President Obama Speaks on Extending Tax Cuts for Middle Class Families

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**sirlynchmob**

Hey look Obama found his balls and is actually calling out the republicans on their BS.

From his speech on jul 9th.

my oppinion: He actually looks like he's a real president here who cares about the american people. either that, Or Its just a not so subtle threat to the richest 1% that if they don't stop supporting Romney and start giving him some cash, he'll cut their tax breaks should he keep the job.

**Jihadin**

Might be good since Obamacare raises 21 taxes it seems for the middle class

**Melissia**

Most of which will not effect the average voter in any meaningful way.

The only one that most will notice is the individual mandate-- which is, itself, $95 or 1% of income, whichever is greater. Many people will actually end up paying LESS by simply paying the mandate and dropping their health insurance.

**ShumaGorath**

Jihadin wrote:Might be good since Obamacare raises 21 taxes it seems for the middle class

While eliminating or modifying others and theoretically reducing insurance payments. The majority of the tax hikes are on premium insurance plans that only high earners can afford. The idea is to kill those plans entirely via the taxes. "He raised taxes!" is the most intellectually lazy BS conservative spin job this year. The entire point of the law set is to reduce the financial burden relating to healthcare on the middle class and below.

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Melissia wrote:Most of which will not effect the average voter in any meaningful way.

The only one that most will notice is the individual mandate-- which is, itself, $95 or 1% of income, whichever is greater. Many people will actually end up paying LESS by simply paying the mandate and dropping their health insurance.

That's the first year, the mandate goes to 2.5% shortly thereafter.

**Jihadin**

While the individual mandate tax gets most of the attention, the ObamaCare law actually contains 20 new or higher taxes on the American people. These taxes are gradually phased in over the years 2010 (with its 10 percent “tanning tax”) to 2018 (when the tax on comprehensive health insurance plans kicks in.)

Six months from now, in January 2013, five major ObamaCare taxes will come into force:

1. The ObamaCare Medical Device Manufacturing Tax

This 2.3 percent tax on medical device makers will raise the price of (for example) every pacemaker, prosthetic limb, stent, and operating table. Can you remind us, Mr. President, how taxing medical devices will reduce the cost of health care? The tax is particularly destructive because it is levied on gross sales and even targets companies who haven’t turned a profit yet.

These are often small, scrappy companies with less than 20 employees who pioneer the next generation of life-prolonging devices. In addition to raising the cost of health care, this $20 billion tax over the next ten years will not help the country’s jobs outlook, as the industry employs nearly 400,000 Americans. Several companies have already responded to the looming tax by cutting research and development budgets and laying off workers.

2. The ObamaCare High Medical Bills Tax

This onerous tax provision will hit Americans facing the highest out-of-pocket medical bills. Currently, Americans are allowed to deduct medical expenses on their 1040 form to the extent the costs exceed 7.5 percent of one’s adjusted gross income.

The new ObamaCare provision will raise that threshold to 10 percent, subjecting patients to a higher tax bill. This tax will hit pre-retirement seniors the hardest. Over the next ten years, affected Americans will pony up a minimum total of $15 billion in taxes thanks to this provision.

3. The ObamaCare Flexible Spending Account Cap

The 24 million Americans who have Flexible Spending Accounts will face a new federally imposed $2,500 annual cap. These pre-tax accounts, which currently have no federal limit, are used to purchase everything from contact lenses to children’s braces. With the cost of braces being as high as $7,200, this tax provision will play an unwelcome role in everyday kitchen-table health care decisions.

The cap will also affect families with special-needs children, whose tuition can be covered using FSA funds. Special-needs tuition can cost up to $14,000 per child per year. This cruel tax provision will limit the options available to such families, all so that the federal government can squeeze an additional $13 billion out of taxpayer pockets over the next ten years.

The targeting of FSAs by President Obama and congressional Democrats is no accident. The progressive left has never been fond of the consumer-driven accounts, which serve as a small roadblock in their long-term drive for a one-size-fits-all government health care bureaucracy.

For further proof, note the ObamaCare “medicine cabinet tax” which since 2011 has barred the 13.5 million Americans with Health Savings Accounts from purchasing over-the-counter medicines with pre-tax funds.

4. The ObamaCare Surtax on Investment Income

Under current law, the capital gains tax rate for all Americans rises from 15 to 20 percent in 2013, while the top dividend rate rises from 15 to 39.6 percent. The new ObamaCare surtax takes the top capital gains rate to 23.8 percent and top dividend rate to 43.4 percent. The tax will take a minimum of $123 billion out of taxpayer pockets over the next ten years.

And, last but not least...

5. The ObamaCare Medicare Payroll Tax increase

This tax soaks employers to the tune of $86 billion over the next ten years.

