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I am pretty new to 8th edition warhammer (3 games with my ogre army and counting) after being about the game for about 3 or 4 editions. I am a big fan of the dark elf army (in fact would be playing them if their elite units weren't so expensive in £££) and have heard about the so called unkillable Dreadlord.

How is this character equipped and how do the items interact to make him 'unkillable'?

Not that I ever plan on using him even if I do end up collecting dark elves at some point, I am just interested in the concept.

Basically: you give him a 1+ armour save then the DE magic pendant that gives you a ward save proportional to the attackers S.
If he is hit by a goblin he has a 1+ save, if he is hit by a cannon he has to roll anything but a 6 for his ward save.

There are 2 main builds you'll see. Both have Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth (roll equal to or under the Strength of the attack to pass the ward, a 6 always fails) and the Stubborn Hat. The variation will then be whether he carries the Sword of Might, or Soulrender (Armour Piercing great weapon), the difference being whether you want him to hit harder or have a 1+ save in combat.

In short, he ends up with a 1+ armour save which is. Very hard to break, and then as your Strength increases to get through the armour it improves his ward save. The Stubborn Crown means he can run in a lot of units and just sit there whilst the rest of the DE army cleans up.

Most of them time he does die, it's due to silly luck swings. When I used to play DE mine was prone to failing ld10 re-rollable Stubborn tests or getting one-shotted by a cannon.

One alternative, because he doesn't actually lose that many combats, is to swap the Crown for the Black Dragon Egg (breath weapon).

Your best way around it are high volume of high strength attack to completely remove the armour save (for example, 18 wounds from a Mindrazored unit is doable over 2 phases and should kill him), Death magic (no Strength value so no ward save) or low Strength attacks that ignore armour saves (certain spells, or Waywatcher Killing Blow). Lore of Metal will not work because of the Dragonhelm. If he has a great weapon, S4 armour piercing in combat is quite a sweet spot.

All in all though, it's an extremely obnoxious build and there's a good reason why a fair few tournaments make the Pendant and Crown mutually exclusive on the same model.

Sounds nasty! I can see GW getting rid of the pendant of Khaeleth when they re do the dark elf army book.

It is a shame that they are cutting down heavily on the amount of race specific magic items (I especially like the old ogre club that gives killing blow) but this might be an example of one that has to go as it is downright rude when combined like this!


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I thought I read somewhere in the rules that even with a 1+ or better save (I recently fought a dwarf lord with a 0+ save somehow!) you still have to roll for it and a 1 is always a fail.

The only time a 1+ or better save comes into effect is when applying save modifiers.

Is that not the case?

You're correct about the save. The idea is that you won't be rolling many 1s.

Most DE players use him once or twice, then set him in the reserve box to be pulled out only when an opponent ALWAYS plays a hard-as-nails chosenstar or other gamebreaking combo.

Using the Unkillable Dreadlord is a lot like riding a bike with training wheels on. Yes, it's easy and you're not going to fall over, but you're not impressing anyone.

Besides... using the Pendant of Khaeleth on a caster allows her to tank most miscast results. Much more useful there.

He often is stuck on a Dark Pegasus too. It saves on buying armor and gives him T4 too. This build mandates the Stubborn Crown.

I hope they keep the amulet in the next addition but put it where it belongs fluff wise as an arcane item.

I can't imagine they'll keep that stupid thing. Unless it costs something like it should; I'd say it'd be fair around 60pts.

Why would it be an Arcane Item, though?

So it fits in with the other ward save granting items I imagine. And yea, I'm hoping it stays but expecting it to jump to about 50-60 points.

Fluffsays used by mages Will have to find quote

 jonolikespie wrote:
So it fits in with the other ward save granting items I imagine. And yea, I'm hoping it stays but expecting it to jump to about 50-60 points.

The items that give wards are Enchanted Items. Arcane items are dispel scrolls, power scrolls and all the stuff that directly effects the magic phase.

Which sort of opens up a conversation on how those categories should work. By making this an arcane item then it would only be accessible to mages, and it'd be an interesting trade off as it'd stop you takin other items to boost your magic power. But it'd mean you'd start getting arcane items that aren't actually part of the magic phase, so it's a little messier that way.

Oh, woops your right.. Actually that could make it much more balanced, it would let you make your caster so much more survivable but also make them just a lvl 4, instead of a DE lvl 4 with the sac dagger or something else stupidly good.

What's the point value now?

 Tangent wrote:
What's the point value now?

I assume you mean the pendant, and it is 35 points.

Yep, that's what I meant. Seems awfully cheap.

 sebster wrote:

The items that give wards are Enchanted Items. Arcane items are dispel scrolls, power scrolls and all the stuff that directly effects the magic phase.

