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re Warriors of chaos new codex:

Can someone please post what the changes in rules are, even jsut some basic overview? I am broke as all get out, and I have top choose which army to sell.

Thanks to anyone who chimes in....

eugeniusgenx wrote:
re Warriors of chaos new codex:

Can someone please post what the changes in rules are, even jsut some basic overview? I am broke as all get out, and I have top choose which army to sell.

Thanks to anyone who chimes in....

I've seen the book

Well all except the all important army list.....so no unit point costs and stuff

I only know the rules and items

Most hasnt really changed really. The EotG changed slightly (can turn into a spawn on a 2, 7 now does something, you can turn into a daemon prince on a 12 but they sadly removed the +4 ward if you decide to go stubborn). Chosen can now accept rolls of 2 and 7 but 2's and 12's only affect the unit leader, though you roll 3 dice and discard one so you pretty much have little chance of rolling 3 2's. Forsaken are now like 40k Possessed, though a roll of 1 screws them with ASL, and they get bonuses with marks. Giants only get +1 I from slaanesh. (Unless FAQ) Juggers only give +2 to your armor, but then again its WoC. Chaos Ogres gain ogre charge. Trolls LOSE MUTATIONS, so they're pretty much just normal trolls now. Hellcannons gain a +5 ward (cause they're a daemon I guess). Warshrines got nerfed a bit since they no longer affect a whole unit AND its a bound spell, though you get another dice to roll so I guess it works well for chaos heroes and lords. MoT doesnt give a +1, its just reroll 1's for channeling. However all magic marks can now take a BRB lore if they want (certain ones anyways)

No more Will of Chaos. Though not really sure if that is all that bad seeing most of your guys are still crazy hard to crack

Mentioned this in the other WoC thread but GW has been very conservative this time with magic item costs. Most are not point bank breaking. The most expensive item is the old hellfire sword which went down by 10 points AND got buffed! Though more risky

Sounds like a nerf overall though.

The broken stuff got kicked down or taken out, other stuff got a bit better. Overall still rock hard but now balanced.

Interested in seeing how the new Shrine turns out to work. Has the potential to be uber-broken.

Well I've got the book in my lap, and I must say most of it is pretty balanced.
The army in general has gotten faster, but the eye of the gods has got tuned down.
The Daemon prince is now more usable, but the marauders are not as good as before.

And yeah, the new beast is pretty okay =)


And no, the shrine isn't all that good, not at all as good as before.

eugeniusgenx wrote:
Sounds like a nerf overall though.

Seeing that 7th edition marauders were 4 points naked, I'd say they needed a tone down

They may not be the super efficient death machines but what usually works for them will probably work.

Heck have you seen Slaughter Brutes, tag a Chaos Lord on him and you'll have a WS8 Ld9 monster running around

WoC got a big time nerf.
--Lore of Tzeentch is useless. Over half of their spells will end up giving your target opponent Regen. Infernal Gateway does not work the same.
--Mark of Nurgle and Tzeentch took a nerf.
--Warshrines are now chariots and give EotG rolls as a bound spell and let you add a d6 and allow you which two die to use.
--Chosen are stupid expensive.
--Magic Items and Mutations are Meh at best.
--Knights have to pay for their enscrolled weapons.
--The new Slaughterbrutes are Meh.
--Most of the Special Characters got cheaper but stayed pretty much the same, Galrauch is no longer a Loremaster.
--Forsaken and Chariots are now Core.

Pretty much everything stayed the same or took a nerf, other than Special Characters this army book did nothing to improve the army and actually made things worse for most of it.

My opinion is GW saw what everyone was using and nerfed them. Chosen and warshrines took big time nerfs IMO. This is just another book designed to make what people use now bad and force them buy more stuff.

Overall I give this book a D, possibly the worst WoC book made to date.

 bigyounk wrote:

--Warshrines are now chariots and don't give EotG rolls only add a d6 and allow you which two die to use. .

They do give EotG

But its a bound spell and only affects models who can get EotG

 kenshin620 wrote:

 bigyounk wrote:

--Warshrines are now chariots and don't give EotG rolls only add a d6 and allow you which two die to use. .

