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So I apologize in advance - this might sound like a rant, but I am actually asking for advice. The past two games I've played have simply been boring and I'd like to know why.

In both games, I played a Tyranid army against a static gunline (very little movement and 100% focused on shooting). Every turn felt like I wasn't actually playing the game. Move my models up, fire a couple of shots, and then remove 20% of my army on his turn. Repeat. If I lose everything before I reach the opponent, then he wins (and I never really got to do anything). If even a fraction of my army reaches him, then I win (and my opponent feels like he can't do anything).

Is this a problem with Tyranids? A problem with gunline armies? Or a problem with me? Is there any way to play Tyranids vs Infantry Guard (for example) and have a fun, interesting game?

Of course, I mean no offense to anyone who enjoys a static gunline army. I just personally feel that those games involve little strategy (or at least in my games). The only thing I have to think about for 80% of the game is "am I in cover?" or "can I keep this unit out of range of that unit?". The only thing my opponent has to think about is what unit to shoot first.

There's no manuevering. There are no epic combats. There's very little interaction when you're taking your models off the table, for both players.

I'm starting to rant, so I'll stop here. Any suggestions? Thoughts? Advice?

Here's my question, why are you trying to shoot a gun line army with a non gun line army when you should be getting into melee?

juraigamer wrote:Here's my question, why are you trying to shoot a gun line army with a non gun line army when you should be getting into melee?

Because you can't get into melee on turn 1. My army didn't focus on shooting; it just happened to have some. And it was the only thing I could do other than move my models closer.

Perhaps outflanking? It sounds as if you're just walking more or less straight at a meat grinder situation.

Surprisingly there are tactics involved, mostly as target prioritisation. But, I know how boring it can be to deal with at times. You could probably make it harder for them to sort of trick their target prioritisation. Scary looking units for example, whether they actually are or not is less important, can tend to draw a bit more fire than they should; allowing the real threat to avoid some damage. Then I guess there's target saturation, which involves more skill.

You could have ran closer. Always run closer if they out gun you. Never EVER try to have a shooting fight with a superior shooting force.

Stick to cover, put your big bugs up front to screen for your little guys, and if you don't have many models on the table, that's already hurting you as nids are supposed to be a horde army, they can run small powerful units but that normally puts you half way to losing.

It also doesn't help that you are playing one of the bottom rung armies of the game right now against one of the top performing armies of the game, and also one that is its hard counter. For instance I foolishly consider Tau to be a hard counter to DE, despite DE being a top ranking army and Tau to be a bottom ranking one. Its nice when lower powered armies still have a chance (MAN do I live for a chance to pit my DE against a similarly skilled Tau player!)

But in this case? Nearly every odd is stacked against you. It could be worse. It could be a mobile gunline army, so that even when you make it to their deployment zone you still can't fight, because they've already left... :(

You should be looking into mobile units like Gargoyles and Mycetic Spores. Drop a couple large broods of Devilgaunts among his Guardsmen and shred them.

As for gunlines being boring, yeah. They are.

You should be looking into a game that doesnt involve boring gunlines.

Thanks for all the comments! However, just to clarify, the problem isn't about losing. In fact, those two games I played resulted in a win and a tie/loss (it likely would have ended in a draw, but I conceded because I wasn't having fun and didn't want to continue).

The problem was with playing a boring game. And it sounds like it's not just me...0 movement, 0 assaults, and a 20 minute shooting phase don't make the best games.

Well yes, IG are notorious for just sitting and shooting you. It's always boring fighting them. I would suggest using spores to drop things close to him if you want, but sadly as nids you just have to go get that gunline in range of your talons. Then it dies.

I'd tell him to switch up what he's doing or you aren't interested in playing. I wouldn't play with a boring opponent.

I play Horde Nids and gun line IG, (Except I advance with my guardsmen that aren't on an objective) but to me playing agenst a gun line army is fun with my Nidz. I have never had trouble reaching his/her gun lines. I run a tyrant with 2 guards, that draws a lot of fire, and I don't even need it to start out. Its main job is draw fire, if it reaches an enemy unit then cool but its not his job, and idk your point range but I have 50 Hormoguants in my list. 30man with TS AG and a 20 with TS.
Also you may want to look into a Trygon or 2, (one of the best units in the nids codex imho)

ps: Create a cinematic battle, to me a swarm of guants backed up by MCs and warriors/shrilkes, remind me of a Starship Troopers thing. In the nid dex there are some cool battle between IG and nidz, reenact someof those (with homebrew rules too).

His point isn't that he can't get into CC or win, it's that it's such a static battle it's not exciting which I understand. If your opponent doesn't moves and just fires away the whole time, you don't even need him. You could line up some IG and roll the dice yourself if they're never gonna move or do much. Kinda defeats the point of playing a game of strategy when it's reduced to a game of dice. Might as well just play craps.

Think about it this way, thats how it works in the fluff. IG and Tau do gunlines. Thats their thing.

