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So WYSIWYG. I understand its purpose and how someone who went the extra mile to get/build say a power fist can get pissed at someone claiming that a sword counts as the same thing.
However I think it would be more versatile if we could do just that. Also I have a 2nd hand army which i plan to heavily convert so my options arent so varied. So question time.

1) Lets say I had 5 havocs with lascannons, would you mind if i count them as say flamers or something. (I think that as long as the model weapon is higher point than a counts as weapons its okay if you get what im trying to say). Would you let that slide?
2) Whats ur thoughts upon WYSIWYG in general.

In casual games with friends, as long as you make it clear in advance, and every weapon of that type is the same. (So all lascannon in your army are flamers) That is fine, especially if you are playtesting.

In a random pick up game, should be fine provided the above is adhered to, and you make sure during the game that your opponent always knows what is what.

In a tournament, never. There should be no confusion about what guns a unit has. (especially if they have the option to take the modelled gun that they don't have...). Scratchbuilt/converted weapons that clearly represent what they should be are fine, provided they don't look like another weapon in the army.

Hope this makes sense from my point of view.

1) casual games, id prefer if the proxy weapon is in the same class (heavy bolters as lascannons, flamers as plasma guns) just to make it easier to identify, but casual is casual i dont really care
2) for actual wysiwyg, this is what I do. Say I have a built and painted techmarine with a bolter and power axe, but my codex lets me use a different power weapon (sword) and gun (plasma pistol) and also a storm shield. The way I get wysiwyg is I paint up a storm shield, a power sword and a plasma pistol, and just glue it on the guy. He looks like he is equipped wih everything but i will only use the equipment thats in the actual army list.

I don't mind 3rd party versions of weapons as counts as. What I personally do not like, is if you have what is obviously one GW model (lascannon as per your example) counting as something else.

It's obviously a lascannon.

BUT; If we were playing a friendly game at someone's house or at a club meet and they gave good warning, I'd be alright.

 Novelist47 wrote:
So WYSIWYG. I understand its purpose and how someone who went the extra mile to get/build say a power fist can get pissed at someone claiming that a sword counts as the same thing.
However I think it would be more versatile if we could do just that. Also I have a 2nd hand army which i plan to heavily convert so my options arent so varied. So question time.

1) Lets say I had 5 havocs with lascannons, would you mind if i count them as say flamers or something. (I think that as long as the model weapon is higher point than a counts as weapons its okay if you get what im trying to say). Would you let that slide?
2) Whats ur thoughts upon WYSIWYG in general.

If I have to keep track of something in your army, that doesn't look like it should, I'm asking you to either pay the points for the model you have or not field the model.

In your example

1) maybe once, but not a month later (go get some flamers if you want flamers)
2) Follow it, its a miniatures game, your minatures should be correct.

 Lobukia wrote:

 Novelist47 wrote:
So WYSIWYG. I understand its purpose and how someone who went the extra mile to get/build say a power fist can get pissed at someone claiming that a sword counts as the same thing.
However I think it would be more versatile if we could do just that. Also I have a 2nd hand army which i plan to heavily convert so my options arent so varied. So question time.

1) Lets say I had 5 havocs with lascannons, would you mind if i count them as say flamers or something. (I think that as long as the model weapon is higher point than a counts as weapons its okay if you get what im trying to say). Would you let that slide?
2) Whats ur thoughts upon WYSIWYG in general.

If I have to keep track of something in your army, that doesn't look like it should, I'm asking you to either pay the points for the model you have or not field the model.

In your example

1) maybe once, but not a month later (go get some flamers if you want flamers)
2) Follow it, its a miniatures game, your minatures should be correct.

What about HQ characters? My Necron Overlord for example. The dude can be equipped with every weapon and can do "combos" like Warscythe, Res-Orb and Tachyon arrow. I noticed that the only way to represent Warscythe + Res Orb is by using an Overlord from an AB, but what about the Tachyon arrow? The Traveller is the only model I know of with this weapon and there's no more room, both hands are already taken.
(Same thing about my crypteks. They all look the same, but I can have 5 crypteks with different weapons)

I understand being picky with WYSIWYG when you are talking about several troops, elites and vehicles, but are players that picky about HQ units when there's only 1, maximum 2 on the table?

I play fairly strict WYSWYG. If it's optional, it is represented. The only thing I generally flex on is meltabombs.

But I don't expect my opponents to play that way. I'd like it, but don't expect it. I do appreciate keeping the substitutions to a minimum, and being consistent with them. I'm OK with "all lascannons are really plasma cannons" That's one simple rule for me to remember. Once you have squad-by-squad rules to remember, I start getting irritated. And you need to remind me if it looks like I'm doing something crazy. If I roll a tank up next to a unit carrying flamers, which are all actually melta guns I'd appreciate a "You remember that's the melta squad, right?"

WYSWYG is a courtesy to your opponent. I don't mind loosing in a well fought game where I'm out-played. I hate loosing because I lost track of which unpainted pair of legs glued to a base was the guy with the plasma.

