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Hey, so cruising these forums and reading lexicanum, seems like there's a "noble" aspect to Khorne that I haven't seen much of in the fluff.
In Gaunt's Ghosts they fight against khornites often, but on the battlefield so there's not much room for nobility. Traitor General explored it a bit, though not as much as I would have liked.
So what fluff source show the more "noble" aspect of Khorne?

I do not think that Khorne has a "noble" aspect. Khorne cares about blood and violence, not how it is produced. As such, Khorne will generally like both two honourable gentlemen dueling each other with florettes as well as two feral barbarians hacking each other to bits with huge axes. He'll just like the latter two a bit more because their actions produce more blood, and more violence.

In a way, it's like people would say the Imperium has a "caring" aspect just because it takes care of some orphans in the Schola Progenium. The Imperium doesn't actually care about these orphans, the Imperium wishes to form them into loyal and capable servants to the Throne, as the Imperium's actual goal is order (as a means to ensure the mankind's survival).

The big difference in both cases is that just like the Imperium will sport individuals who actually do care, Khorne too will have a few followers who actually are noble and honourable. At least for a while, for the corrupting influence of the Chaos Gods and their daemons has a tendency to twist their followers and mold them into something more in line with the respective God's actual goals. It's all a matter of influence.

I'm sorry that I cannot answer your actual question regarding fluff examples for honourable Khornate cults, but I am sure that there are some. Another dakkanaut will likely be able to pitch in regarding this.

A pretty big aspect of Khorne is martial prowess, rather than just bloodletting IIRC, which is probably about as close to noble as it gets...

Testify wrote:Hey, so cruising these forums and reading lexicanum, seems like there's a "noble" aspect to Khorne that I haven't seen much of in the fluff.
In Gaunt's Ghosts they fight against khornites often, but on the battlefield so there's not much room for nobility. Traitor General explored it a bit, though not as much as I would have liked.
So what fluff source show the more "noble" aspect of Khorne?

The old Realm of Chaos books Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned explored that all four chaos gods have a noble side and outcome to their resume.

Khorne's is Martial Prowess, it can be compared to Samurai bushido or the Predator's rules about worthy prey to take on. It's about self discipline and dedication. Khorne's champions don't skulk or throw spells, they march out and seek the biggest baddest badass the other side has and seek to take that leader or champion on. I remember some fluff where a Khorne champion is walking through a fallen city and sneers in disgust at the beastmen who are torturing and killing the townsfolks as such should be beneath them and, having passed higher onto Khorne's true path, the Champion sees the leader of the beastmen killing old villagers and, flying into an incensed rage at the unsuitable offerings the beastman was making to his Lord, killed the beastman leader in Khorne's name. Purity of Purpose.

Tzeentch's is Ambition, climbing the ladder and seeking to better your position, constantly able to change and adapt in the face of adversity. Always Evolving.

Nurgle's is Defiance, resisting change and surviving adversity in spite of it all. Able to Endure.

Slaanesh's is Self Perfection, taking on any and all experiences and using what you take to become a more perfect being. Love of Self.

If you find blood and murder to be noble, then that's it.

I think the Chaos Gods in general, while being spectrums of emotions, are those emotions taken to extremes and twisted around in ways that become harmful. Tzeentch for instance is the god of hope, and that hope is used to manipulate worlds and individuals into doing crazed thing. Slaanesh is the god of pleasure, and its followers are eventually forced into more and more savage acts to experience any kind of feeling at all.

Khorne has a sense of "honor" in that he'd prefer to kill a strong, armed opponent in 1 on 1 hand-to-hand over a baby or whatever, but that's really where it ends.

It basically comes down to the old 'Khorne cares not from where the blood flows'.

If you're a highly skilled swordsman gracefully hacking your way through the enemy, or an outright blood crazed killed murdering your way through the enemy, Khorne is happy.

The problem is GW are reluctant to explore anything outside of the berserker stereotype, likely because it's just easier to do.