As you can understand, there is a reason why the authors of ObamaCare wrote the law in such a way that the most brutal tax increases take effect conveniently after the 2012 election. It’s the same reason President Obama, congressional Democrats, and the mainstream media conveniently neglect to mention these taxes and prefer that you simply “move on” after the Supreme Court ruling.

Seems like the wallet carrying a bullseye on it in 2013

**Testify**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
I don't like lecturing other countries, but you guys probably should be paying more taxes, especially if you want to keep your military the best in the world.

**Frazzled**

OK. Raise taxes on those making over $250,000 a year. Meh whatever.

Now that we've gotten yet another sideshow out of the way, what are you going to do AFTER FOUR YEARS to actually address the structural probloems with the economy Mr. President? Millions of unemployed people are listening.

**Melissia**

Frazzled wrote:OK. Raise taxes on those making over $250,000 a year. Meh whatever.

Now that we've gotten yet another sideshow out of the way, what are you going to do AFTER FOUR YEARS to actually address the structural probloems with the economy Mr. President? Millions of unemployed people are listening.

Let's be honest. Even if he did come up with a great idea, the Republicans wouldn't let him because it was proposed by Obama, which means it's evil™.

**d-usa**

These extensions would actually apply to everybody, irregardless of income. It doesn't just apply to everybody making less than $250,000, it applies to the first $250,000 for everybody.

I am sure there is some super awesome reason for wording it like it only applies to the middle class. But even the rich would get an extension.

**Melissia**

Because it is politically expedient.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:These extensions would actually apply to everybody, irregardless of income. It doesn't just apply to everybody making less than $250,000, it applies to the first $250,000 for everybody.

I am sure there is some super awesome reason for wording it like it only applies to the middle class. But even the rich would get an extension.

AND?

How does this help the economy?
Answer: it doesn't
Just like
"the war on women"
"class warfare speech circa 2010"
"gay marriage"

What are you going to do about the economy Mr/ President?

**Melissia**

Again, even if he did propose a stimulus package of some sort, what exactly do you expect the Republicans to do?

Hint: it has nothing to do with passing stimulus packages

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:Again, even if he did propose a stimulus package of some sort, what exactly do you expect the Republicans to do?

Hint: it has nothing to do with passing stimulus packages

There's your problem right there and why we are floundering. Stimulus is short term nonsense. We have deep structural problems in the economy. These problems will take focused efforts on a massive scale at the local, state, and national level. Stimulus, spending, none of that addresses those.

We need massive tax reform. We need massive fiscal reform. We need massive education reform. We need massive trade reform. We need massive spending reform. We need massive immigration (illegal) reform. We need massive international relation reform.

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Lets start this off. He can stop- campaiging for fifteen minutes.
1) Dust off the Simpson Bowles Recommendations on the Budget, and formally request its submission to both houses of Congress. Not the usual speech nonsense, but propose an actual law. IF SB doesn't address tax reform. restart the commission to do so. They get 90 days and their recommendations will have astraight up or down vote.

2) Through presidential executive order, Suspend the EPA from going through with its pending coal regulation for the remaining term of his office. Same to same for Salazar and reopen offshore development. Going forward the EPA would have to address cost benefit concerns before making new regulations.

3). Formerly request as part of 1 above 1) funds to raise the ICE budget by 5x; 2) funds and implementation of a national biometric ID; 3) mandatory implementation of the E verify process for all employers; 4) assimilation of all illegal aliens in the US after background check using normal immigration procdures and timelines; 5) raise minimum wage by $1.00

4) Create a similar commission on how to address structural economic and trade conditions similar to #1 above. They are to focus on ten things to do to improve conditions on a long term basis targeting middle class growth. topics include trade, education (including higher education and technical education - aka the German system), small and mid size busines growth.

Thats a start. I have more but then you'd have to vote for Frazzled.

**Jihadin**

We need a do over

**d-usa**

Reform = socialism.

Both parties are too focused on campaigning instead of doing their job. Republicans are foaming at the mouth and will do anything to stall Obama because he has the slight edge against Romney. Handing him a bill that would make him look good (because it is good for the country) is the last thing they want.

Democrats are going to avoid any significant bills as well because in the legislative races they are the party with something to loose. So any compromise bill would make democratic voters upset for caving in and still tick of republican voters and help people running against them.

Both parties have painted themselves into their respective corners, and they are more concerned with surviving the election than they are about us.

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Also: is Frazzled for amnesty? I am impressed.

**daedalus**

I might be crazy, but I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.

**Frazzled**

Yes you're crazy, and evidently you don't pay enough taxes.

Go to the DMV or local tax office. Try to regreister your car or something. then tell me you like to pay taxes.

