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I must be missing something,I cannot find the rules that state that the storm talón can go into hover mode. Can someone verify this for me? And are we still supposed to use the white dwarf rules? Because it lists the stormtalon as a skimmed in the magazine

The Stormtalon doesn't have the Hover type, so it can't use the Hover rules. It does, however, have Hover Strike. The rules for Hover Strike are indeed in the White Dwarf.

The Space Marine FAQ says to ignore the unit type of the Stormtalon in the White Dwarf and use the one in the appendix of the BRB instead.

It cannot Hover, instead in can Hover Strike. Which is in some ways worse. It can't move at all in Hover Strike mode(so no Jink save) but it gains +1BS and Pinning.

Alright, thanks. Also if a stormtalon does a hover strike, is it still considered hard to hit? The flyers rules say dooming fliers must move 18"

If its using Hover Strike, it isn't Zooming. Its Hover Striking.

Grey Templar wrote:If its using Hover Strike, it isn't Zooming. Its Hover Striking.

Just want to clarify this for myself. So if a stormtalon is hover striking, enemy models will be able to use their full BS when firing at it in the next player turn?

Yes.

Well crap, here I thought since it kept the hover strike rule it could still over. Oh well, now I know.

It would have to change modes to hover strike. You couldn't say it was still zooming thus retaining hard to hit while hover striking because doing so would instantly destroy the model. If it is in zoom flying mode, it must move a minimum of 18". Obviously it's not doing that in hover strike, thus it is no longer a zooming flyer and loses the hard to hit rule.

Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

jms40k wrote:Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

So it gets Jink then? I know Grey Templar said "no" but this would lead me to the conclusion that it does get it.

Falco wrote:

jms40k wrote:Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

So it gets Jink then? I know Grey Templar said "no" but this would lead me to the conclusion that it does get it.

You have to move to claim a jink save

grendel083 wrote:

Falco wrote:

jms40k wrote:Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

So it gets Jink then? I know Grey Templar said "no" but this would lead me to the conclusion that it does get it.

You have to move to claim a jink save

Ah, Thank you. I am thinking they added the "as a skimmer" for purposes of being shot at and assaulted.

Falco wrote:

grendel083 wrote:

Falco wrote:

jms40k wrote:Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

So it gets Jink then? I know Grey Templar said "no" but this would lead me to the conclusion that it does get it.

You have to move to claim a jink save

Ah, Thank you. I am thinking they added the "as a skimmer" for purposes of being shot at and assaulted.

That is exactly why they did it.

I recently used hoverstrike to max effect against nids, positioned in the furthest corner and hovered, missiled the crap out of the nid sporning lumps he brought on and he couldn't do a thing!

A successful hover strike should remind you of true lies.

I haven't got my book with me. Can you hover strike and still retain skyfire?

Yes, the ability to Skyfire is an inbuilt ability all flyers posess. Stormtalons are still Flyers, even in Hoverstrike mode. The same goes for any Flyer that can Hover, they never cease to be a Flyer.

grendel083 wrote:

Falco wrote:

jms40k wrote:Even more strongly, hover strike explicitly states that it should be considered a skimmer.

So it gets Jink then? I know Grey Templar said "no" but this would lead me to the conclusion that it does get it.

You have to move to claim a jink save

I don't have my book in front of me but don't skimmers have jink built in reguardless of movement? If they flat out its a 4+?

No, they have to move to get the Jink save and if they Flat Out the save improves to 4+. Hoverstrike explicitly stays you can't move.

Goat wrote:
I don't have my book in front of me but don't skimmers have jink built in reguardless of movement? If they flat out its a 4+?

Jink on BRB page 38 wrote:A model with this special rule that has moved in it's movement phase gets a 5+ cover save until the start of it's next movement phase.

So you have to have moved in the movement phase to claim a jink cover save and if you move flat out it is upgrade from a 5+ to a 4+.

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, the ability to Skyfire is an inbuilt ability all flyers posess. Stormtalons are still Flyers, even in Hoverstrike mode. The same goes for any Flyer that can Hover, they never cease to be a Flyer.

This is not true; Will everybody please stop claiming this.

The Stormtalon is no longer a flyer when it hoverstrikes.

Hoverstrike itself, and the ability to return to being a Flyer is listed in the Hoverstrike rule: "If it does so*, it changes it's type to skimmer until the start of it's next Movement phase and cannot move(though it can pivot on the spot)"

*Chooses to hoverstrike

Hover mode is similar; when a Flyer s\chooses to use hover mode it becomes a fast Skimmer until the beginning of its next movement phase when the rule that makes it not a flyer tells you to decide whether it is a flyer or not(Hoverstrike is just way more specific about it).

