Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Please take a moment and check this out.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/431482863/finished-sectional-war-gaming-and-tabletop-battlef

Actually, quite expensive...

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.



As for the KS, you need to describe what the boards are made out of, what warranty they have, etc.

Details. We need them.

Also, are there options to swap out sections for others? What if I want 4 flat, 2 hills and no water feature?

It looks like its just foam sheets with paint and flock...

Why does this need a Kickstarter? rather then just a website?

the price if for a finished hand crafted unique battlefield. As pointed out above GW's is $290 unfinished and they don't offer water hazard areas.

They're made of high density foam board.

I believe I did mention in the reward descriptions that the water hazard pieces are swappable. I guess I'll add that for the hill tiles as well...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cyporiean wrote:
It looks like its just foam sheets with paint and flock...

Why does this need a Kickstarter? rather then just a website?

I do have a website and wanted to kickstart my business. That's what Kickstarter is for. My experience has been that people want a finished product. They already have to build and paint their armies...

yeah,

 Aerethan wrote:

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.
As for the KS, you need to describe what the boards are made out of, what warranty they have, etc.
Details. We need them.
Also, are there options to swap out sections for others? What if I want 4 flat, 2 hills and no water feature?

Kinda agree with Druidic $200 for what appears to be a homemade polystyrene battlefield seems expensive, but this is possibily because I can do the work myself. Some people lack the skills to do this so there may be a market for this.

The materials are what most people make homemade tables out of, nothing wrong with the materials, and they will last a long time if you look after them.
The kickstarter is basically charging $150 to make your homemade table for you... concidering the man hours it's probabily a fair price.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Why does this need a Kickstarter? rather then just a website?

For the same reasons as the mantic and reaper KickStarters did I guess.
Easy advertisement to reach a wider audience, money up front to buy stock...

Panic...

 Aerethan wrote:

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.



As for the KS, you need to describe what the boards are made out of, what warranty they have, etc.

Details. We need them.

Also, are there options to swap out sections for others? What if I want 4 flat, 2 hills and no water feature?

I'll have a more detailed description of the battlefield and the options up hopefully before the morning...

 Panic wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Why does this need a Kickstarter? rather then just a website?

For the same reasons as the mantic and reaper KickStarters did I guess.
Easy advertisement to reach a wider audience, money up front to buy stock...

Admittedly, the usual justification for Reaper's (And Mantics, I assume) is the need for an up-front investment to make the whole project feasible.

This project could involve some impressive time per piece and is certainly of value to many, but I have to agree that it's not really in the normal kickstarter mold. I don't see how there's a substantial difference from doing 1 of these to doing ten in materials per piece and set-up costs. (There might be a trivial materials savings/discount for buying in bulk, but that's minor.)

But I am certainly not an expert on such things.

 Balance wrote:

 Panic wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Why does this need a Kickstarter? rather then just a website?

For the same reasons as the mantic and reaper KickStarters did I guess.
Easy advertisement to reach a wider audience, money up front to buy stock...

Admittedly, the usual justification for Reaper's (And Mantics, I assume) is the need for an up-front investment to make the whole project feasible.

This project could involve some impressive time per piece and is certainly of value to many, but I have to agree that it's not really in the normal kickstarter mold. I don't see how there's a substantial difference from doing 1 of these to doing ten in materials per piece and set-up costs. (There might be a trivial materials savings/discount for buying in bulk, but that's minor.)

But I am certainly not an expert on such things.

I'd actually see it quite the other way around. Both Mantic and Reaper could've put their plans on the table of a bank and get traditional investment against equity. This sort of project.. no way. This is the type of start-up that needs crowd-funding and that crowd-funding should support.

Besides that.. what exactly is "normal kickstarter mold". The appeal of the whole crowd-funding thing is that it is quite flexible.

http://www.indiegogo.com/BidensTransAm

It just seems much too niche for Kickstarter's limited constraints, and like it would be better to have just made a few, take a bunch of pictures, and build a 'Made When Ordered' webshop around it.

 Aerethan wrote:

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.

