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Allright guys, this came up in a game:

The codex states for Stormravens: "If the Stormraven exploded, the Dreadnought will suffer a Strength 4 hit on its rear armour."

Page 81 of the (mini) rulebook: "If a Zooming Flyer is Wrecked or Explodes, its flaming debris rains down on the battlefield. [...] If the Flyer is also a Transport, any models within suffer a Strength 10 hit with no armour saves allowed."

If a stormraven is carrying a dreadnought, and it gets destroyed what happens if:

It was zooming?
It was hovering?
Any difference between being wrecked, or exploding?
What armour facing is the Strength 10 hit resolved against?

Hope you can help out here guys! Not sure how to play this

Normally I would say it takes a Str 10 hit but if your codex specifically details what happens in an explosion, then I would say your Codex overrules the BRB, but just for the explosion not for Wrecked.


PS have you checked the FAQ's for BA? There might be an errata or FAQ on this. I dont play BA so I am not up on their info.

It has not been FaQed.

So the answer is: We are not sure what happens.

Since the codex specifically deals with what happens to the dread when it explodes I would use the codex over the BRB since there is a conflict.

Wouldn't it just take both?

 DeathReaper wrote:
It has not been FaQed.

So the answer is: We are not sure what happens.

Since the codex specifically deals with what happens to the dread when it explodes I would use the codex over the BRB since there is a conflict.

The codex only covers explodes. If it wrecks, the codex says nothing, so that you'd have to use the BRB S10 hit. As for the side, just hope to roll a 3+ so it doesn't matter.
I'd hit side armor (no direct rule support) because most rules with non-directional hits hit side army.

-Matt

Drager wrote:
Wouldn't it just take both?

This. It takes an S4 hit to the rear and an S10 hit to... somewhere.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Drager wrote:
Wouldn't it just take both?

This. It takes an S4 hit to the rear and an S10 hit to... somewhere.

This doesn't make sense, you cannot suffer two explosions from a single vehicle. The Stormraven only blows up once as far as the game is concerned.

You either take a Str 10 hit per BRB or a Str 4 hit per Codex.

Classic case of Codex >BRB.

Str 4 it is.

I doubt that's intended, but yeah - Str4 rear armor on an explode or a Str10 somewhere on a wreck.

HIWPI is Str10 to the rear on wreck or explodes.

rigeld2 wrote:
I doubt that's intended, but yeah - Str4 rear armor on an explode or a Str10 somewhere on a wreck.

HIWPI is Str10 to the rear on wreck or explodes.

why would it be a Str10 to the rear if you're going to forget all about the codex rule?

Am I to assume this problem needs a house rule? As there doesn't seem to be a straight answer really

I play it as a 'Strength 4 hit to the rear Armor' in both cases, but yes there is definately some vagueness there.

 Requiem wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I doubt that's intended, but yeah - Str4 rear armor on an explode or a Str10 somewhere on a wreck.

HIWPI is Str10 to the rear on wreck or explodes.

why would it be a Str10 to the rear if you're going to forget all about the codex rule?

Am I to assume this problem needs a house rule? As there doesn't seem to be a straight answer really

The Codex rule never took Zooming into consideration.
I think rigeld2's suggestion is a sound one, Str10 hit for Crash and Burn, and Str4 hit if Hovering.

It takes a str 4 hit in skimmer mode and a str 10 hit in flier mode. It is assumed to be rear armor in both cases, but don't forget the hit doesn't have an ap value, so no bonuses to the damage table.

40k-noob wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Drager wrote:
Wouldn't it just take both?

This. It takes an S4 hit to the rear and an S10 hit to... somewhere.

This doesn't make sense, you cannot suffer two explosions from a single vehicle. The Stormraven only blows up once as far as the game is concerned.

You either take a Str 10 hit per BRB or a Str 4 hit per Codex.

Classic case of Codex >BRB.

Str 4 it is.

Str 4 could be shrapnel, Str 10 falling. Although whether or not it makes sense from a fluff view is not really relavent.

 juraigamer wrote:
It takes a str 4 hit in skimmer mode and a str 10 hit in flier mode. It is assumed to be rear armor in both cases, but don't forget the hit doesn't have an ap value, so no bonuses to the damage table.

Why is it assumed to be rear armour? Not trying to save my dreadnought from dying horribly in the future or anything, just wondering

 Requiem wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
It takes a str 4 hit in skimmer mode and a str 10 hit in flier mode. It is assumed to be rear armor in both cases, but don't forget the hit doesn't have an ap value, so no bonuses to the damage table.

Why is it assumed to be rear armour? Not trying to save my dreadnought from dying horribly in the future or anything, just wondering

There's no way to know which side to apply the hit, but the rule in the Codex suggests Rear.

I was under the assumption that all attacks that don't really have a direction are resolved against rear armour.

meh...nevermind.

The dread is embarked on the flyer, the model is within the flyer.

Had this come up in the last tournament and saw the same argument. We rules that it was a wreck not a an explosion so went with the S10 hit but took it to the side armor. lucky for me it still pen'd and immobolized the dangerous dread.

I would say while flying which isnt covered in the codex the dread would take the S10 hit like everything else. While in hover mode it can take the codex rule of S4 on rear armor.

Normally when a vehicle Explodes everything embarked suffers a Str4 hit.
With a Dreadnought embarked it leaves the question "Which side should the hit be resolved at?"
My interpretation is the rule in the Codex answers this by saying the Str4 hit is against the rear armour.
Now while Zooming, embarked models take a Str10 hit instead and again leaves the question of which side to hit the Dreadnoght. Using the previous answer as a precident again against the Rear armour.
So Hover mode Str4 on Rear, Zooming Str10 on Rear.