If they tried to do a melee army against you, they'd lose. You'd hardly expect them to do that deliberatly.


Besides, isn't that how Nids and anyone else(besides orks) fight in the fluff? Endless swarms of Nids flying forward to choke the enemies guns with their bodies?

60mm wrote:I'd tell him to switch up what he's doing or you aren't interested in playing. I wouldn't play with a boring opponent.

I'd do something along these lines. Let him know you're not enjoying fighting against a static gunline. Failing this, try using some units that outflank or move quickly so he has to deal with closeby threats. Unfortunately you can't assault out of Outflank anymore (as someone who plays both shooting and close combat armies this bugs me) but if a squad of Genestealers shows up near his backfield, you bet he'll redirect attention towards them or, god forbid, move some models to get them closer/further away!

I dont use Tyranids, but i can tell you what i used to do againts my brother with orks, considering theyre both mob armies.
First, you need to makesure you utilize artillery. If you can outrange his gunlines, and drop a big template on them maybe, then hell take a lot of damage.
Make sure youve also got things trying to flank at all times. Like you said, if you can get a sqaud or two into close combat, hes finished. Try outflanking, infiltrate, etc.
In addition to that, your goal is to get your main troops and flankers close to his as soon as possible. That means utilize scout, run, and things like bikes, jump packs, etc. If you know you wont cause much damage shooting, run.
Thats, about all ive got, hope it helps.
Also, still havent got 6th ed, so bear with me if i got a few rules wrong.

You could use more deepstriking and outflanking. Make a dynamic entrance.

Try and make the board more interesting, with ways to sneak up through alleyways and open areas for rushing. Use a covert approach.

Tyranids versus a gun line is a very difficult match-up.

You can win, with good luck.

You need deep striking units, e.g. Trygon and Spods. You need them to come in at the right time and place. You need lots of cover to let your other units get close without too many casualties.

It is hard and you will, usually fail, but when you succeed the satisfaction is all the more.

Are you playing objective games or just annihilation? It sounds like your just playing an annihilation game, in this case, play with objectives to force more.... action.

As a man who typically plays artillery-and-infantry gunlines with a smattering of Vets, I have several suggestions based on what my Tyranid friend has done to infuriate me in hilarious ways.

Number one, drop a Carnifex right behind the gunline. Better yet, drop three.

Number two, spend few points on upgrades for the Hive Tyrant but buff it with all the Tyrant Guard you can AND wings to make it a FLYING monstrous creature. THEN throw in whatever you have fun using.

Number three... "Wait, what the... Somethin's wrong with the Sarge!" It may not be the most effective power but it's soooooo amusing, especially when my entire gunline gets completely f**ked up by a bunch of ripper babies lol.

Number four: Fly, fly, fly! If there's something that is annoying you, fly around and over it! I know you don't have the nice turbo boost of fast skimmers, but still. Flight of the Valkyrie is just as effective when the flying things are giant spore spewing bug monsters!

How do Nids beat, large units of squishy models that are clumped together? Mmm. Its on the tip of my tongue, starts with M... Mawlon? Malow? I can't place it lol.Mawlocs! They can be deep struck purposefully onto an enemy. Pick a large, bunched up blob, or an objective holding squad, or a Vehicle with AV10 rear. How well does his fire discipline hold up when 1-3 T6, W6, 3+ MC just showed up in his ranks, munching models upon entry, AND has the chance to disappear and repeat if they arn't killed.

Another option is a trygon and some Hive Guard or Zoans/Doom in reserve if there is an empty space. Deep Strike the Trygon, and Subterrainean assault will make sure you don't take perils. The Bioshock can kill off squishy guardsmen easy enough. Then the HG/ZT/DoM can crawl through and unleash Death.

Try deepstriking, flying MC's and outflanks.

PS- I beat a Gunline Platoon army on Monday by combining these tactics. I'll put it my list in a moment.


Hive Tyrant
Armoured Shell, HVC, HC, Toxic Miasma, Regen (I reckoned the large numbers of models would be good). Powers are either Leech Essence and Paroxysm, or any of the Biomancy powers. Iron Arm ( T7 is immune to lasguns and up to T9 is immune to pulse rifle) is epic. Enfeeble for T 2 humies. Endurance to keep you.in the fight. Leech Life to get ride of HWS, Battlesuits and light vehicles and keep you alive. Warp Speed is ok, but if you want Smite instead go for it. Haemoragge is great against T3, and rolling 5- means Sgts can be picked out or flamers

3 Warriors with 2 Deathspitters, VC, and STs. They are for sitting on an objective in the backfield and sniping Tau or Guard with the VC, which kills on 2+ with no armour.

2x 15 Gaunts with Deathspitters. One squad alongside Tyrant to rush objective, another in reserve

Trygon Prime with Regen.

Mawloc with Regen.




