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As per the new FAQ. That means the Bolter Bolt LRBT can shoot all its weapons at full BS. I'm still pondering the consequences of this change, but I think they are positive since I rarely moved my tanks more than 6" anyway. Also, it might mean Pask becomes a much better option. What does everyone think?

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CRAP! I can't flat out my Leman russes anymore!

All joking aside, russes should have been heavy vehicles the whole time. It didn't make sense for them not to be. This does make sponsons a lot better, and the bolter boat exterminators and punishers just got a lot more mobile. Also, executioners can move and shoot 5 plasma cannons a turn... excellent *laughs evilly*

Yay, they fixed hunting lances! Of course, they had to wait for four years until it was a month and a half too late...

As for the russes, see below.

Guys, this change really sucks for ordinance russes, because now the snap firing takes effect.
Heavy only means the tank counts as stationary for firing. Shooting an ordinance weapons makes everything else snapfire.

SO LONG TRUSTY HULL LASCANNONS.

Also ^, how are you getting 12 inches? They can only move combat speed, which is 6.

We still have lumbering behemoth don't we? Then we can still fire lascannon at normal BS_

No. Specifically states that the Heavy rule replaces Lumbering Behemoth.

I guess it makes eradicators sort of useful, as theyre the only large blast variant that is a heavy weapon.

Yeah, russes just got slower, making them no longer a good infantry screen. And they lost the ability to shoot anything else with their splatcannon.

Put another way, russes got worse.

Unless, of course, they're a non-ordnance russ, which can now move 6" and fire everything at full BS.

How did they fix Hunting Lances? I'm looking at the FAQ and I don't see a change. They're still S5 I5, only clarification is that they are AP3, which was RAI already.

Yeah, non-ordiance russes got way better and more manuverable.
LRBT and Demolishers just lost all their secondary weapons. :/ That's a kick in the teeth.

^ Hunting lances are +2 strength, instead of set to str5. Means furious charge actually work for them (and other str modifying things.)

Man, you guys must play with some serious Rules Lawyer for that change to be clarified.

Yeah, I got so excited that I forgot about the Ordinance rule. So this rule helps the Exterminator and Punisher, I guess, and makes the tanks I actually use worse. Crap.

Crap thats not good, as my favorite way to run a russ was with a hull lascannon.

Not sure what I'm going to do now. Means I'll have to pry apart a couple of my older russes...

I figure this will be errated again sometime in the future. The iconic LRBT has bolter sponsons and a hull lascannon. All of those are now useless.
Heavy vehicles should ignore the ordinance snap fire rule.

Oh, fun fact regarding rough riders. Seeing as that new weapon profile replaces the entire second paragraph, they get an extra attack on the charge for having two hand weapons. The lance is not a specialist weapon, so it counts as a second close combat weapon. 3 S5 I5 attacks each on the charge aint so shabby. Maybe theyll actually be proper glass cannons now.

Random setup: Eradicator bolter boat... 9 HB shots + the Large Blast shot (it is Heavy!) = sad enemy medium infantry.

Thoughts? Because I like it!

Yeah, the eradicator might be somewhat decent now, as opposed to entirely obsolete. It's the only large blast variant that can shoot hull/sponsons at full BS.

How about this line of thinking?

I think we can all agree that, with the possible exception of the exterminator, russes aren't getting hull lascannons. Too many points to throw around BS1 shots, or are incongruous with the main gun (as in the case of the punisher or eradicator). This means hull heavy bolters.

It also means that on ordnance russes, you're going to be firing either the main gun OR everything else. What if we thought of them like this? Russes have two groups of weapons, or as if they had a single weapon that came with two fire modes? As in, they have a gun that shoots heavy bolter shots that can also, instead, fire as a single large blast?

In this case, it would actually make sense to make EVERY russ a bolter boat russ. In the case of a demolisher, say, they have one gun "setting" that mows down light infantry, peels wounds off MCs, and can swat at fliers. Their other "setting" is to crack terminators. Think of it by means of cheap flexibility.

And, of course, for non-ordance russes, the bolter boat was probably the configuration you were already using anyways.

I don't want to pay 20+ points to not use my turret weapon.

170 points for 3 bs3 heavy bolters? .... no.

So let me get this straight... Guard prioritize

big guns = Slow, vulnerable to CC but kills things in mass
Automatic Guns = Faster, Less vulnerable to CC and kills less in mass

Balance who knew?

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
So let me get this straight... Guard prioritize

Big Guns = Slow, vulnerable to CC but kills things in mass
Automatic Guns = Instead of big guns, slow, vulnerable to CC and kills less in mass

Balance who knew?

Fix'd. I can't recall a single "automatic gun" in the IG codex that is fast and less vulnerable to CC...

Big guns arent any slower or more vulnerable to automatic guns. They just shoot less. Thus killing less things in mass.

