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In a debate today with my friend I said that 1k sons could be a medium tier unit if you wanted, but he said they were as useless now as ever. So what do you think? Are they okay or did they get fethed over?

I'm still using T-sons as much as I ever was. They rape the face off MEq armies. Pack 'em into a rhino for 277 points (cheaper than before at 289), roll up a fancy power and go shoot things.

A buddy of mine is running a list with 4 squads of 9 Thousand Sons each, and let me tell you, as a general troops choice these guys are a pain to drag down and can dish out plenty of firepower.


The biggest problem IMO is that they can't fire Overwatch because they are Slow & Purposeful.

Why only 9? Is 10 that much extra? And the overwatch thing was his main point, but if you support these guys with some HS platforms then you should be good

Oh no - no Overwatch?
18 shots, 1/6 hit - so 3 hits.
3 hits, 1/2 wound, so maybe 2 wounds. (MEQ)

You're missing out on 2 potential models/wounds to a MEQ unit. While yes, 2 wounds is 2 wounds - if that's what makes/breaks a unit... the unit has other issues.

I think 9 1K sons with a decked out termie sorcerer lord will be hard to shift... with some biomancy loving...

They definitely have their uses, but are very inflexible (expensive + no squad options)

I think it will be hard to run a pure thousand sons list.

ThisKidsTheBest wrote:
Why only 9? Is 10 that much extra? And the overwatch thing was his main point, but if you support these guys with some HS platforms then you should be good

9 is tzeentches favourite number


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 somecallmeJack wrote:
They definitely have their uses, but are very inflexible (expensive + no squad options)

I think it will be hard to run a pure thousand sons list.

i run 3 k sons squads of 9 with a 20 CSM squad and they do just fine
k sons arent useless at all i love them, and with ahirman now letting you infiltrate up 3 units you can put them where you want them
and now that S&P doesnt actually cut your movement they are even better cause you get the promised 6 inches where as before you had to roll difficult terrain EVERYTIME
you wanted to move. Another thing is yes they arent flexible but you get a psyker which kinda helps with that,
another thing is in the new codex your k sons dont turn into slow and useless models when the psyker dies now, they still get there full movement and everything. So no
i think that the k sons kinda got improved this edition, i played them in 5th and i think they had more disadvantages then.

Is ahriman that worth it? Can't you get a sorcerer with a better save and almost as many powers for almost half the cost?

ThisKidsTheBest wrote:
Is ahriman that worth it? Can't you get a sorcerer with a better save and almost as many powers for almost half the cost?

Even if you had the same number of powers, only Ahriman can cast more than one Witchfire per turn.

True but I don't know how much the extra power is worth

3 witchfire powers per turn

3 doombolts per turn


hmmmmmmm


I wonder if its worth it...wtf thiskidstheworst.

They need some specific back-up to crack transports, but while not top-grade competitive, they are viable.

Pros:
-They murder MeQs nicely and there is a bit less cover to offer alternate saves.
-With some luck you can spam Doombolt like mad from 3+ sorcerers and carve big holes in enemy lines.
-Respectable inv save makes them good against plasma and other MeQ-killing weapons.

Cons:
-Still quite expensive.
-Very inflexible; they are heavy infantry killers and that's it.
-Very bad at CC, and if you ever get into a scrap, your very expensive sorcerer HAS to issue/take challenges.
-Limited to the Tzeentch list. Before the dex I had great fun driving two squads close to terminator or marine units and unleashing a double serving of Psychic Scream. Now that's not possible.

I think that with the introduction of both allies and the new codex, they just got a major boost. The biggest nerf that they took was removing the demons from the codex.

I have played TS over the last 10 years, but off and on through the last edition because they lost the demons. Why was this a bad thing? They lost their solution to swarm armies. Now, they have the answer back, and in force with the demon codex update.

I still have to re-figure out my list, but any tournament that will have the allies, I will definitely be fielding them.

TS should handle helmets and act as support.
horrors should handle swarms
flamers should handle elite units and high toughness models
screamers should handle tanks, artillery, and elite units

Now we have the ability of taking better possessed and terminators, without the fear of losing the 4+ invuln.

Take some time and get used to the army. You will lose the first few games, but after you get the feel and how to direct your forces, then you should have a very difficult army to face. Just remember that if you get hit in combat, you will crumble, so keep out of combat...

 Jihallah wrote:
3 witchfire powers per turn

3 doombolts per turn


hmmmmmmm


I wonder if its worth it...wtf thiskidstheworst.

I didn't know you could spam the same one. In that case yeah its good

ThisKidsTheBest wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:
3 witchfire powers per turn

3 doombolts per turn


hmmmmmmm


I wonder if its worth it...wtf thiskidstheworst.

I didn't know you could spam the same one. In that case yeah its good

You can't, Jihallah is wrong. Ahri can cast 3 witchfire powers a turn, but there's nothing in his rules to allow him to break the base rules that say you can't cast the same power twice in one turn.

As for the thread in general, yes, 1k Sons got shafted again, which is really unfortunate. There's something about them though that always brings out so many fan reactions as if they are awesome ruleswise.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
You can't, Jihallah is wrong. Ahri can cast 3 witchfire powers a turn, but there's nothing in his rules to allow him to break the base rules that say you can't cast the same power twice in one turn.

As for the thread in general, yes, 1k Sons got shafted again, which is really unfortunate. There's something about them though that always brings out so many fan reactions as if they are awesome ruleswise.

Cool, but he can still fire 3 times per turn. It's not too shabby at all. 2 Tzeentch powers 2 pyromancy powers could potentially be explosive (har har Im a funny man )

I think Im going to be picking everything freely from the codex & just modelling it as pure thousand sons.