There was some very old fluff (RT/2nd) which simply may not be canon at this point but a Bloodletter would yield its weapon to an unarmed opponent or Khorne would send a Bloodletter after Cultist who would offer the unworthy skulls of the weak, young, or old, to him. Khorne was always about blood and skulls but it was more about warfare and martial prowess than just slaughter.

ntin wrote:There was some very old fluff (RT/2nd) which simply may not be canon at this point but a Bloodletter would yield its weapon to an unarmed opponent or Khorne would send a Bloodletter after Cultist who would offer the unworthy skulls of the weak, young, or old, to him. Khorne was always about blood and skulls but it was more about warfare and martial prowess than just slaughter.

This is fairly obsolete. Bloodletters today are screaming maniacs that kill everything in sight. 4th Ed Daemon Codex has a passage about Bloodletters herding civilians into cages then bringing them out to be executed by beheading, one by one. Thousands died this way.

"The Blood God does not care from whom the blood flows, so long as it does."

Older fluff made Khorne more noble. Nowadays, him and his followers are just mindless berserkers.

Real shame, I absolutely love the 'honourable blood knight' archetype.

Fafnir wrote:Older fluff made Khorne more noble. Nowadays, him and his followers are just mindless berserkers.

Real shame, I absolutely love the 'honourable blood knight' archetype.

Since its all canon and none of it is canon this is the interpretation i choose to use.

Fafnir wrote:Older fluff made Khorne more noble. Nowadays, him and his followers are just mindless berserkers.

Real shame, I absolutely love the 'honourable blood knight' archetype.

It's a shame and I whole-heartedly agree with you. While blood-crazyed berserkers are fun and all, there's already enough of that in the 40k universe as is (look at the Blood Angels and their Successors, for example)
I think the 'nobility' aspect of Khorne comes from the fact that he and his followers are first and foremost, warriors beyond anything else. And with being a warrior comes a certain code of conduct that can be construed as honourable and noble, such as only fighting those worthy (i.e., not picking on the weak and infirm because they just do not put up a good fight), seeking out champions to fight, and have a general disdain of 'lesser' forms of combat, i.e., magic, skulking around all cloak and daggers-like. So while devotees of Khorne eventually devolve into blood-crazed madness, it wouldnt be a stretch to say that many of them start out on the path to Khorne from being honourable warriors themselves.

Of course, its a pity when all of that subtlety is just thrown out the window and subsequently drowned in that OTP "The Blood God does not care from whom the blood flows, so long as it doe." shtick. It used to be that Khorne DID care where his blood and skulls came from. If you were Khorne, wouldnt you be insulted if you were only given the blood and skulls of the weak, old and infirm?

I recently read the Valkia the Bloody novel - which I found both very enoyable and actually had something a little more than basic beserkers.

It is Warhammer Fantasy - but a tribe on a feral world worshipping Khorne would be very similar.........

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer/valkia-the-bloody.html

http://thefoundingfields.com/2012/06/valkia-the-bloody-shadowhawk/

Warhammer armies mentions 'honour'
ie no magic and shooting. Just hand to hand.

I suppose then we'd have to define what "honour" actually means, first.

Khorne Berserker: "What are you doing aiming that crossbow at that unarmed child? That is dishonourable! Use your friggin' axe!"

Bigger chance of seeing the blow come and defending yourself.

thenoobbomb wrote:Bigger chance of seeing the blow come and defending yourself.

Eh, an unarmed child still wouldn't be able to defend itself.

Khorne and his followers value martial power, and such strength can only be proven in combat with an equal or greater foe. Nevertheless, Khorne also values simple spilling of blood, as much as possible and regardless of whom. As such, a true Khornate will always revel more in slaying an enemy that can truly defend him- or herself ... yet at the same time also not hesitate to behead a 1 year old babe. It just won't be as fun because it isn't a challenge. Individual cultists may elect to foregoe such base acts of senseless violence, but that would be the scarce remains of their own honour, not that of their Chaos God.

