There’s noway jy2 can get the relic back.
Let's calculate the score!
Necrons: 5 Victory Points
+3 Necrons wins primary objective by holding the relic with a scoring unit.
+1 They score first blood thanks to the Doom Sycthe.
+1 Necron Overlord kills the Crowe the warlord
+0 We measured and it appears none of my Necron Warriors reach Grey Knight's objective.
Grey Knights: 0 Victory Points
+0 Grey Knights do not possess the relic.
+0 Did nore score first blood
+0 My scoring Overlord is still alive with 1 wound remaining.
+0 None of the Grey Knights are within the Necron's deployment zone.
Victory for Necron Airforce!
Post-Game Analysis
POST-GAME ANALYSIS:
Jy2:
Wow, that was quite an experience. The Necron airforce is strong. Real strong. With the ease of taking out most transports, it really does well against most mech lists. My poor grey knights with their AV11/12 vehicles just could not stand up to the shooting of the crons. Although they dominated in this game, I feel that this will not always be the case. I feel that a shooty grey knight army can compete, despite mine getting completely spanked this game (and by a novice necron player!). Why is this so? Because I feel that I lost this game only 1/3 through superior firepower/tactics, 1/3 via the dice and 1/3 via my own mistakes. As a matter of fact (ok, ok...actually a matter of opinion), had the dice been more average for me and had I not made some of the mistakes that I made, I believe the chances for the grey knights winning is more like 60-40 (I'd probably say necrons 60% win, grey knights 40% win...just my estimate).
Let's break down what led to the downfall of the grey knights and some of the mistakes that I made.
- Bunching up together. This is probably the biggest and most evident error on my part, as it allowed his doomscythes to do more damage than what they would probably normally do had I spread out. My concern here was for my own units to be within support range of each other. I also under-estimated the "reach" of the doomscythes with their 36" move. I was also hoping that SabrX wouldn't roll too high for his deathray distance, but each of the 3 times he fired them, I believe he got 12"-14" (average should be about 10.5").
- The dice. Not my best shooting game. Each unit of purifiers that shot puts up 8 psycannon shots. I would only average about 1-1.2 hits. Then I rolled poorly on the penetration rolls. There was a stretch where I fired 24 psycannon shots, only hit 3 times and rolled 3 3's to not even glance. My psyfleman, despite being twin-linked, couldn't hit jack.
- Tesla-destructors are just awesomesauce! Basically, each tesla-d that he fired incapacitated one of my vehicles. All he had to do was just glance 3 times and the vehicle would be down. And it's really hard to get cover from flyers. And it also helped that my opponent rolled well on the damage charts. Only maybe 2 or 3 times throughout the game when he penned, it was a shaken/stunned result. But mainly, he rolled higher on the damage charts.
- I moved too far up. I was hoping that would limit the maneurvability of his vehicles. Instead, it made it easier for his Overlord to assault and kill my units and for his doomscythes to hit multi-targets. In hindsight, I should have probably stayed behind and deployed more in a horizontal line.
- I forgot that heavy weapons could move and still fire. Since I was already shooting at flyers in Snapshot mode, I could have moved my guys and still shot with the Hvy 4 profile. I would have changed my strategy and spread out more had I been aware. So instead of sticking close together and staying still to fire, I could have spread and move as necessary and still be able to support my own units.
- I forgot that you couldn't assault after disembarking. Combined with being able to still shoot with heavy weapons, I should have disembarked my troops 1 turn earlier in anticipation of raping...I mean, dealing with his boss-man. Instead, I got gauss-raped (or maybe it was tesla-raped? ).
- SabrX's tactical play. Despite him playing necrons for only the very 2nd time (and flyers for the very first time), my opponent played very well. I was about to suggest that he moved his scythes and disembark his troops to surround my striker's rhino, but he did it by himself. He adapted very quickly to this army and didn't make any mistakes against me, whereas I made a bunch of mistakes that he exploited. I think my opponent may be a natural Necron player.
Despite the beating I took in this game, I've actually gained some confidence in my grey knights, because I feel that my knights can beat them. It won't be easy, but it is do-able. And now with a little more experience under my belt, the next time my knights face such an army, I guarantee that it will be a lot closer fight.
Me:
Necrons Airforce or any list that can cram in a lot of flyers is formidable in 6th ed. Alpha Strike grants a huge advantage as it almost guarantees first blood. Most armies can't counter an all flyers list. Those that do will be lacking to counter other armies. It's a rock-paper-scissors situation.
The Overlords performed well throughout the game. They are like one man armies, decimating anyone they get in combat with. I'm surprised both of them survived. Didn't have to roll a single ever-living roll.
Crypteks with Voltaic Staff are super effective against vehicles. Voltaic Staff has haywire special rule, so there's a high chance they'll glance to death whatever they are shooting at. AV14? No problem! Three glances will do the trick.
To be fair, jy2 was plague with bad luck throughout the game. Crowe fails Heroic Sacrifice, 2++ Warding Stave dies to Arc, Venerable Dread re-roll doesn't save it from penetration hit, a single turn shooting and flyers and not grounding a single one, failing dangerous terrain test on Rhino (which actually wasn't legal but neither of us knew at the time), most of the Justicars failing MSS test, and Justicar failing dangerous terrain test. Had Crowe and the Justicar with Warding Stave locked the Overlords in assault, the outcome of this game may have been very different.
While the Necron Airforce did sweep away the Grey Knights, there are some weaknesses. It's risky keeping Necron Warriors embarked and waiting for the last moment to go after objectives. The longer they stay in their transports, the more likely their transport could get shot down, forcing them to come in from the board edge. It's also a gamble because you don't know when the game will end. Tesla Destrcutors can also back fire and hit your own units. One major weakness to Necron Airforce is horde armies. Hordes can limit where flyers move. They can also sit on objectives and last it out. There's no way a small 5 Necron Warrior squad will push a fearless horde move off an objective at the last turn. Not unless you have an Overlord assault and try to draw them away.
I don't see the Necron Airforce being the most competitive army. Sure it will decimate any mech armies and has a lot of firepower to kill Deathstars, but it doesn't handle horde very well. It will struggle against blobs of guardmens, Green Tide, and Nids. I think a more balance Nids list with Overlords, Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, Necron Warriors in Night Scythes, and Doom Scythes is in a good position to handle most competitive lists.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/07/17 06:15:39
Carnage43 wrote:This is possibly the silliest battle I've read yet. Complete and utter cluster-#$%^ in the middle combined with flyer spam. Awesome.
We originally planned it to have an epic air battle between 9 Necron Flyers versus 5 Daemon Flyers.
However, jy2 was curious how one of the shootiest army fair against one of the hardest to hit armies.
BTW, IG could probably cram more flyers than Necrons, but it will be a nightmare moving flyer squadron flying bases in a 4' x 6' table. They are also limited to firing at the same target whereas the Necron's Doom Scythe and Tesla Destructors could hit multiple targets. Having said that, it is possible to ally IG and Necrons and cram in as much as 12 Flyers less than 2000 points. In fact I believe the minimum would be 1955 points. We'll need to borrow 3 additional flyers if we want to test this list.
IG (primary):
-1 CCS -2 Vet Squads
-3 x 3 Vendettas
Necrons (detachment):
-Overlord
-2 x 5 Warriors w/ Night Scythe
-1 Doom Scythe
Necron Primary and IG detachment would also have 12 flyers, but exceed 1999 points cap before another FoC.
In hindsight, I think pure Necron Flyers is more flexible rather than trying to max out flyers. There still needs to be a ground presence.
2000 pts
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
).