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I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I'm having no fun playing 40k. Not to get into a big thing; my venue dumped heroclix for 40k and I'm having a very hard time adjusting. To me the game is over-designed, under balanced and glacially slow. I hate tape measures, I hate space marines with their boring design and spammy template weapons, I hate a game that takes 20 minutes to set up, 4 rounds to get into fighting, and ends in 6. The less I say about GW itself, the better.

A lot of it is my disposition I guess. I know it's a dumb question, but is their anyway I can adjust my attitude and enjoy this game? Roleplaying? Baby step rules? Printed grid? Powerful pharmaceuticals? Hell, I can't even wrap my head around the book. (It's a simple 3-phase turn structure; with what seems to me like a 100 different special rules and variations to muck it all up.)

Probably just not your thing, which is fine. I think with most of us, it starts with getting sucked into the fluff or look of a particular army and the interest there drives the interest in the game. If nothing is really sucking you in along those lines, it most likely never will.

Boggy Man wrote:
I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I'm having no fun playing 40k. Not to get into a big thing; my venue dumped heroclix for 40k and I'm having a very hard time adjusting. To me the game is over-designed, under balanced and glacially slow. I hate tape measures, I hate space marines with their boring design and spammy template weapons, I hate a game that takes 20 minutes to set up, 4 rounds to get into fighting, and ends in 6. The less I say about GW itself, the better.

A lot of it is my disposition I guess. I know it's a dumb question, but is their anyway I can adjust my attitude and enjoy this game? Roleplaying? Baby step rules? Printed grid? Powerful pharmaceuticals? Hell, I can't even wrap my head around the book. (It's a simple 3-phase turn structure; with what seems to me like a 100 different special rules and variations to muck it all up.)

Its about compromising. Set up a 4x4 board instead of 6x4 and it'll be faster into combat. Beat the Space Marines and their spamminess with something spammier and ballsier, like Deathwing. And roleplaying is a good way to get into the fluff if you have a good group of friends, I would recommend Dark Heresy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for your powerful pharmacuticals point... There is NO problem that a bottle of advil and a shot can't fix

How large of an army are you using, too? A 2500 point army is to way to learn the rules.

Ouch, but it may just not be the game for you :( hmm. Are you playing large point games? Maybe worth trying a few smaller ones or even trying 40k skirmish game if you can get others into it.

If you say what army you have been playing maybe people can offer some suggestions during the games also
Also if you can get some games in with someone to teach you the rules will flow much easyer I find.

Not playing heroclix I don't know what it uses or anything :( so can't comment on the difference.

If you are not into two forces fighting each other, then you are not into it, but you played Heroclix so that can not be the issue.

The game was underbalanced, now it is just underbalanced for nids as they can not have allies.

The learning curve on 40K is steep in comparison to other games.

But the games get quicker after you become more familiar with the rules.

If you hate SM, play a different army.

Boggy Man wrote:
I hate tape measures.

You hate Tape Measures? I do not get the joke here.

Boggy Man wrote:
is their anyway I can adjust my attitude and enjoy this game? Roleplaying? Baby step rules? Printed grid? Powerful pharmaceuticals? Hell, I can't even wrap my head around the book. (It's a simple 3-phase turn structure; with what seems to me like a 100 different special rules and variations to muck it all up.)

If you like Roleplaying then make up the fluff in your head as you guys go along. Start Forging a Narrative and maybe even writing it down on your opponents turn.

If you like the 40K setting, or if you like miniwargaming, then 40K can be a lot of fun.

Once you get familiar with the rules you may enjoy it a bit more. maybe not.

To answer a few questions, I'm running Orks and right now we're at about 1,000 pts. The problem isn't playing Spehs Mareens, so much as it's ALWAYS playing against them. I had a lot of fun building the Orks, just not running them. (Also, a tape measure killed my sister...


...ok not really)

well considering 7 out of the 14 codexes out there are space marines, you will fight them all the time.

That and Marines are the poster boys for GW, and they sell a lot of marine models.

Well, perhaps find a pick up game against someone new with a non-marine army?
That being said, this game isnt terribly forgiving to beginners, there are a lot of rules, contingencies and nuances to learn, as well as the basic strategic part of it. It took me at least 5-6 games to really understand most of what im doing, and even now I have to refer to the rulebook at least once a game.

Marines are the classic starter faction, not really the fault of GW either.

They are fairly newbie friendly. As such, just about everyone plays marines at some point. This results in a larger ratio of marine armies to others.


This game just may not be fore you. Especially if you don't like tape measures.

But if your group has switched over, can't really help you there.


Be aware that this game does take a lot of getting used to. The learning curve is easily 6 months before you can seriously start playing the game.

Play more games, expect to lose alot. And I mean alot. It took me 8 months before I won my first game, and it was with my second army.