(to clarify, that also means that the "honourable blood knight" archetype is still entirely possible and fluffy, even if you'd want to stick to current studio fluff)

Lynata wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:Bigger chance of seeing the blow come and defending yourself.

Eh, an unarmed child still wouldn't be able to defend itself.

Khorne and his followers value martial power, and such strength can only be proven in combat with an equal or greater foe. Nevertheless, Khorne also values simple spilling of blood, as much as possible and regardless of whom. As such, a true Khornate will always revel more in slaying an enemy that can truly defend him- or herself ... yet at the same time also not hesitate to behead a 1 year old babe. It just won't be as fun because it isn't a challenge. Individual cultists may elect to foregoe such base acts of senseless violence, but that would be the scarce remains of their own honour, not that of their Chaos God.

(to clarify, that also means that the "honourable blood knight" archetype is still entirely possible and fluffy, even if you'd want to stick to current studio fluff)

Just killing baby's is a lot better then what Slaanesh would do
Also, they will not attack some one from the back, nor refuse challenges.

Harriticus wrote:Tzeentch for instance is the god of hope, and that hope is used to manipulate worlds and individuals into doing crazed thing.

Tzeentch is the god of change, not hope.

thisisnotpancho wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Tzeentch for instance is the god of hope, and that hope is used to manipulate worlds and individuals into doing crazed thing.

Tzeentch is the god of change, not hope.

Change and hope.

One example I can think of to support the OP is from the SW codex. In the description of Ulrik the Slayer it talks about how his martial prowess and fierceness during the First War of Armageddon earned him a "grim salute from the lord of the World Eaters himself."

So it seems that Angron, mr big chosen daemon primarch of Khorne is at least willing to acknowledge others who fight well, which is a kind of nobility.

CrashCanuck wrote:One example I can think of to support the OP is from the SW codex. In the description of Ulrik the Slayer it talks about how his martial prowess and fierceness during the First War of Armageddon earned him a "grim salute from the lord of the World Eaters himself."

So it seems that Angron, mr big chosen daemon primarch of Khorne is at least willing to acknowledge others who fight well, which is a kind of nobility.

Or it was just a Space Wolf bragging about how awesome he thinks he is.

I think we will possibly see the noble side of khorn in the new CSM codex when it is released, things like khorn berserker champions not being able to decline challenges and what not, I hope anyway, it will make the codex so much better and fluffier than a lot of other codexes seem.

Coolyo294 wrote:Or it was just a Space Wolf bragging about how awesome he thinks he is.

Killing a few Khorne Berserkers with your bare fists is pretty awesome in anyone's books...

Killing Inquisitors is one of them....

Mantle wrote:I think we will possibly see the noble side of khorn in the new CSM codex when it is released, things like khorn berserker champions not being able to decline challenges and what not, I hope anyway, it will make the codex so much better and fluffier than a lot of other codexes seem.

I'm used to Warhammer armies: WoC and that has exactly this but then for all characters

There can be a certain nobility during conflict. An acknowledgment of a shared experience, respect for someone who has to do the same job at the same level that you do. This leads to situations where people don't always take advantage of their opponents weaknesses.

I don't think Khorne has anything to do with that. I think Khorne centers on all the other aspects of warfare. The hatred, the rage, the fear and the bloodlust.

From what I recall, the underlying message has always been that ostensibly noble impulses - honour, martial pride, a just desire for vengeance - still lead to blood, death and carnage; which are just what Khorne likes best.

I think it's more that were Khorne to have a good side, it would be this, however given that it's the grim darkness of the far future, this good side is basically nonexistant, and simply theoretical.

p_gray99 wrote:I think it's more that were Khorne to have a good side, it would be this, however given that it's the grim darkness of the far future, this good side is basically nonexistant, and simply theoretical.

It does exist in WHFB.