**daedalus**

My biggest complaint with the DMV is the Kafkaesque method in which that it's handled locally. I understand that fees must be paid for registering and driving a vehicle. If they had an option that was twice as expensive, but done in a quarter of the time, I'd go with it every time. Time > Money for me. That's why I'm in this hobby.

**Testify**

Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:These extensions would actually apply to everybody, irregardless of income. It doesn't just apply to everybody making less than $250,000, it applies to the first $250,000 for everybody.

I am sure there is some super awesome reason for wording it like it only applies to the middle class. But even the rich would get an extension.

AND?

How does this help the economy?

Give a rich man $1m and he will buy a house, or invest in a business.
Give a thousand poor men $100 and they will buy goods and services with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

"Trickle down economics" is bollocks. One of the reasons western economies are stagnating is because we have allowed wealth to accumulate in the few, instead of being spent by the many.

**sirlynchmob**

Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Again, even if he did propose a stimulus package of some sort, what exactly do you expect the Republicans to do?

Hint: it has nothing to do with passing stimulus packages

There's your problem right there and why we are floundering. Stimulus is short term nonsense. We have deep structural problems in the economy. These problems will take focused efforts on a massive scale at the local, state, and national level. Stimulus, spending, none of that addresses those.

We need massive tax reform. We need massive fiscal reform. We need massive education reform. We need massive trade reform. We need massive spending reform. We need massive immigration (illegal) reform. We need massive international relation reform.

.

You sound like a democrat, Republicans are against all of that. Unless by education reform you mean make our kids dumber.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-07-06/news/sfl-ingrid-b-johanson-2012-gop-platform-spelled-out-in-texas-20120705_1_republican-platform-gop-platform-texas-gop

by international relation reform do you mean invade Iran?

by tax reform do you mean tax the middle class and cut taxes for the rich? Reform by holding the tax cuts for the middle class hostage til they ensure the republican donors get their tax breaks first?

what kind of reforms are you actually referring to? reform is just another way of saying change. But the real question becomes in which way should it be changed.

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d-usa wrote:These extensions would actually apply to everybody, irregardless of income. It doesn't just apply to everybody making less than $250,000, it applies to the first $250,000 for everybody.

I am sure there is some super awesome reason for wording it like it only applies to the middle class. But even the rich would get an extension.

They're called tax brackets, depending on which bracket you fall into is how much you pay in taxes. Every 10k is a bracket so its easy to cut taxes for some brackets and raise it for others.

**Frazzled**

Testify wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:These extensions would actually apply to everybody, irregardless of income. It doesn't just apply to everybody making less than $250,000, it applies to the first $250,000 for everybody.

I am sure there is some super awesome reason for wording it like it only applies to the middle class. But even the rich would get an extension.

AND?

How does this help the economy?

Give a rich man $1m and he will buy a house, or invest in a business.
Give a thousand poor men $100 and they will buy goods and services with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

"Trickle down economics" is bollocks. One of the reasons western economies are stagnating is because we have allowed wealth to accumulate in the few, instead of being spent by the many.

Funny though, when trickle down econmics was applied our GDP jumped to 6% (looks at current forecast) yea...its really bullocks.

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Senate works its magic again.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/jul/11/dems-block-obamas-tax-cut-bill/

Dems block Obama's tax-cut bill
Republicans, eager to put Senate Democrats on record on taxes, tried to force a vote Wednesday on President Obama's proposal to extend middle-class tax cuts but raise taxes for the rich, but Majority Leader Harry Reid objected, essentially sidelining the president's plan.

Sen. Mitch McConnell, Republicans' leader, tried to set up competing votes — one on the GOP's plan to extend all the tax cuts for one year, and another on Mr. Obama's proposal to extend them only for households making $250,000 or less.

But Mr. Reid objected to the request, saying he didn't want to have the vote on the GOP's legislation.

"It's the help Paris Hilton legislation," he said. "It would give people like her a tax break for doing nothing — $46 billion of the American people's money to help Paris Hilton and others."

Mr. McConnell said he was just trying to get senators on record so voters could see which senators supported the president and which supported the broader tax cut.

"The Senate should make itself clear which policy it supports. This is our chance to do it," he said.

The tax issue has become complicated for lawmakers. Some Democrats, including House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, have mooted a higher threshold for extending the tax cuts — up to $1 million in income.

Meanwhile, some Republicans say they're ready to embrace ending tax breaks in order to use the money to head off looming defense cuts, according to the Hill newspaper.

**Lynata**

Frazzled wrote:Funny though, when trickle down econmics was applied our GDP jumped to 6% (looks at current forecast) yea...its really bullocks.

In the current economy model, GDP should rise continuously, except during times of crisis. The interesting question is, does it raise as fast as it should/could?

