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Hey ya'll. Now that I've gotten a couple of 6th ed games under my belt, I want to try out fortifications with my army.

The Aegis Defense line seems like an incredibly good buy for the points, so I'm going to run some potential configurations by you guys. (I'm playing Blood Angels, but these really would work for any SM chapter)

Icarus Lascannon + 7 devastators w/ 4 missile launchers
247 points

I feel like this is some serious anti-vehicle firepower for the points, especially considering with the sergeant's signum one dude could fire the Icarus at BS5. Combine with a techmarine somewhere else on the field to reinforce the cover save to 3+, and you opponent would have to knock out 2 marines before your firepower even starts to get dented. Deploy this as far back as possible to take full advantage of the 48"-96" range on the heavies, and to make sure he can't just spray you with short range small arms fire to make you start failing those 3+ saves.


Quad-gun + 8 scout snipers w/ one missile launcher and camo cloaks
248 points

I feel like this would be better at actually taking down non-monstrous creature fliers, at the expense of some anti-heavy vehicle/infantry punch. Camo cloaks can give these guys a 2+ save with a techmarine which is nuts, your opponent would have to waste so much firepower to take these guys down. Also that quad-gun seems like it would be great for compensating for the scouts' crappy BS3.


Icarus Lascannon + Techmarine w/ 2 servo arm serivtors & 2 plasma cannon serivtors.
255 points

Deploy this base to base with an auto/las predator. Let the techmarine shoot the icarus, unless he has to repair the tank, then one of the servitors can shoot the thing (albeit at BS3). I feel like with the hull point rules being what they are he'd be doing a lot of repairing. 2 plasma cannon shots and a lascannon shot a turn is more firepower than your opponent should be able to ignore, but he'd have to chose to waste his long range firepower on models with a 3+ cover save, and ignore the tank in the process.


Icarus Lascannon + Techmarine
115 points

Is this dumb? I know 115 points for a single lascannon shot is way overpriced, but maybe not with the increased range and skyfire? Also the techmarine could potentially make emergency repairs on landspeeders that have had their multimeltas or hull points shaved off, and the lines themselves could act as a convenient rally point for troops that are doubling back to grab objectives or attack deep strikers / swooping fliers / out-flankers, etc.



Anyone try any configurations like these? How did they work out for you?

I feel like the main weakness of any of these setups is you basically have a 250 point infantry squad that is very point-appropriately damage resistant to shooting, but super vulnerable to assault by swooping monstrous creatures or out-flankers, but my army has so many fast jump pack guys that doubling back to get guys trying to sneak behind me has never been a real issue.

I am theory crafting as well, but I already run 3 Devestators+scouts+techmarine+priest combo as a BA player... this seems like a no brainer issue.

Cover that you can place where you want with a skyfire weapon attached... win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
** I think the key thing to remember as a BA player with devastators is placing them as center to the map as possible to have maximum field of fire + protection from flanking (which cant assault the same turn they come on).

Better yet, run a thunderfire cannon in there with the dev squad, it may be a case of putting your eggs in one basket, but you get a free techmarine to bolster the cover

I thought techmarines have been FAQ'd to not be able to bolster fortifications?

Sethorly wrote:I thought techmarines have been FAQ'd to not be able to bolster fortifications?

That is correct, so no 3++ save behind the Aegis

tedurur wrote:

Sethorly wrote:I thought techmarines have been FAQ'd to not be able to bolster fortifications?

That is correct, so no 3++ save behind the Aegis

Unless you wrap the aegis around some ruins which the TM has bolstered.....

Lordhat wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Sethorly wrote:I thought techmarines have been FAQ'd to not be able to bolster fortifications?

That is correct, so no 3++ save behind the Aegis

Unless you wrap the aegis around some ruins which the TM has bolstered.....

I thought you had to set up fortifications before terrain....

-Myst

Ahhhh, I didn't know that part about techmarines not being able to bolster fortifications, that blows, unless, as somone pointed out, you wrap them around ruins that are already there.

And Blood Angels get no thunderfire cannon for some reason, so the shootiest we can make our techmarines is 2 heavy weapon servitors

Well, I'm going to try this with the devastator squad and the icarus in battle probably next week, we'll see how it goes.