When you factor in the materials and detail, it's a rare thing to say but in my opinion GW is definitely the better value for your money.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

 Aerethan wrote:

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.

Kinda agree with Druidic $200 for what appears to be a homemade polystyrene battlefield seems expensive, but this is possibily because I can do the work myself. Some people lack the skills to do this so there may be a market for this.

The materials are what most people make homemade tables out of, nothing wrong with the materials, and they will last a long time if you look after them.
The kickstarter is basically charging $150 to make your homemade table for you... concidering the man hours it's probabily a fair price.

I think Panic and Druidic have pretty much hit the nail on the head. It may be a third of GW's price but GW's boards are made of injection molded plastic where yours are foam core, glue, paint, and flock - supplies most people can get really cheap.

 ph34r wrote:
When you factor in the materials and detail, it's a rare thing to say but in my opinion GW is definitely the better value for your money.

Foam also has the liability of being far less durable than plastic or resin. Most foam boards just don't hold up over time but people generally don't care because they're so cheap to replace when necessary. I don't know anyone who has had to replace their GW board because of general use and wear.

Sorry, but without something more substantial than "I'll cut and flock a foam board and some hills for you", I don't expect a lot of people will be investing at this price. Good luck to you, though.

Some quick suggestions from someone what has run a kickstarter (somewhat successful having surpassed my goal anyway!).

1. It helps if you have actually backed some projects before. This doesn't even take much. If there isn't anything you like just give a dollar here or a dollar there.

2. You need to tell people why you need $5000. As far as I can tell there is no up front money need at all. You aren't making molds and you aren't outsourcing anything. So you really need to tell us why you need the money other than I just want to make cash (of course that is a pretty good reason in and of itself but give us something more!)

3. You need to seriously rethink your price on this. $200 for a 6x4 section of flocked and painted foam is REALLY expensive and not going to attract a lot of interest. I could do this in 6 hours for less than $50 (easily less than).

 ph34r wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

Druidic wrote:
Actually, quite expensive...

$200 for 4x6 compared to GW's price of $290.

When you factor in the materials and detail, it's a rare thing to say but in my opinion GW is definitely the better value for your money.

just as a point of reference, I also make terrain and am very seriously pursuing making it for sale. but your price point is WAY off.

for a basic sheet (no real protrusions, just a field with some dirt on it), 4' x 6' (24 square feet of material) I was charging the following:

1/2" foam board: $115
1" foam: $125
2" foam: $150

I charge more for other features like tree's or shrubs, water effects, cliffs and such. but my absolute base level terrain is the priced above.

these aren't made up numbers. I crunched cost of material per ft^2, calculated my cost margin, included my personal labor rate, and that's what I came out with.

i'm not trying to undercut you here, as it is I only sell to my friends or local people who don't have time or space, so i'm not looking to turn this into a full time business. why? because full time business is cost prohibitive. for me its gaming/beer money.

you're near double that. so either your material costs you an arm and a leg, or you're double the profit margin. either way, this is exactly why I started making my own terrain.

I assume you mean feet, instead of inches. 150 bucks for a 2 inch square board would be pretty ludicrous.

But jokes aside, your math is really fething off. 2'x2' foot foam board equates to 4 square feet; this is 1/4th of the area of the 4'x4' foam board, which is 16 square feet. You're charging 150 USD for a board which has 1/4th the area of his 150 USD board. He is not charging twice as much as you are.

On the contrary!

You are charging four times as much as he is.

Also, for 200 USD, he gives you SIX 2'x2' boards-- given your price scale, you would charge someone 900 USD for what this kickstarter charges 200 USD. For three hundred USD, he gives you eight 2'x2' boards-- your scale would charge 1200 when he charges 300. Both the 200 and 300 scales in this kickstarter offer movable hills as well-- three in the 200, six in the 300. This is on top of the numerous 2'x2' boards.

Have a nice day.




Anyway, my bitching about people's inability to do math aside, personally I'm unlikely to get this because I can't afford it. But I wish ya luck!

He means thickness of the board.