Balance? This isn't it.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
So let me get this straight... Guard prioritize

Big Guns = Slow, vulnerable to CC but kills things in mass
Automatic Guns = Instead of big guns, slow, vulnerable to CC and kills less in mass

Balance who knew?

Fix'd. I can't recall a single "automatic gun" in the IG codex that is fast and less vulnerable to CC...

anything that sprays bullets. Basically a stationary tank is a dead tank far as a power klaw is concerned and in order to fire a big ordanice gun and other guns with a LRBT you need to stay still now, while other builds like punisher ect are now more encouraged to move and shoot thus giving them less vulnerable CC ratios.

Ugh. NO.

Theyre Heavy vehicles now. They count as stationary for the purposes of firing weapons.
Ordinance weapons could always move and shoot. But now they can only snap fire everything else (with the loss of lumbering behemoth). It has nothing to do with if theyve moved or not.

With this FAQ there's absolutely no reason for a russ to ever sit still, ordinance or not.

This means even more of the Gw russes will make no sense, and this change will confuse a lot of new players.

"yeah, that awesome lumbering behemoth rule you see? Doesn't exist, now you just snap fire everything if the turret fires." Really sucks, because all i have are the old russes. I have to figure out a way to convert them to heavy bolters now. Sponsons are still not worth it for the ordnance ones though, perhaps even less now. Only thing I can think of is multimelta sponsons and lascannon on a demolisher to be able to switch between tank and heavy infantry hunting, and even that isn't great.

Yeah, this was a pretty dumb errata. Take a confusing rule and make it even more confusing and less useful.

If youre going to use multimelta and lascanonn for tank/infantry split, put them on an eradicator now. LC/MM wounds heavy infantry, erradictor cannon piles on more wounds. LC/MM shoots at tanks, cannon adds potential glances, or hits nearby infantry.

I think you were missing my point.

You spend 165 points for a Heavy1 S10 Ap2 ordnance 24" gun.

You spend 185 points for a Heavy1 S10 Ap2 ordnance 24" / Heavy 9 S5 Ap4 36" gun.

The added points are for added flexibility. There are things that a single splatcannon can't handle as well as 9-shot S5 weapon, such as fliers, or MCs, or picking off stragglers, or shooting at displaced units.

Perhaps we should think of russes as bolter boats that come with a good secondary gun to handle their niches rather than a splatcannon with interesting fiddly bitz tacked on.

Or, likewise, a demolisher could be a multimelta tank with actual armor and a lascannon if you want it and a pie plate just in case you come across terminators.

Plus, I'd also note that a bolter boat isn't literally worthless. for 20 points you get 9 hits over 6 turns, which is the same number of hits you get with a 90 point HWS in the two turns its likely to survive on the board.

 Ailaros wrote:

Plus, I'd also note that a bolter boat isn't literally worthless. for 20 points you get 9 hits over 6 turns, which is the same number of hits you get with a 90 point HWS in the two turns its likely to survive on the board.

Uhm... 20 points for 4.5 S5 AP4 shots per turn instead of the pie plate? I dunno, sounds like "If you have the points then go with it... But only if you have the points!". The extra "flexibility" is sooooo situational, I don't know if it worths 20 points (the cost of the 4. plasma half-gun for the vets!).

That's my point, though. It's not situational.

A pie plate will never target fliers. It will always struggle to pick off stragglers. It will always struggle against displaced units. It will never be as good against monstrous creatures. They even peel off fewer HP against AV10 vehicles.

I feel like I come across these more often than I come across tightly-wadded infantry just begging to be battlecannoned.

... and you'll still always have the battlecannon in those few instances where you do.

I'll shoot fliers with other things, thankyou. There will always be stuff on the ground for me to drop demolisher shells on.

I can't think of anything (short of a single remaining enemy model in a decimated unit) that I would rather shoot 3 heavy botlers at, instead of the turret ordinance. If I buy a demolisher, its for the demolisher cannon. Not for the 3 heavy bolters I could put on it. If I'm going to do that, why buy the demolisher at all? Use an exterminator or other heavy weapon russ.

Those 20 points will pay for two more autocannons elsewhere that will always be able to shoot. Putting them into an ordinance russ is a total waste of points. You wont be shooting them accurately 90% of the time, and if you are, youre not shooting the bigass gun for which you bought the tank in the first place.

 Ailaros wrote:
That's my point, though. It's not situational.

A pie plate will never target fliers. It will always struggle to pick off stragglers. It will always struggle against displaced units. It will never be as good against monstrous creatures. They even throw down more glances on on AV10 vehicles.

I feel like I come across these more often than I come across tightly-wadded infantry just begging to be battlecannoned.

Well. Then why would you force the normal Russ? Take an Exterminator and shoot stuff with the AC+HB love...

And 9 HB shots can only deal with (somewhat rare) situational things, like the "lone SM on the objective" or the infamous "final HP Vyper". Against anything else, it is just an added annoyance what is a little bit expensive for 170 points.

Eradicator with 3 heavy flamers. Hilarious anti-hoard flame tank?