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, the ability to Skyfire is an inbuilt ability all flyers posess. Stormtalons are still Flyers, even in Hoverstrike mode. The same goes for any Flyer that can Hover, they never cease to be a Flyer.

This is not true; Will everybody please stop claiming this.

The Stormtalon is no longer a flyer when it hoverstrikes.

Hoverstrike itself, and the ability to return to being a Flyer is listed in the Hoverstrike rule: "If it does so*, it changes it's type to skimmer until the start of it's next Movement phase and cannot move(though it can pivot on the spot)"

*Chooses to hoverstrike

Hover mode is similar; when a Flyer s\chooses to use hover mode it becomes a fast Skimmer until the beginning of its next movement phase when the rule that makes it not a flyer tells you to decide whether it is a flyer or not(Hoverstrike is just way more specific about it).

So can skyfire or not?

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, the ability to Skyfire is an inbuilt ability all flyers posess. Stormtalons are still Flyers, even in Hoverstrike mode. The same goes for any Flyer that can Hover, they never cease to be a Flyer.

This is not true; Will everybody please stop claiming this.

The Stormtalon is no longer a flyer when it hoverstrikes.

Hoverstrike itself, and the ability to return to being a Flyer is listed in the Hoverstrike rule: "If it does so*, it changes it's type to skimmer until the start of it's next Movement phase and cannot move(though it can pivot on the spot)"

*Chooses to hoverstrike

Hover mode is similar; when a Flyer s\chooses to use hover mode it becomes a fast Skimmer until the beginning of its next movement phase when the rule that makes it not a flyer tells you to decide whether it is a flyer or not(Hoverstrike is just way more specific about it).

So...it loses Flyer, Hover then when it becomes a fast skimmer? The reason I say this is because if it's only a fast skimmer it can't be a flyer, hover type and if it doesn't have that type "all the time" then you can't choose to go back because it's not a flyer, hover anymore.

Kevin949 wrote:So...it loses Flyer, Hover then when it becomes a fast skimmer?

No, because it didn't have the Hover rule to begin with.


Stormtalons do not use the Hover mode rules from the rulebook. They have their own Hover Strike rule.

Lobukia wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Yes, the ability to Skyfire is an inbuilt ability all flyers posess. Stormtalons are still Flyers, even in Hoverstrike mode. The same goes for any Flyer that can Hover, they never cease to be a Flyer.

This is not true; Will everybody please stop claiming this.

The Stormtalon is no longer a flyer when it hoverstrikes.

Hoverstrike itself, and the ability to return to being a Flyer is listed in the Hoverstrike rule: "If it does so*, it changes it's type to skimmer until the start of it's next Movement phase and cannot move(though it can pivot on the spot)"

*Chooses to hoverstrike

Hover mode is similar; when a Flyer s\chooses to use hover mode it becomes a fast Skimmer until the beginning of its next movement phase when the rule that makes it not a flyer tells you to decide whether it is a flyer or not(Hoverstrike is just way more specific about it).

So can skyfire or not?

Me thinks not.
Seems like no real reason to ever use Hover Strike really. Too many downsides just to get 1 extra point of BS.

40k-noob wrote:

Me thinks not.
Seems like no real reason to ever use Hover Strike really. Too many downsides just to get 1 extra point of BS.

Agreed. But it can save you from flying off board or too far away from something you need to die.

insaniak wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So...it loses Flyer, Hover then when it becomes a fast skimmer?

No, because it didn't have the Hover rule to begin with.


Stormtalons do not use the Hover mode rules from the rulebook. They have their own Hover Strike rule.

Oh, I'm not commenting on hover strike, I don't know that rule. I'm strictly speaking of Flyer, Hover. It's clear, from what others have said, how Hover Strike works in that it's stated it's only for one turn.

However, I'm still of the opinion that just because something is treated as a skimmer for one round doesn't mean it's not also still a flyer. Besides, it doesn't say it is changed to a skimmer, simply that it's treated as one. It must, somehow, retain the Flyer, Hover 'type' on some level.

Hover is the rule that allows the Flyer to become a Fast skimmer.

So since the Hover rules tell you to choose your type at the beginning of each movement phase, and that you are only a fast skimmer when you are hovering; then you default back to a flyer with Hover at the beginning of each movement phase.

Kevin949 wrote:
Besides, it doesn't say it is changed to a skimmer, simply that it's treated as one.

Except:

Hover Strike: ... If it does so, it changes its type to Skimmer until the start of its next Movement phase and cannot move...