I have run my Nid aegis line with a quad-gun, 2 Hive Guard, 1 venomthrope, a Prime with LW/BS (attached to the venomthrope) and a brood of 2 Biovores.
The prime provides synapse and an additional gunner. The venomthrope is used as a gunner and to make anyone who charges the line take a dangerous terrain check) while the rest just shoot indirectly, so I have fewer LOS issues.

Not to thrilled with the quad-gun. I think I like the ILC a bit better. People keep talking about keeping an OA tyrant near for rerolls, but I would rather have him out the wrecking face.

I thought NIds were not allowed to man guns. I have no idea where this is covered, but more than one Nid player has griped about this being true.

Mysticaria wrote:

Lordhat wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Sethorly wrote:I thought techmarines have been FAQ'd to not be able to bolster fortifications?

That is correct, so no 3++ save behind the Aegis

Unless you wrap the aegis around some ruins which the TM has bolstered.....

I thought you had to set up fortifications before terrain....

-Myst

You are correct.

The biggest deal with Aegis defense lines is that they can give cover to vehicles. They easily cover 25% of a facing from ground level.

Green is Best! wrote:I thought NIds were not allowed to man guns. I have no idea where this is covered, but more than one Nid player has griped about this being true.

Popular misconception do to two rules with very similar sounding names and rules. Nid FAQ says we can not fire manually fire Emplaced Weapons (HB, fragstorm launcher and TL ILC). Nids have no restriction on firing Gun Emplacements (Quad-gun and ILC).

Rules for Emplaced weapons are in the fortification section. Rules for Gun Emplacements are in Battlefield Debris. What weapons count as GE or EW are listed on each fortification.

I was reading through the rules the other night and realized that it says "Up to 4 long and 4 short" when it comes to the pieces.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I make it just large enough to house a quadgun and a squad with no room for anything else to fit inside, could I not get assaulted because of the inability to get in base-to-base contact with my models?

No, because the rules for battlefield debris say that models are base to base if they assault over them and there isn't room to fit them.

Walnuts wrote:And Blood Angels get no thunderfire cannon for some reason, so the shootiest we can make our techmarines is 2 heavy weapon servitors

You could use allied SM and paint them as BA

edbradders wrote:

Walnuts wrote:And Blood Angels get no thunderfire cannon for some reason, so the shootiest we can make our techmarines is 2 heavy weapon servitors

You could use allied SM and paint them as BA

Haaah, I honestly hadn't thought of doing that. Might have to make a squad of blood ravens or something.

I have done this.
One line, Marines with plasma cannon
then another line, Multi melta marines manning the quad gun.
Infantry can get close w/o getting blown to bits, neither can vehicles wo getting close

I am going to try a BT Terminator Marshall with command squad, 2 cyclone launchers and tank hunters with the quad-gun to take down my buddie's night-scythes.
Marshall will use the quad-gun (BS5) and I get to re-roll the AP. Should hurt...

Slightly off topic - but how long are the sections? I want to model a Dark Eldar equivalent and build a quad gun using all my left-over Dissies

Just don't want to do myself out of cover by making it too short or be accused of cheating by making it too long

thanks, C_C

Here's the image from GW's site, to give you an idea of the scale. It says in the description that the defense lines are 28" long, and that you get four long pieces and four short pieces. The long pieces are about 4" long and the short pieces are about 2" long, the math works out. The height clearly varies from waist high to head high with vision slits. If somebody were to convert their own defense lines, I'd be pretty cool with them as long as they roughly matched those dimensions.

I made mine out of cardboard, 'cause I want to test them out in battle before I drop actual scrilla on the GW kit, and my sections are basically that long and waist high on the marines, since making the higher sections with the vision slits seemed like kind of a pain in the ass.


Also, for the people talking about deploying the aegis defense line around a techmarine reinforced ruin to get access to the gun battery along with a 2++/3++ save, I know you deploy fortifications first, buuuut, if you deployed your defense line nice and spread out, and then deployed a ruin direcly behind or enclosed by it, that would probably work, right?

OK thanks for that, although I would have said the long pieces were 5" (4 x 5" = 20") and the shorter were 2" (4 x 2"= 8") for a total of 28" looking at the relative sizes on the picture.

I can't see why it might be an issue to scratch-build (as long as they are the right size) even for a tourney. Do GW really want orks hiding behind pre-cast Imperial structures instead of 'lotz ov bitz 'ammered togevver'? Or Eldar defence lines not being gracefully curved (and covered in spikes for DE ) instead of the harsh angles of human design?