I don't mind within reason.. A guy at our local GW store glued all the items of his Crisis Suit to it.. So he could play any combo not worrying about it.. lol Though people play a lot of proxies at the store.. We have many younger players.. That don't have the money to buy lots of models.

Apart from small items like meltabombs, grenades or digilasers, I'd expect the models to have correct equipment on them.

It is a personal preference. I always model what i want the unit to look like and carry. Other proxy it is all a personal call as to what you will play with/against.

I rarely proxy anything any more, other than melta bombs.

With my group, I'll allow complex proxies if they're trying out new units. Most of my group will try something, and if it works, go out and build/buy the unit.

If you make the statement, "These flamers are meltaguns," I'm ok with it. If you make the statement, "These flamers are meltaguns, and these flamers are plasma guns," I'll ask you to use something else. If you make the statement "This coke bottle is a drop pod," I'll pack up my things and go home.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

What about HQ characters? My Necron Overlord for example. The dude can be equipped with every weapon and can do "combos" like Warscythe, Res-Orb and Tachyon arrow. I noticed that the only way to represent Warscythe + Res Orb is by using an Overlord from an AB, but what about the Tachyon arrow? The Traveller is the only model I know of with this weapon and there's no more room, both hands are already taken.
(Same thing about my crypteks. They all look the same, but I can have 5 crypteks with different weapons)

I understand being picky with WYSIWYG when you are talking about several troops, elites and vehicles, but are players that picky about HQ units when there's only 1, maximum 2 on the table?

If your Overlord is missing a third weapon, no biggy. If you Overlord is a different thing every week for several weeks, along with another HQ who seemingly has the Obliterator virus all the sudden, you're gonna half to play what you have or get what you play. If you need to convert something, I would help, and even help you paint it... but Nobz with Choppa that really are PowerKlaws and the like are just unacceptable to me.

Having been in the situation where little money restricts the ability to get models, I allow MOST proxies. Obviously, as long as it is an actual model (no coke-bottle Drop Pods) and it's a similar size. The only real restriction I have is if you are using the same weapon in the same squad but as the actual weapon, or you don't make it obvious which squad of flamers are the guys with melta.

As long as you are consistent with what is what and have a copy of your list to give to me, all is good. I just request that all the important weapons (Plasma guns, Battle cannons etc) are modeled appropriately. For example, I slap pintle mounted storm bolters/heavy stubbers onto my chimeras because they look cool and they don't actually have them as wargear. Otherwise, they are completely WYSIWYG.

Just be consistent and reasonable.

Want to test a Drop Pod army of 7 Drop Pods, but only own two? Fine, proxy the last 5 for a few games.

All you Lascannons are Missile Launchers today? Fine. lets play.

All you Veteran Squads have Plasmaguns, regardless of what special weapon the models actually have? Fine. Roll for mission.

Imotek the Storm Lord is just an Necron Overlord this game? Cool. What gear does he have?


But don't use a Rhino to represent a Monolith or Gretchin to represent Terminators, and at some point you might want to consider buying the actual models you want to play with.

And keep one thing in mind; If you constantly test armies, and constantly proxy, and constantly use the same tired old models to represent whatever....people WILL get annoyed and eventually stop playing with you

I think WYSIWYG in a tournament is an absolute must. In friendly games, I don't really care all that much. That being said, I've run into people who who use WYSIWYG as a reason to deny the use of scratchbuilt models before. (I was once told by a player that I couldn't use my Vulkan because I hadn't painted scales on his cloak.)

The more competitive the setting, the more important WYSIWYG becomes, but I tend to like it to be as close as possible. In a more casual/friendly environment, it can be more relaxed, but if you are going to deviate, at least make it consistent. If you want all the flamers to be metlas, thats fine, but don't make some of the meltas and some of them flamers, or something like that. I don't want to have to keep track of your models so much that it creates confusion or takes away from the game.

I only care if it is easy to tell if something is different.

WYSIWYG it wouldnt be allowed. I dislike it because it forces you to have specific models of expensive costs for whatever youre doing, but its there so noone can whine about their Rhino being a Landraider proxy (even though thats a bit of a stretch).
Friendly-game wise, i atleast want some kind of visual difference so i can remember whats what. I painted a random 12 sluggaboyz green instead of just black primed so when i use them as stormboyz or kommandos they stand out from any other sluggas i may have in there.

The only way i'd allow a sword to count as a power fist/klaw is if its the ONLY sword in your army. I have a gimmicky idea for an ork nob using a power sword and lots of greenstuff to make him look like Link from Zelda, if ie ver ran him he'd be a Pklaw and since its literally the only sword in my list you cant say its confusing which was the Pk (not to mention the green tunic or shield lol)

personally I don't really care as long as you tell me beforehand. However I think that a line is drawn at saying that a model is some completely unrelated model just because they don't want to buy it. so for instance substituting weapons is fine but saying "I know that that really like a war walker but really hes is an avatar" is overboard

I don't mind, proxies as long as some effort is put in to make it look decent. It is an expensive hobby and i know times are tough so i don't get anal if someone is calling things different names as long they don't try to screw me over later by "accidently" forgetting that that lascannon wasn't actually a lascannon when it fires at something of mine.