They do give EotG

But its a bound spell and only affects models who can get EotG

Thanks, edited to add this, I overlooked that.

 bigyounk wrote:
WoC got a big time nerf.
--Lore of Tzeentch is useless. Over half of their spells will end up giving your target opponent Regen. Infernal Gateway does not work the same.
--Mark of Nurgle and Tzeentch took a nerf.
--Warshrines are now chariots and give EotG rolls as a bound spell and let you add a d6 and allow you which two die to use.
--Chosen are stupid expensive.
--Magic Items and Mutations are Meh at best.
--Knights have to pay for their enscrolled weapons.
--The new Slaughterbrutes are Meh.
--Most of the Special Characters got cheaper but stayed pretty much the same, Galrauch is no longer a Loremaster.
--Forsaken and Chariots are now Core.

Pretty much everything stayed the same or took a nerf, other than Special Characters this army book did nothing to improve the army and actually made things worse for most of it.

My opinion is GW saw what everyone was using and nerfed them. Chosen and warshrines took big time nerfs IMO. This is just another book designed to make what people use now bad and force them buy more stuff.

Overall I give this book a D, possibly the worst WoC book made to date.

Played a game yet with all that nay-saying?
Keep in mind that warriors of chaos were fairly powerful before, and now GW is bringing fantasy books into line with each other. New book is most likely fair and balanced. Just seems nerfed because it WAS nerfed, to make it more fair

I'm looking forward to my games with the new chaos, personally

Von Chogg

WoC needed a nerf. I say this as a WoC player who milked the Tzeentch Chosenstar for all it was worth.

I am sooo happy that you can take BRB lores if you have a mark now. Tzeentch lore was awsome and that kinda made up for being forced to take it last book. But I often was left wanting a main lore.

 Von Chogg wrote:

 bigyounk wrote:
WoC got a big time nerf.
--Lore of Tzeentch is useless. Over half of their spells will end up giving your target opponent Regen. Infernal Gateway does not work the same.
--Mark of Nurgle and Tzeentch took a nerf.
--Warshrines are now chariots and give EotG rolls as a bound spell and let you add a d6 and allow you which two die to use.
--Chosen are stupid expensive.
--Magic Items and Mutations are Meh at best.
--Knights have to pay for their enscrolled weapons.
--The new Slaughterbrutes are Meh.
--Most of the Special Characters got cheaper but stayed pretty much the same, Galrauch is no longer a Loremaster.
--Forsaken and Chariots are now Core.

Pretty much everything stayed the same or took a nerf, other than Special Characters this army book did nothing to improve the army and actually made things worse for most of it.

My opinion is GW saw what everyone was using and nerfed them. Chosen and warshrines took big time nerfs IMO. This is just another book designed to make what people use now bad and force them buy more stuff.

Overall I give this book a D, possibly the worst WoC book made to date.

Played a game yet with all that nay-saying?
Keep in mind that warriors of chaos were fairly powerful before, and now GW is bringing fantasy books into line with each other. New book is most likely fair and balanced. Just seems nerfed because it WAS nerfed, to make it more fair

I'm looking forward to my games with the new chaos, personally

Von Chogg

Yes because Skaven and Dark Elves are so balanced. I have played WoC since 3rd Edition, this book is crap. It took what was good in the last book and nerfed it and there was no flip side in making something else better. You call it balance I call it a crap book that went from one of the top 3 or 4 to being slightly better than Beastmen. This is the straw, good bye GW, it is pretty much Warmahordes for me from now on.

Have you even tried comparing it to the other 8th edition books?

Do not compare it to the other books that have yet to be updated.


All the previous overpowered books will feel like they got nerfed when their update rolls around. Its because they need toning down. Its just WoC's turn.

Agreed, just wait and see all the DE and Skaven players complain

Of course though 9th edition is probably next year so wonder if that itself could reign them in

Still waiting for Hydras to get a 50-75 point increase

I doubt 9th edition is closer than 2 years away.

So my small elite army just got smaller and hits less hard. Maybe in 7 years when all the other armies "balance out" maybe WoC will be playable until then they went from top tier to bottom, do not feed me crap and expect me to like it. Tzeetch plays like f'ing Orcs and Goblins, no thank you. This book is straight garbage and that is that. I just sold my Dark Elves and now I regret that, I sold them before it was known that WoC was getting a new codex btw. Thanks GW for that asinine policy, just love knowing 2 weeks out what the new release is. GW can stick it, I have made my last investment in their craptastic company. I hope they bankrupt themselves, the gaming world would be better off without them.

Don't tanke this personally. I'm sure this isn't true, but you are coming accross as a butt hurt powergamer thats mad because his army isn't top dog anymore.