Everyone, thank you for the input. This is what i was looking for.

First I do intend to lower the price, sightly. I was simply testing the market. You can't blame a guy for trying, I do have a family.

As far as the construction is concerned, I don't just slap them together. Cutting and sanding the hills takes time, especially when there are no seam lines were the hills start, no value in craftsmanship here. I guess water hazards mean nothing too. I thought that would be a feature other gamers would find attractive. I use a high bonding/anti chipping paint as a base coat and then spray coat the board, followed by dry brushing and then of course the mixed flock.

 judgedoug wrote:
He means thickness of the board.

I have my doubts, but that's possible. Even still, the 200 is 6 2'x2' boards plus three movable hills, and includes an optional water trap on one of the boards and sculpted hills on the other parts-- not merely 150 for a single flat 4'x6' board with some dirt on it.

I mean I don't particularly care, as I'd be more likely to make it myself to save money (even if my terrain would probably suck), but I kinda got irked over overreaction about the prices.

A 4'x8' piece of 2" foam board XPS retails for about $28, which works out to $3.5 per 2' sq.

A single 4x8 blank board would net you a 4'x6' table and an extra 8' sq to make hills and what not.

Throw on some paint, some flock, a little sealant and some glue and you have the total cost pre labor to be about $50-60.

So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

Toadkiller wrote:
So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

you do make a nice table, and it is from what i see a fair price, but what is the custom ability of the table? Can i have you do a thick foam, work trenches in for me with peaked mountains (pointy tips) and so on? can i provide a sketch of the table and you work with that? Just exactly how far does this go? I mean sure you can make/sell generic tables. And at 200$ a piece its a fair price for a hand crafted 6x4 table with shipping included. But if you don't mind answering my questions id appreciate it.

 cormadepanda wrote:

Toadkiller wrote:
So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

you do make a nice table, and it is from what i see a fair price, but what is the custom ability of the table? Can i have you do a thick foam, work trenches in for me with peaked mountains (pointy tips) and so on? can i provide a sketch of the table and you work with that? Just exactly how far does this go? I mean sure you can make/sell generic tables. And at 200$ a piece its a fair price for a hand crafted 6x4 table with shipping included. But if you don't mind answering my questions id appreciate it.

Thank you!

Yes i can make terrain/a battlefield like that. Here's a w.i.p. pic of something I did for Armies on Parade two GDs ago. I have to look for pics of it finished though.

Toadkiller wrote:
Everyone, thank you for the input. This is what i was looking for.

First I do intend to lower the price, sightly. I was simply testing the market. You can't blame a guy for trying, I do have a family.

As far as the construction is concerned, I don't just slap them together. Cutting and sanding the hills takes time, especially when there are no seam lines were the hills start, no value in craftsmanship here. I guess water hazards mean nothing too. I thought that would be a feature other gamers would find attractive. I use a high bonding/anti chipping paint as a base coat and then spray coat the board, followed by dry brushing and then of course the mixed flock.

May I suggest having all these details in the Kickstarter, plus photos of the process? There's just a few pictures and we don't know what materials etc were used in the creation. As witnessed from this thread, everyone is assuming a quick foam/paint/spray job. It looks like it's certainly a lot more high quality than that by what you're saying.

 cormadepanda wrote:

Toadkiller wrote:
So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

you do make a nice table, and it is from what i see a fair price, but what is the custom ability of the table? Can i have you do a thick foam, work trenches in for me with peaked mountains (pointy tips) and so on? can i provide a sketch of the table and you work with that? Just exactly how far does this go? I mean sure you can make/sell generic tables. And at 200$ a piece its a fair price for a hand crafted 6x4 table with shipping included. But if you don't mind answering my questions id appreciate it.

Here are finished pics, also fyi this board is wired with lights.

Toadkiller wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:

Toadkiller wrote:
So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

you do make a nice table, and it is from what i see a fair price, but what is the custom ability of the table? Can i have you do a thick foam, work trenches in for me with peaked mountains (pointy tips) and so on? can i provide a sketch of the table and you work with that? Just exactly how far does this go? I mean sure you can make/sell generic tables. And at 200$ a piece its a fair price for a hand crafted 6x4 table with shipping included. But if you don't mind answering my questions id appreciate it.