As for drop pods, i would never expect someone to out and by a bunch of those damn things, at least a rhino chasis has multiple uses but wtf can you do with a drop pod other than drop it. I used Solo plastic cups for drop pods for a couple games but i painted them to match my army because i care more about aesthetic than anything else in this game.

The most extreme proxies ive done were atleast the right size lol. Im often short on loota numbers, so i grab random space marines from my friend's insanely huge army he has on the shelves as more lootas lol....but friendly game wise who cares.
I even used Terminators as killa kans just to dick around with'm rofl

Droppods are a bit weird, but i say you should buy atleast 1 of the actual model so you have "actual model" to compare to. Local nids player doesnt have any spore pods, so he uses soda cans - i know the spore pod is shaped oddly, but ive never seen one irl so i cant compare.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


Droppods are a bit weird, but i say you should buy atleast 1 of the actual model so you have "actual model" to compare to. Local nids player doesnt have any spore pods, so he uses soda cans - i know the spore pod is shaped oddly, but ive never seen one irl so i cant compare.

Spore pods don't have models. Best way to do it is get a tennis/nerf ball, cut a bit of the bottom off and put it on large base. Then cover it in green stuff.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Local nids player doesnt have any spore pods, so he uses soda cans - i know the spore pod is shaped oddly, but ive never seen one irl so i cant compare.

There's a good reason why he doesn't have any Mycetic Spore models and you've never seen one. It's because they don't actually exist. Every Mycetic Spore is either third-party or scratch-built.

I agree with WYSIWYG for the most part as it helps reduce confusion.
In freindly games I would say that thenumber of proxie units you field would determine wether or not I would feel ok with it. If only one or two units is not WYSIWYG then I would not have an issue. More than a couple units and things get confusing. In tourni's since most people make an effort to paint and play an army that is converted to match the units in their list, I would say you should not proxie units.

Question what if trying to find combi weapons is a real pain amd your modeling skills (conversion ?) are sad. Only reason i bring this up is a game i played a guy refused to play me in a friendly tournament due to this. Everyone else was ok with the layout i came up with red bolt guns combi flamers, blue are combi meltas but him. I just can't justify 9.00-10.00 per combi weapon.

My .000002 cents

Really there isnt an official model for spore pods? Thats really weird....i mean Wazdakka doesnt have a model either but hes also a special character that screams KUSTOMIZE ME BRAH! in order to get on the table.
Seeing as how theyre actually a MC, you'd think thered be an official model to clarify size for LOS reasons.

 Novelist47 wrote:
So WYSIWYG. I understand its purpose and how someone who went the extra mile to get/build say a power fist can get pissed at someone claiming that a sword counts as the same thing.
However I think it would be more versatile if we could do just that. .

It would be even more versatile if we just used pieces of paper and wrote the unit types and weapons on them, by the same token.

Or just...

 Lobukia wrote:
If I have to keep track of something in your army, that doesn't look like it should, I'm asking you to either pay the points for the model you have or not field the model.

In your example

1) maybe once, but not a month later (go get some flamers if you want flamers)
2) Follow it, its a miniatures game, your minatures should be correct.

lynxstrife wrote:
Question what if trying to find combi weapons is a real pain amd your modeling skills (conversion ?) are sad. Only reason i bring this up is a game i played a guy refused to play me in a friendly tournament due to this. Everyone else was ok with the layout i came up with red bolt guns combi flamers, blue are combi meltas but him. I just can't justify 9.00-10.00 per combi weapon.

There are much cheaper alternatives, including:

1. Buying third party alternatives.
2. Converting combi weapons from similar weapons/bits
3. Scratch building conversion parts with plastic and/or green stuff.

There are threads about all of the above on this forum, including some very inexpensive and not too difficult tutorials.

i dont like the idea of wysiwyg... For vehicles and stuff, i understand, its pretty easy.

Though if i just said 'all my predators have x weapons', then you know that they all have them, and it makes them easy.

Or the special weapons in my grey hunters are flamers, instead of plasma guns (which are modelled onto my units), im not gonna go out and spend another $62 when I dont have to. I'm telling you whats in the unit, if you're looking close enough to shoot at them, then before you do, i will inform you again..

 Mannahnin wrote:

lynxstrife wrote:
Question what if trying to find combi weapons is a real pain amd your modeling skills (conversion ?) are sad. Only reason i bring this up is a game i played a guy refused to play me in a friendly tournament due to this. Everyone else was ok with the layout i came up with red bolt guns combi flamers, blue are combi meltas but him. I just can't justify 9.00-10.00 per combi weapon.

There are much cheaper alternatives, including:

1. Buying third party alternatives.
2. Converting combi weapons from similar weapons/bits
3. Scratch building conversion parts with plastic and/or green stuff.

There are threads about all of the above on this forum, including some very inexpensive and not too difficult tutorials.

Having combi bolters painted diferent colors is a lot better then just empty hands and a verbal reminder. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I made a combi flamer out of parts in my bits box, it wasn't that hard. And I'm sure any subsequent ones would go smoother. As far as conversions go, they are pretty simple, you should give it a try.