Erm, don't you mean Talismans? (3rd time's the charm).

But I do think it'd be a pretty elegant fix to make it an arcane item. Could live with that pricing too. That's a good sidestep to the whole "how much should it cost" question.

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Erm, don't you mean Talismans? (3rd time's the charm).

Yeah, thanks for the correction. Of my correction, as it were.

Where did I get enchanted items from? Is that what they used to be called in some other edition? Or maybe in some other game?

But I do think it'd be a pretty elegant fix to make it an arcane item. Could live with that pricing too. That's a good sidestep to the whole "how much should it cost" question.

I think it'd work nicely. I'm a little concerned that it might be a slippery slope, with all kinds of other stuff added to the arcane items group, but not that concerned.

 Vulcan wrote:
Most DE players use him once or twice, then set him in the reserve box to be pulled out only when an opponent ALWAYS plays a hard-as-nails chosenstar or other gamebreaking combo.

Using the Unkillable Dreadlord is a lot like riding a bike with training wheels on. Yes, it's easy and you're not going to fall over, but you're not impressing anyone.

Besides... using the Pendant of Khaeleth on a caster allows her to tank most miscast results. Much more useful there.

lol, everytime I put it on my chick, she'd roll dimensional cascade and dies anyway. So I put it back on the dreadlord.
Seriously, in all the time I roll my sup. sorc with the pendent, she died twice while trying to cast power of darkness...
One of which is the first spell she cast that game...

 Jackster wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Most DE players use him once or twice, then set him in the reserve box to be pulled out only when an opponent ALWAYS plays a hard-as-nails chosenstar or other gamebreaking combo.

Using the Unkillable Dreadlord is a lot like riding a bike with training wheels on. Yes, it's easy and you're not going to fall over, but you're not impressing anyone.

Besides... using the Pendant of Khaeleth on a caster allows her to tank most miscast results. Much more useful there.

lol, everytime I put it on my chick, she'd roll dimensional cascade and dies anyway. So I put it back on the dreadlord.
Seriously, in all the time I roll my sup. sorc with the pendent, she died twice while trying to cast power of darkness...
One of which is the first spell she cast that game...

Earthing Rod?

-Matt

When GW eventually decide to muck up the DE book (which they defiantly will) I will not be using it, I will use the same ine I am using now and only play people who let me use it

BaconUprising wrote:
When GW eventually decide to muck up the DE book (which they defiantly will) I will not be using it, I will use the same ine I am using now and only play people who let me use it

Good luck with that.

Yeah thats pretty atrocious. I don't think you'd find many people who disagree with the Pendant being stupidly OP and non-comparable with other 35pt items.
People want a balanced game, but balance goes both ways. It is mind-boggling to see people complaining when their favourite unit/item gets nerfed to the ground and that their ideal situation is simply to buff everything up to that level.

The Pendant is stupid powerful and it will get nerfed hard or removed altogether. Expect similar devastation with the Hydra, Crossbows & Spears and the Sacrificial Dagger.

I expect the PoK and SacDagger to disappear, and the hydra to go up to 225 points.

Do that and the RXBs and spearmen really don't need much adjustment.

@BaconUprising: won't you want to at least give the new book a chance? I'm sure they'll toss in some fun new toys as well. Like a Double Hydra or something.

Warpsolution wrote:
@BaconUprising: won't you want to at least give the new book a chance? I'm sure they'll toss in some fun new toys as well. Like a Double Hydra or something.

A hydra where every wound you cause creates another hydra?

Warpsolution wrote:
@BaconUprising: won't you want to at least give the new book a chance? I'm sure they'll toss in some fun new toys as well. Like a Double Hydra or something.

GW will probably have the bright idea of giving us new giant cold one MC. AND NOT PLASTIC BLACK GUARD.

No, they will have plastic black guard. They will make the S4 base, and remove the unit max.
They will be totally awesome, and cost $25 for 5 models. You'll want at least 50 of them...

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
No, they will have plastic black guard. They will make the S4 base, and remove the unit max.
They will be totally awesome, and cost $25 for 5 models. You'll want at least 50 of them...

-Matt

That would still be mildly sensible. Which isn't GW's strong point.

Warpsolution wrote:
@BaconUprising: won't you want to at least give the new book a chance? I'm sure they'll toss in some fun new toys as well. Like a Double Hydra or something.

Sorry but no. I hate all of the books they have released recently. They take all the fun out of playing with them. Unless the book has some serious class I will stick to the epic current one



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Neronoxx wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
When GW eventually decide to muck up the DE book (which they defiantly will) I will not be using it, I will use the same ine I am using now and only play people who let me use it

Good luck with that.

I know a lot of people who will let me, I currently play the old WoC book because I hate the new one and almost all of the new minis...