Testify does have a point. Billions of dollars invested in stocks, diamonds or fancy cars and private jets won't create that many jobs.

**mattyrm**

daedalus wrote:I might be crazy, but I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.

I don't mind paying taxes either really, Its just what they get spent on that bothers me!

If every single penny of a raise went to clearing our debt, I would happily pay it. They could bump income tax up 10% tomorrow and I would happily take one for the team to make this nation solvent and influential again.

But it wouldn't, they would raise taxes, and it wouldl get spent improving gypsies camps, given to the DHSS for fat chav's to spend on Special Brew and fags, or get used to pay for a DVD for Ian fething Huntley.

I even hate ex-military people who endlessly complain about "not getting enough help" off the government. Labour started this pathetic spineless attitude in Britain, that you need the government to hold your fething hand all of your bastard life. Its the one aspect of the Republican manifesto I agree with (small government and fiscally conservative, except Bush obviously because he spent like a desperate gambler!)

They can kiss my fething arse. I dont want or need help, I just want to be left alone. If the time comes when I do need help, feth it ill wander off into the wilderness like the Indians used to do.

If you could opt out of tax and only pay ten percent and then utterly refuse any and all services (sign a waiver so you cant phone the police or fire department or have your bins emptied, use the NHS or claim any benefits) then I would fething do it. I don't need the government to hold my cock for me every day until I die, I don't phone the police even when I am a victim of crime, I can put my own fires out or watch it burn, empty my own garbage and Ill happily pay for private health/dental insurance.

**juraigamer**

Frazzled wrote:

What are you going to do about the economy Mr/ President?

You do realize that no one person can fix "The economy" Right? It takes effort by the people who spend money and the businesses to provide what the people want. If the economy needs a jump start, the spenders need to spend more, rather than save out of fear. The less goods and services that trade hands, the weaker the economy.

**Kilkrazy**

Frazzled wrote:Yes you're crazy, and evidently you don't pay enough taxes.

Go to the DMV or local tax office. Try to regreister your car or something. then tell me you like to pay taxes.

In the people's democratic republic of the UK you do it online and it takes a couple of minutes.

I don't know whether that is because our tax rate is higher or just because British people are better at doing government things.

**mattyrm**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Yes you're crazy, and evidently you don't pay enough taxes.

Go to the DMV or local tax office. Try to regreister your car or something. then tell me you like to pay taxes.

In the people's democratic republic of the UK you do it online and it takes a couple of minutes.

I don't know whether that is because our tax rate is higher or just because British people are better at doing government things.

Oh yeah.. feth me. I once forgot all about my car tax cos I was on deployment, and when I arrived back home I had 2 days left on my tax disc so went to the DVLA place nearest to me to pick one up.. the main one in Stockton. It was crowded, but I was in and out in ten minutes.

In Santa Barbara I went to the DMV with the missus to get another license.. it was fething unbelievable. We were inside for literally 2 hours and by the time we left I felt like I had just done 12 rounds with Muhammad Ali.

It was an emotional experience, and it amde me appreciate our merely incompetent DVLA staff!

**Jihadin**

2 hours? Lucky

**mattyrm**

Jihadin wrote:2 hours? Lucky

I think there are too many people in America.. that's the problem.

In the UK, gaks only gone downhill the last ten-fifteen years, a few million immigrants and a few million more babies and now we actually have queues for gak. When I was a teenager I dont recall having a queue for anything.. and even now, the worst traffic jam ive ever been in lasted twenty minutes. Seriously.. I told my missus if we ever move back I want to live somewhere like.. Kentucky, in a town with about 40 people in.

Have you ever been to California?! Or even.. mother of mercy.. actual LA?

When we were living in Covina, my missus worked in Pasadena and it was 14 miles to work. It used to take her 2 fething hours to get home!

I used to tell her mom "I can get to 6 different countries in two fething hours in my car!"

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Yes you're crazy, and evidently you don't pay enough taxes.

Go to the DMV or local tax office. Try to regreister your car or something. then tell me you like to pay taxes.

In the people's democratic republic of the UK you do it online and it takes a couple of minutes.

I don't know whether that is because our tax rate is higher or just because British people are better at doing government things.

Probably B. Here if you have to actually deal as a "customer" with the government, and not getting govenment money for something, you end up becoming a rabid "Destroys allgovmentz!!!" in about 18.7 seconds.

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Jihadin wrote:2 hours? Lucky

Indeed. Extremely lucky. I've been all day at the DMV before. After that I no longer feared hell.

**Grundz**

Melissia wrote:Most of which will not effect the average voter in any meaningful way.

Thats because the average voter doesn't make enough money to pay taxes to begin with anymore.