What 40k are you playing where it takes four turns to start fighting? Every list I've played starts killing stuff on the first turn, and keeps killing stuff all game. Perhaps the problem is that you're using a bad list?

By fighting I think he means close combat. >>

 Furyou Miko wrote:
By fighting I think he means close combat. >>

So a bad list then. I guess the lesson is don't bring a 100% close combat list in a game that focuses on shooting?

orks should be able to get into melee by round 3 at the very least, unless the Ork player has a bad list or the opponent is super mobile.

If you hate slowness and tape measuring, this ain't for you.

Maybe you'd like Warmachine better.

It still uses Tape Measures but its a little faster(and cheaper)

Of course you will need people to play.


Keep in mind that just about all table top wargames will use measurments. Only a hex or grid based game will not use a Tape Measure, and such games are rare.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe you'd like Warmachine better.

It still uses Tape Measures but its a little faster(and cheaper)

Of course you will need people to play.


Keep in mind that just about all table top wargames will use measurments. Only a hex or grid based game will not use a Tape Measure, and such games are rare.

Dust Warfare is another good alternative. Fairly simple and easy to follow rule system, well supported, and is probably one of the cheapest tabletop games out there.

Heroclix to 40k is a huge change (coming from an old Mageknight player). Im sorry to hear that your local group have made such a drastic and apparently one dimensional switch.

Personally I would look into Dust Tactics/Warfare as they segue nicely between Heroclix and 40k size rules and games without being difficult.

But again, if your firends cant be convinced they you are kind of SOL

 Lightcavalier wrote:
...
But again, if your friends cant be convinced they you are kind of SOL

Yeah, pretty much this. Aside from Clix I'd rather be playing about a half a dozen other games from Pirates! to Malifaux. Still, I kind of want to give it a few more tries; my only other venue is about 40 minutes away.

Try playing on a smaller board at 500 points. It'll be shorter games for sure

bfdhud wrote:
Try playing on a smaller board at 500 points. It'll be shorter games for sure

This is a good solution. Play small games till you know the rules backwards and forwards. Then you can start expanding.

Boggy Man wrote:my venue dumped heroclix for 40k and I'm having a very hard time adjusting.

Yeah, heroclix and 40k have basically nothing in common. If you're looking for a heroclixy game, then 40k probably isn't for you. If you like tiny games where there are few general rules but ever model is a character with their own rules, then perhaps you might consider Malifaux.

If what you want is to play 40k, though, then yeah, you're going to have to learn to play and enjoy a very different kind of game. It's like comparing football to poker. If you're making the transition from one to the other, and complaining that poker isn't fun because you don't do any running or hitting people or making a ball fly through the air, well, then you're sort of missing the point of poker. They're both good games, but you really can't compare the two to each other like you are doing here. A new game requires you to learn a new aesthetic.

Once you internalize that what you're looking for is something new, not something that's a replacement for heroclix, the next most important part is probably having good people to play against. If your veteran 40k players are jerks, or if there are no veteran 40k players, then things are going to be a much more rocky start than they would if you had opponents worth playing and people helping you out. I'd probably work on this social aspect first.

40k is a rather cumbersome game, but once you really get into it, things can be faster paced. It will never be heroclix fast, of course. 40k is much more epic - slower paced with a LOT of stuff going on. Once you start getting used to removing dozens of models at a time on a board packed with minis, skirmish games just seem kind of... puny.

Big suggestion: try learning with the Dark Vengeance rules, as they'll be toned down and they work on teaching you the basics first.

If that doesn't help, and you really don't enjoy 40k, you can't force yourself to do so. Might be time to try to get your buddies to try another game: 'shop' around online, looking at free rules from varying companies (Infinity, Warpath, and other freebies), find one or two you like and get the rules yourself and have your friends try the rules with their 40k models. Who knows-maybe you guys can find a happy medium. Or maybe you'll be able to enjoy 40k. If you don't though, you really can't force yourself to do so.

The game of 40k becomes fun when you have a fun game. What that means varies from person to person, which is the hard part.

I'd advise starting small, timetowaste's suggestion about the Dark Vengeance rules is a good place to begin; once you've wrapped your head around the basics of play/the turn structure you'll be in a much better position to start expanding.

Try getting into the fluff; the tabletop game of Warhammer 40,000 in a vacuum is a bizarrely over-the-top and horribly cliched example of the sort of thing made by watching all the sci-fi of the past thirty years and coming out with a strange mashup of everything, but the setting-unique backstory can be well-written and innovative. Try tying stories to your games, it's always more interesting to play a game where the fate of systems hangs in the balance than one where you haven't really bought into the concept.

One of the things that helped me get started was the fact that I had a lot of interesting commentary on the game in the form of Kenton Kilgore from the Jungle (http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/), you could try reading some of the articles there and see if they help at all.