E.g. T6 nurgle bikers modelled to look like 1k sons riding discs. The T6 could be their kine shields or something. Any weird options can be written off as sorcery of some kind.

 somecallmeJack wrote:
I think Im going to be picking everything freely from the codex & just modelling it as pure thousand sons.

E.g. T6 nurgle bikers modelled to look like 1k sons riding discs. The T6 could be their kine shields or something. Any weird options can be written off as sorcery of some kind.

Though I have nothing to add to the thread tactically, I've always liked the 1k sons and think this is a great idea.

 somecallmeJack wrote:
I think Im going to be picking everything freely from the codex & just modelling it as pure thousand sons.

E.g. T6 nurgle bikers modelled to look like 1k sons riding discs. The T6 could be their kine shields or something. Any weird options can be written off as sorcery of some kind.

Only thing with that is that some people would probably have a few words against Nurgle Bikers modeled as Thousand Sons on discs using Nurgle Biker style rules.
It just seems like such a terrible thing to do haha.

Maybe it's because Tzeentch and Nurgle are opposing Gods.
Maybe it's just that it could cause some headaches for some people.
Not sure, but something like that just screams drama at me.

The problem is that since powers are random now, one can't even be sure that he will HAVE 3 separate witchfire powers to cast, which can be a bummer.

There is no problem to get 3 witchfire powers out of those 4.

Yes, they got boned. Ahriman is really good and REALLY expensive. You will not see any competitive Arhiman / Ksons builds, as they are too expensive and inflexible.

rigeld2 wrote:
Oh no - no Overwatch?
18 shots, 1/6 hit - so 3 hits.
3 hits, 1/2 wound, so maybe 2 wounds. (MEQ)

You're missing out on 2 potential models/wounds to a MEQ unit. While yes, 2 wounds is 2 wounds - if that's what makes/breaks a unit... the unit has other issues.

Killing the 2 closest guys is occasionally going to be enough to deny a charge.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Oh no - no Overwatch?
18 shots, 1/6 hit - so 3 hits.
3 hits, 1/2 wound, so maybe 2 wounds. (MEQ)

You're missing out on 2 potential models/wounds to a MEQ unit. While yes, 2 wounds is 2 wounds - if that's what makes/breaks a unit... the unit has other issues.

Killing the 2 closest guys is occasionally going to be enough to deny a charge.

Yes - occasionally it'll be great. More often it won't make much if a difference. Hence why I said the bolded statement.

I have wanted to start a 1ksons and Tzeentch Daemons list for a couple of months now, mainly because they would look damn good imo....

I am completely new to Chaos and still learning 6th edition, so it's been hard to think about which direction to take it. I do have the new codex, but still unsure what to go for...

I was thinking maybe just spam thousand sons squads of 7 or 8 in rhinos, and take maybe 4 of those squads as troops choices (obviously with Ahriman as HQ), simply because on paper they look like very good objective holders, with a 3+ and 4++ save and the fact objective holding seems so vital in 6th edition.
Then after that, maybe take x2 pink horrors squads as the allied troop detachments., since again they seem solid objective holders (especially with there heavy bolter equivalent ranged attacks). Then maybe a Lord of Chnage as the allied HQ (keeping with the Tzeentch theme).

However, after these core troops choices I am not sure which direction a list should take. It obviously desperately needs heavy support to support all those objective holders. What would people recommend for this?

 Sephyr wrote:
The problem is that since powers are random now, one can't even be sure that he will HAVE 3 separate witchfire powers to cast, which can be a bummer.

Pyromancy+tzeentch got a pretty damn good chance of it. Even 4 pyromancy powers would do it, as there's only one buff in their (last time i looked, could be wrong )

 Jihallah wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
The problem is that since powers are random now, one can't even be sure that he will HAVE 3 separate witchfire powers to cast, which can be a bummer.

Pyromancy+tzeentch got a pretty damn good chance of it. Even 4 pyromancy powers would do it, as there's only one buff in their (last time i looked, could be wrong )

You can only take up to half of your powers from the same discipline.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
The problem is that since powers are random now, one can't even be sure that he will HAVE 3 separate witchfire powers to cast, which can be a bummer.

Pyromancy+tzeentch got a pretty damn good chance of it. Even 4 pyromancy powers would do it, as there's only one buff in their (last time i looked, could be wrong )

You can only take up to half of your powers from the same discipline.

Is that a rule in the Chaos Codex?

Danzag wrote:

 somecallmeJack wrote:
I think Im going to be picking everything freely from the codex & just modelling it as pure thousand sons.

E.g. T6 nurgle bikers modelled to look like 1k sons riding discs. The T6 could be their kine shields or something. Any weird options can be written off as sorcery of some kind.

Only thing with that is that some people would probably have a few words against Nurgle Bikers modeled as Thousand Sons on discs using Nurgle Biker style rules.
It just seems like such a terrible thing to do haha.

Maybe it's because Tzeentch and Nurgle are opposing Gods.
Maybe it's just that it could cause some headaches for some people.
Not sure, but something like that just screams drama at me.

I've wanted to do a pure thousand sons army for years now & was put off by their sub par rules. I'm not going to let a little thing like crap rules stop me now their codex is here!

I know what you're saying about opponent objections, but I've discussed it with various people & I haven't encountered a single one who would object as long as I made it clear what each unit actually was.

 Sephyr wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:
The problem is that since powers are random now, one can't even be sure that he will HAVE 3 separate witchfire powers to cast, which can be a bummer.

Pyromancy+tzeentch got a pretty damn good chance of it. Even 4 pyromancy powers would do it, as there's only one buff in their (last time i looked, could be wrong )

You can only take up to half of your powers from the same discipline.

Only from the disciplines of the gods. Plz to check your codex if your only content to your post is "your wrong"