No, not butthurt, tired of GW and their policies. WoC was a good army and it was a personal favorite, now I will probably shelve it along with WHFB as a whole, just as 6th edition ruined 40k for me this book has ended my WHFB gaming career. This book is just dumb, it is the worst WoC book ever made, plain and simple. GW saw that most people ran Tzeentch so they nerf hammered it and call it "balance" I call it making something crap so I have to spend more $$$ for new stuff. The problem is nothing in the book steps up and takes the place vacated by the old good stuff. Everything got more expensive and nothing got better. Keep falling for this ploy of GW, they don't care about balance or game play, they want your $$$ and they write their rules to coorespond to that goal. They have got my last $$$.

If they wanted money, they would have made the basic troopers cheaper. Not more expensive.

Nothing prevents you from continuing to use your old army with the new rules, and nothing is making you buy new stuff.

GW can't make you buy anything, remember that.

 bigyounk wrote:
No, not butthurt, tired of GW and their policies. WoC was a good army and it was a personal favorite, now I will probably shelve it along with WHFB as a whole, just as 6th edition ruined 40k for me this book has ended my WHFB gaming career. This book is just dumb, it is the worst WoC book ever made, plain and simple. GW saw that most people ran Tzeentch so they nerf hammered it and call it "balance" I call it making something crap so I have to spend more $$$ for new stuff. The problem is nothing in the book steps up and takes the place vacated by the old good stuff. Everything got more expensive and nothing got better. Keep falling for this ploy of GW, they don't care about balance or game play, they want your $$$ and they write their rules to coorespond to that goal. They have got my last $$$.

I have to say that I agree. To suggest that a power nerf is somehow balancing the game is ludicrous to say the least. Now when I play Skaven or DE the games will be shorter. No you can't do it like this unless you are releasing all the codexes at the SAME TIME, what is this World of Warcraft? No they ruined it. You can't use the balance argument because it will be months, even years before the others are all "balanced out" What a load of drek. Seriously it is force em to buy this crap to make their army work. It is crappy and it wrecks the hobby. The least they could do is make some of the new stuff hit harder. I feel bad for all the poor schmucks who bought the warshrine model before the book came out. Now that is true proof they were planning on ripping people off. They knew that they were going to nerf them so get the chosenstar people to buy some shrines and then nerf them. The game and the prices are just out of control. I am done with fantasy, even though I prefer it. So many hours, and now, my chosen are too expensive to field. Nice GW. Go spend your money.

I don't think WoC is hurt at all. I think they made the little stuff more expensive and the big stuff cheaper. All the Core is more expensive and you have to pay per model on marks, which is a really good move.

-Ogres are basically as good as OK ogres. And I don't get that. 33pts with HA. You can give them GW and make them cheaper than Ironguts (though -1LD and no banner option). But they all have options for marks. I'd say they are as good as OK.
-Trolls are as cheap as O&G trolls except have option of AHW. I know this is fluffery, but just who is making those HW? Have you seen troll hands? If someone else was making them, they wouldn't look like caveman implements.
-Chimeras are super badass and are Special.
-All the super lords got cheaper. I could see taking Kholek now. Though he's still pricey. Named heroes got more expensive.
-Almost every single unit in the game has at least 3 options, which is what WoC was always famous for. Just having a ton of configurations. I mean trolls got AHW! Other than mounts and characters only 2 units don't have any options, hellcannnon and mutalith vortex beast.
-Dragon Ogres have a halberd option but are the same. Shaggoths are 50pts cheaper.
-The EoTG stuff isn't quite as abusable. But the ability to turn into a DP, even if remote, is still amazing.

They can make a cheap infantry army. Elite infantry (many options). MI infantry army. Cavalry army. MC army. HUGE monster mash army. Magic army. Even monster Lord army. I mean, the only thing WoC doesn't do well is shoot.

Warshrine is pretty solid, its slightly more killy, its buff has changed but its been useful and will make every one of my lists I think, In low points it will serve has a Lord-toter.

Juggernauts got a touch more expensive, but that was probably for the best, still good, I dont regret my purchase from White Dwarf update.

They took away some of our special magic items and chaos gifts. Most of that stuff was garbage anyway, not too concerned, especially gaining some of the new 10point ones. They left me with my Helm of Many eyes and gave it +1 armor for 25points, so still happy.

Warriors are warriors, the two blocks of 18 I run didn't change at all, their banners got a redux but still pretty solid. Tzeench one I need to test, but like it on paper.

Manticore got cheaper, great!

Lores are Meh, haven't had enough games to playtest all of them yet.