And this may just be the game designer in me but if the game isn't fun start messing with the scenario parameters. If its taking you four turns to get into combat you may need a smaller board or different deployment zones. If you really hate Space Marines that much try writing a victory condition they'll have a harder time with (Regicide (kill other person's designated general) is always a fun one, Space Marines don't have a lot of ways to take down an individual model utilizing all the tricks at their disposal).

But if all else fails, don't feel afraid to drop the game and walk away. Different games appeal to different people, it's entirely possible that 40k isn't really going to appeal to you whatever you do; if that's the case, then you're better served finding a different hobby where you'll have more fun.

Boggy Man wrote:
To answer a few questions, I'm running Orks and right now we're at about 1,000 pts. The problem isn't playing Spehs Mareens, so much as it's ALWAYS playing against them. I had a lot of fun building the Orks, just not running them. (Also, a tape measure killed my sister...


...ok not really)

Some tips from another ork player

Play on a 4 by 4 board - that should be right for 1000 points.
Set up all your boys on the edge of your deployment zone (aka the starting line)
Don't forget to run your boys when you can't shoot. (and if they are choppa boys run them anyway)
perhaps get some bikes or copters so that you have something fast that can shoot a bit, or put your boys in trukks or wagons
get something that has AP3 - copters with missiles, Kannons, perhaps even flash gits or a shock attack gun (I too hate getting lots of wounds and watching them all be saved)
Or just get a weird boy and wait for a result that does something no one expects.

Boggy Man wrote:
I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I'm having no fun playing 40k. Not to get into a big thing; my venue dumped heroclix for 40k and I'm having a very hard time adjusting. To me the game is over-designed, under balanced and glacially slow. I hate tape measures, I hate space marines with their boring design and spammy template weapons, I hate a game that takes 20 minutes to set up, 4 rounds to get into fighting, and ends in 6. The less I say about GW itself, the better.

A lot of it is my disposition I guess. I know it's a dumb question, but is their anyway I can adjust my attitude and enjoy this game? Roleplaying? Baby step rules? Printed grid? Powerful pharmaceuticals? Hell, I can't even wrap my head around the book. (It's a simple 3-phase turn structure; with what seems to me like a 100 different special rules and variations to muck it all up.)

All of your complaints seem based on things that aren't actually true. Are you playing the game wrong?

If the game's not fun, then it's not fun, stop playing. 6th edition was a largely unenjoyable experience for me, so I stopped playing. If you're feelings are similar than I recommend that you do as well. Perhaps try to move to another system, or if you can't get a group to try something else out, try to just be content with modelling/painting.

But if it's not fun, then you really have no reason to play it in the first place.

In the grim dark there is only war. No fun.

The best thing I find to generate a bit of interest is to create a good narrative or use the extra campaign/missions from other books to mix it up and make the game more enjoyable.

Also try and play people who are very enthusiastic about the game, this usually tends to inspire me if I'm feeling low/annoyed with the game.

Boggy Man wrote:
To answer a few questions, I'm running Orks and right now we're at about 1,000 pts. The problem isn't playing Spehs Mareens, so much as it's ALWAYS playing against them. I had a lot of fun building the Orks, just not running them. (Also, a tape measure killed my sister...


...ok not really)

never pick armies that are weak or weaker , you wont have fun playing them . people will tell you that orcs are balanced etc , but truth be told if your playing against only a few friends then very soon you will find out that they can build orc kill armies while building all comers while you have to stick to few choice to have a chance for a win.And I don understand that it is not everyones thing
Also stuff that is suppose to be balanced around 2k doesnt work at 1k . No matter how you look at it meq stats give them a huge boost the fewer points are played .
If you dont want to play tournaments or your friends only play GW stuff then your are more or less stuck with what you have right now . But you shouldnt have probably started necron or IG , more fun playing them .

All of your complaints seem based on things that aren't actually true. Are you playing the game wrong?

marines make more then half of armies played ? true. games in 6th take longer then they did in 5th , because of range checking separate rolls for saves, look out sir , precision shots etc? true . 6th ed is shoty edition and sniper barrage is one of the best weapons in the game and everything in w40k gets spamed? true. Where was OP "no actualy true".

. If you really hate Space Marines that much try writing a victory condition they'll have a harder time with (Regicide (kill other person's designated general) is always a fun one, Space Marines don't have a lot of ways to take down an individual model utilizing all the tricks at their disposal).

lol . sm players auto allys mefiston then or a TWC lord and both auto assault any orc boss , and this is the for fun version of wining this.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
By fighting I think he means close combat. >>

So a bad list then. I guess the lesson is don't bring a 100% close combat list in a game that focuses on shooting?

Don't listen to this chump: he's clearly evil incarnate-