Here are finished pics, also fyi this board is wired with lights.

From what i see here, this is definitely something worth paying for. The board is lovely. And if you are willing to do a custom table, then by all means this should be kick started! On pricing perhaps, you can charge by the 2'x2' for people who dont carry a full pocket of 200$ for a table. Also what would be the work time on this? Estimated work time for a placed product ect.

 cormadepanda wrote:

Toadkiller wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:

Toadkiller wrote:
So I considered lowering my reward prices more than I did, but I had to take shipping fees into account. I'm eating that cost, size and weight do add up.

I guess it wasn't expected domestic shipping is included...

you do make a nice table, and it is from what i see a fair price, but what is the custom ability of the table? Can i have you do a thick foam, work trenches in for me with peaked mountains (pointy tips) and so on? can i provide a sketch of the table and you work with that? Just exactly how far does this go? I mean sure you can make/sell generic tables. And at 200$ a piece its a fair price for a hand crafted 6x4 table with shipping included. But if you don't mind answering my questions id appreciate it.

Here are finished pics, also fyi this board is wired with lights.

From what i see here, this is definitely something worth paying for. The board is lovely. And if you are willing to do a custom table, then by all means this should be kick started! On pricing perhaps, you can charge by the 2'x2' for people who dont carry a full pocket of 200$ for a table. Also what would be the work time on this? Estimated work time for a placed product ect.

That's tough to calculate, I built this in my spare time over a few weeks. There is over $125 in material alone and about 30-40 hrs. The wired lights cost about $80. I'll have to try and make a little movie and post it.

Plus this would have to be a totally different Kickstarter project. A decent quality battlefield with a few options is all I can handle with this KS

Well, for simple sake, i don't know if people want to shell for simple sake, because it is simple. In my opinion if i was getting a field like you pictured i would shell out 250$ or more for it, but a solid problem is, you near the GW incomplete table price, and foam is flimsy compared to plastic. Thus a generic boring board for 200$ just doesnt sound like a home run to most gamers. Even if the table is nicer looking then the floor, or a kitchen table, the kitchen or floor isn't 200$.

 cormadepanda wrote:
Well, for simple sake, i don't know if people want to shell for simple sake, because it is simple. In my opinion if i was getting a field like you pictured i would shell out 250$ or more for it, but a solid problem is, you near the GW incomplete table price, and foam is flimsy compared to plastic. Thus a generic boring board for 200$ just doesnt sound like a home run to most gamers. Even if the table is nicer looking then the floor, or a kitchen table, the kitchen or floor isn't 200$.

And that's why I did lower the price to $175. With the material cost, shipping and my time, I'm not over charging for that much. If I can flip 30 4x6s worldwide this kickstarter will work...

Toadkiller wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:
Well, for simple sake, i don't know if people want to shell for simple sake, because it is simple. In my opinion if i was getting a field like you pictured i would shell out 250$ or more for it, but a solid problem is, you near the GW incomplete table price, and foam is flimsy compared to plastic. Thus a generic boring board for 200$ just doesnt sound like a home run to most gamers. Even if the table is nicer looking then the floor, or a kitchen table, the kitchen or floor isn't 200$.

And that's why I did lower the price to $175. With the material cost, shipping and my time, I'm not over charging for that much. If I can flip 30 4x6s worldwide this kickstarter will work...

Serious question here. Do you know how much it will actually cost to ship (including packing materials and the large box)? This can be a very serious hit to your bottom line.

I've got a load of 2ft square flocked boards I picked up for under £25 each so 6 board under £150. Granted I can't remember the name of the company as it was some years ago, but to me that means $200 for a new table I don't need is steep.

Does not matter what it costs to build, does not matter what other boards cost, to ME too rich for what your offering. simples!

Wish you luck, but does not fire me up to invest, and over this last year I've invested over £600 on new inovative stuff.