Hive Commander should hopefully get tge Trygon and Mawloc in on Turn 2, and pray for a 1 for the Gaunts. If the Gaunts come in early, use HC to outflank them and fire. Otherwise unleash the Trygon Bioshock to do stuff, run the Mawloc into a LoS blocking spot and rush forward. With any luck he'll be too distracted by the big bugs to worry about your Tyrant. With any luck you should be able to kill his Warlord in a Tyrant Challenge (unless they are superbadass CC monster) and get linebreaker by the end of the game, so you should claim at least 2 VP. That right there is a 1k list. As you go up points add more 1 more troop unit or make those that exist bigger, then add 1 more Mawloc followed by Harpies and Hive Guard. Your Trygon has 3 Smash attacks against vehicles, so taking down tanks shouldn't be hassle if it survives, and even then you can just send one or both Mawlocs against it. Or burrow them for another round.

So... you won one and draw/lost against another and your actual complaint is that your opponent's army is boring?

Well... too fething bad, really. That's a viable build for the IG, especially against horde-style armies. Line up all your guys in green and shoot the enemy as they advance. Keep shooting and, hopefully, they run out of guys before they get in your face. He could make it more "interesting" I suppose by dropping pie-plate artillery on your forces in your deployment zone, I suppose, and end the game by Turn 2, but that's not really what you're asking for, is it?

What? You want the IG to fix bayonets and charge your Tyranids? Are you fething mad? Or are you of the mindset that every IG tactic has to come from Chenkov's playbook?

The answer to your question, "how to have fun against a gunline" is "don't bring a CC-focused army". Bring your equivalent of armor, transports, your own shooty units, units that can act as las-sponges so your smaller units can close to melee. Bring your own gunline army, or something that can soak up his gunline fire while you move units into assault range. Outflank or focus your assaults on one end of his line, forcing him to either move his units (possibly into a vector of assault for a reserve unit or some bugs you've got hanging around in the back, waiting for this opportunity), or have a portion of his army sit out, twiddling their thumbs because your army is never in range. You're basically playing an army that is the dream opponent for a static gunline army.... hordes of small things that really can't do anything until they get into CC, but are never given that chance because his army is tailored to not allow it.

Like the others have posted, you need to change your strategy (and units) in order to force him into CC, because he's not likely to just waltz some blobs out to assault you out of kindness.

It's either a problem with nids or a problem with your tactics. I would like to point out that tyranids have no tanks (which I find weird) so you can't really smash them to pieces the way a predator would. So if you have any termagaunts ( I'd be very surprised if you didn't) just use them to soften the IG and then send in your CC dudes and such in diagonal lines at the opponents gun lines. Now, if your fighting tau, i'm sorry, but you are SCROOOOOOD!

LoganWolfborn wrote:I would like to point out that tyranids have no tanks (which I find weird)

?

Nids are 100% biomass who can do pretty much anything and create whatever they want out of that biomass, why would they need to build a tank?

Mawlocs are your friend, deepstrike them and knock massive holes in the enemy lines, and if they live another round burrow them and pop up again, fun to do with a pair of Mawlocs, and after the first one blows a hole in their line they will make sure to bring down the Mawlocs, which is what you want the enemy to do.

Gunlines are boring to play. Gunlines are boring to play against. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about your opponent fielding a gunline.

As basically everything is in your court, think about ways to make your own army more fun to play. Throw in fast units, like people have been saying, or just start playing a lot more aggressive and get everything into assault. It's going to be tough in 6th ed now, which made assaulting a fair bit worse, but it's still doable.

If your problem is that you're LOSING to a gunline, then just learn now to handle gunlines. There are probably mistakes that you're making on the field, and it's a lot more difficult to make mistakes with gunlines, which will put you at a disadvantage. Once you are able to take apart gunlines though, it's fun to crush your opponent's stupid boring list...

Ailaros hit the nail on the head. Gunlines are boring but your oppoenent is not likely to change so you need to makes things different.

First is to play more objective games, if sitting back in his own deployment zone can't net him a win he's going to have to learn to play a more dynamic game and heaven forbid even advance.

Second you can use an army that that plays a little off the central axis of advance, Ymgarls, rapid refused flanks, lots of outflankers (you may not be able to charge first turn you arrive except Ymgarls but with Hive Commander it's a 2+ for reserves and deploying 50% of your army on one of his flanks in his deployment zone will certainly mix things up.

At the moment it just sounds like a wave of Nids slogs across the board and slams into a line of Guard, which can be fun every now and then but is boring on repeat. A number of people have made suggestions to spice up your games, give a couple a try and see if you can't unentrench your guard buddy to play a more entertaining game.

I don't know the current nid codex, though my thoughts would be lob a load of mycetic spores at him - force him to move or to shoot something other than your units.

And get one of those big burrowing monstrosities, pop up behind him. When he splits fire in 2 directions, you jump in an swamp him.

Think Starship Troopers (particularly the second one). The nids did gak all when they were coming from one direction, but surrounding them...?

Tasty.

aybe some planet strike missions too. Have him as defender and you get a mega bio-laser of some sort to open the game with and create a massive hole in his gun line.