I suppose the only thing might be if GW plans to produce race-specific fortification kits with each new codex...


Anyway, back OT I agree if you are following the terrain placement rules in the book there would be nothing to stop you sticking a ruin in contact with the back of your aegis during deployment to pull techmarine shenanigans. It just seems like more effort than I would care to put in to a strategy (given that for a lot of pick up games and virtually all tourneys you won't get to place your own terrain anyway)

My Eldar defense line is clear plastic cut from the packaging on templates and gamer's edition dice. I cut them in a parabolic shape and will paint them with an air brush, going back over them with a regular brush to add lightning effects. Theyre based on the DoW PC game shields the Guardians had.

I plan to run them with 5 Fire Dragons w/ and Exarch with Crack Shot and Tank Hunters. With him shooting a Quad Gun I'm rerolling 2s to hit, rerolling armor penetration and denying cover saves. That should make short work of most flyers =D

Why Fire Dragons? Surely Dark Reapers is a better choice as they have long range stand-off weaponry, you can still get Crack Shot (and Fast Shot, which if it works on the quad gun or even better an ILC would be awesome - I'm at work so I can't check this out)

With the dragons everyone apart from the exarch will be stuck out of range for the entire game (unless someone is dumb enough to walk up to within 12") Seems like a lot of points invest in a unit that won't do much.

Why not take a unit of Pathfinders as well, stick them and the Reapers behind an Aegis and there's not much they couldn't make a serious dent in

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Why Fire Dragons? Surely Dark Reapers is a better choice as they have long range stand-off weaponry, you can still get Crack Shot (and Fast Shot, which if it works on the quad gun or even better an ILC would be awesome - I'm at work so I can't check this out)

With the dragons everyone apart from the exarch will be stuck out of range for the entire game (unless someone is dumb enough to walk up to within 12") Seems like a lot of points invest in a unit that won't do much.

Why not take a unit of Pathfinders as well, stick them and the Reapers behind an Aegis and there's not much they couldn't make a serious dent in

Fire Dragons are questionable here. I'd mount them in a Serpent that could dismount them where they would be needed.

Dark Reapers and Pathfinders are a nice combo to stick behind an ADL. However, care has to be taken that the enemy cannot charge them.

Fire Dragons mostly because you get both Tank Hunters and Crack Shot. If I'm not mistaken, you have to choose which you use if you have Crack Shot and Fast Shot. But they're also cheaper than Reapers and my Heavy Slots are already full.

The list with these in it does have an empty transport available for them if they need it. It also has Rangers and a Farseer to shoot the Quad Gun if I need them. But with the Quad Gun's S the way it is, I think Tank Hunters is a great bet if you need to shoot down Storm Ravens.

I'm running a slightly evil combination in a doubles event I'm going to shortly; I'm running an Aegis Defence Line, and my ally is taking a unit of ten Grots to boost its BS and to act as a scoring unit.

I'm pretty sure that the Grots are simply too small to be seen behind the line...

Chimera_Calvin wrote:OK thanks for that, although I would have said the long pieces were 5" (4 x 5" = 20") and the shorter were 2" (4 x 2"= 8") for a total of 28" looking at the relative sizes on the picture.

Whoopsth. This is what happens when I do math in my head at four in the morning.

dnanoodle wrote:Fire Dragons mostly because you get both Tank Hunters and Crack Shot.

Exactly. A Fire Dragon exarch is firing a quad gun at BS 5, re-roll hits, Str 7, re-roll wounds and armour penetration, and ignores cover.

They are the best artillery gunners.

Okay, so I read the thread where people were talking about mass flier necron and guard lists and now I'm real scurred.

I'm thinking one aegis line might not be enough, might also need a hydra flak.

A guard detachment is a surprisingly cheap army addition, take a squad of penals for 70pts and have them bum rush some objective on a remote corner, take your hydra for 75pts aaaand then


how about a command squad in the aegis manning an icarus w/ camo cloaks, master of ord, and a lascannon?

That's one huge damn pie plate of ordnance death, 3++ saves, and two lascannon shots that you can twin link if they're going at vehicle/monstrous creatures, or force cover re-rolls if going at infantry.

And there'd be enough room left in the aegis to have a combat squad or something hold a point. How's that for 205 points? Too much?