Marked lords and heros have to go in similarly marked units, which probably should have been a rule anyway.

Only thing that is upsetting is my Marauders got a huge point jump, and probably cause them to go right into a box, Khorne Marked Marauder with GW is 11 points.

Overall, unless you were doing hugely gimmicky stuff, Its little to no change except your Marauders get shelved for exciting stuff.

I don't think WoC is hurt at all. I think they made the little stuff more expensive and the big stuff cheaper. All the Core is more expensive and you have to pay per model on marks, which is a really good move.

-Ogres are basically as good as OK ogres. And I don't get that. 33pts with HA. You can give them GW and make them cheaper than Ironguts (though -1LD and no banner option). But they all have options for marks. I'd say they are as good as OK.
-Trolls are as cheap as O&G trolls except have option of AHW. I know this is fluffery, but just who is making those HW? Have you seen troll hands? If someone else was making them, they wouldn't look like caveman implements.
-Chimeras are super badass and are Special.
-All the super lords got cheaper. I could see taking Kholek now. Though he's still pricey. Named heroes got more expensive.
-Almost every single unit in the game has at least 3 options, which is what WoC was always famous for. Just having a ton of configurations. I mean trolls got AHW! Other than mounts and characters only 2 units don't have any options, hellcannnon and mutalith vortex beast.
-Dragon Ogres have a halberd option but are the same. Shaggoths are 50pts cheaper.
-The EoTG stuff isn't quite as abusable. But the ability to turn into a DP, even if remote, is still amazing.

They can make a cheap infantry army. Elite infantry (many options). MI infantry army. Cavalry army. MC army. HUGE monster mash army. Magic army. Even monster Lord army. I mean, the only thing WoC doesn't do well is shoot.

EDIT: People played TZ because it was broken and OP. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. People don't play TZ DoC except Heralds (which are brokenish). They play Khorne Bloodletters...again, because they are OP. Notice the trend? If you want the game to survive it needs to be balanced. No one played Slaanesh WoC except for fluff reasons. It wasn't competitive compared to TZ, that's for sure.

Can anything cause a BS test? or is an EotG roll of 3 purely for maruder horsemen

I wanted to see if I'm wasting my time or not...are the following units that I have still good/useful/viable?
36 Warriors (probably still obviously good)
15 Trolls+Converted Throgg (won't buy the FC model)
12 Ogres (6 AHW, 6 GW)
6 Dragon Ogres (3 AHW, 3 GW)
2 Hellcannons
1 Warshrine
10 Knights (EWs)
20 Dogs
60 Marauders (probably only good for cutting up and snorting)
Galrauch
Tzeentch Lords on Discs and on foot
Slaanesh Lords

It's what I got. Anyone with a book who can tell me if I'll be happy or not...

Overall the things that were massively under costed (marauders) got more expensive and everything else got cheaper unless you field huge units of them.

Warriors dropped a point but halberds (rightly) got more expensive.

Knights are cheaper in small units due to full command only being 30 points not 50 even though you have to pay for ensorcelled blades now.

Marks across the board got cheaper both on units and characters but you are paying per model now. This makes hordes more expensive (again as it should be) but small units cheaper.

Mark of nurgle got better as its now a flat -1 to hit in close combat rather than -1 ws.

Daemon princes got much better and are now only slightly more expensive than a lord. They got way more options now as well with chaos armour, magic items, flight and chaos gifts worth taking. For 40 points your daemon prince has a 2+ save and a 5+ ward.

Oh and daemon princes have leadership 9 now.

War hounds now count towards core and can take vanguard for 2 points each. Poison is only 1 point now.

Chariots are core, Gorebeast chariots are special and excellent value.

Forsaken went up a point but are now core and much better than they were.

Marauder horsemen got a bit cheaper I think.

The chaos gifts are better and more numerous, magic items are fairly meh but that was to be expected with all the new books dropping army specific items.

The overall impression is that woc has the best core of any army out there even if marauders went up.

Cool. Is an all big beastie list viable? I saw chimeras are special...running Gaulrich, Throgg, trolls, chimeras, Shaggoths...just a big ol' monster mash.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Cool. Is an all big beastie list viable? I saw chimeras are special...running Gaulrich, Throgg, trolls, chimeras, Shaggoths...just a big ol' monster mash.

Hmm not sure about Gaulrich. Never really seen people use him, heck even generic chaos dragons I have not seen many

I used him in the very last Ard Boyz prelims. He did pretty good actually.