Of course this isn't 100% supported by the rules, just my interpretaion of what makes the most sense to me.

It's not so bad for the dread, only on a 6 does the dread go by by, otherwise a 5 he's stuck, and a 4 loses a random weapon.

And yes, while there is no exact rule regarding this, we only have the info from the last edition, so it's all we can go on.

Zooming is irrelevant.

The Codex says "if the Stormraven explodes" while Zooming or Hovering, it doesn't matter, the Stormraven is exploding and thus the Codex should overrule the BRB.

However if folks want to play it the "Crash and Burn" rule way, then also consider this. The Dreadnaught is NOT "within" the transport but is actually on the outside held by the rear grapples. So the Str10 hit should not apply to him as the rule says, "If the Flyer is also a Transport,
any models within suffer a Strength l0 hit with no armour saves allowed."

Well if you want to do it that way...

So the codex states it takes a str 4 hit if the storm raven explodes.

Then the rulebook states if flying, the crash and burn rule kicks in, and the insides take a str 10 hit.

Therefore, you take both. Enjoy. Personally, just str 4 if skimmer or str 10 if flier is how I'd play it.

40k-noob wrote:
The Dreadnaught is NOT "within" the transport but is actually on the outside held by the rear grapples.

That's fluff, not rules.
The Dreadnought is embarked on the StormRaven.

Codex Grey Knights page 93 wrote:Transport Capacity:
Twelve models and one Dreadnought

My gut agrees that if the stormraven was zooming you take the str10 hit (but on what facing?) and if it was hovering you take a str4 on the rear armour as per codex.

Unfortunately though the codex rule doesn't work exclusively for hovering flyers. Since the rule was written when there were no flyers as we know them now the rule doesn't speak about this at all.

So RAW I'd say that the only time you take a str10 hit would be when it is wrecked (since the codex only applies to exploding vehicles and not wrecked vehicles). Question remains on what facing this would be.. It stands to reason to take the precedence of the codex rule and using the rear armour value.

RAI however I think you should take the str10 hit when it is zooming, regardless of the damage result being explodes or wrecked. It just makes sense.

Seems like an oversight to me but there's nog arguing with RAW

 grendel083 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
The Dreadnaught is NOT "within" the transport but is actually on the outside held by the rear grapples.

That's fluff, not rules.
The Dreadnought is embarked on the StormRaven.

Codex Grey Knights page 93 wrote:Transport Capacity:
Twelve models and one Dreadnought

Doesn't sound like fluff and it is within the TRANSPORT rule in the Codex Entry. In fact, this is word for word:

BA Codex wrote:
TRANSPORT:
The Stromraven can carry two separate squads: one unit of up to 12 models in its cabin, plus a single dreadnought in its rear grapples(if the Stromraven explodes, the dreadnought will suffer a strength 4 hit on its rear armor).

Clearly it is being transport on the outside of the vehicle. Anyway, it is neither here nor there in that respect, the Codex should win out in the case of an explosion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 juraigamer wrote:
Well if you want to do it that way...

So the codex states it takes a str 4 hit if the storm raven explodes.

Then the rulebook states if flying, the crash and burn rule kicks in, and the insides take a str 10 hit.

Therefore, you take both. Enjoy. Personally, just str 4 if skimmer or str 10 if flier is how I'd play it.

The CnB rule says if it is Wrecked or Explodes.

The explosion is where the Codex would overrule the BRB, with respect to the dreadnought only.

40k-noob wrote:
The CnB rule says if it is Wrecked or Explodes.

The explosion is where the Codex would overrule the BRB, with respect to the dreadnought only.

So on a wreck, which side do we apply the Str10 hit?
Simply put we there's no RAW ruling for how to handel this. A certain degree of interpretaion and House-Ruling is required.
We can argue our interpretations all day. I've given my view, you've given yours. Best discuss with your opponent on the day.

 grendel083 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
The CnB rule says if it is Wrecked or Explodes.

The explosion is where the Codex would overrule the BRB, with respect to the dreadnought only.

So on a wreck, which side do we apply the Str10 hit?
Simply put we there's no RAW ruling for how to handel this. A certain degree of interpretaion and House-Ruling is required.
We can argue our interpretations all day. I've given my view, you've given yours. Best discuss with your opponent on the day.

Unfortunately it is not addressed in the BRB, Codex nor FAQs. However since the Codex says rear for an explosion, I would defer to rear for wrecked as well, but that is just my guess.

The S4 and S10 hits aren't mutually exclusive. You're told by the BA (or GK) Codex to take an S4 hit to your Dreadnought's Rear Armour. You're told by the BRB to take an S10 hit to everyone embarked on the transport. Where, in the Blood Angels (or GK) Codex does it say that the S4 overrides the S10? It isn't a conflict, so there's no Codex>BRB to apply. You take both hits.

40k-noob wrote:
Zooming is irrelevant.

The Codex says "if the Stormraven explodes" while Zooming or Hovering, it doesn't matter, the Stormraven is exploding and thus the Codex should overrule the BRB.

However if folks want to play it the "Crash and Burn" rule way, then also consider this. The Dreadnaught is NOT "within" the transport but is actually on the outside held by the rear grapples. So the Str10 hit should not apply to him as the rule says, "If the Flyer is also a Transport,
any models within suffer a Strength l0 hit with no armour saves allowed."

Guess it cannot use the assault ramp than.