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So, now that FW killed the Hades drill and instantly made my army illegal I've been searching for a new option. Since I'm limited to veteran squads a standard mech vet list seemed like the answer, especially since I'd had some luck with it in 5th when I wanted to bring an easier list against newer players. However, in 6th I've been encountering two major problems:

1) The 6th edition vehicle rules hate Chimera vets. No more scoring without getting your fragile squad out of the vehicle, explosions are more frequent, 'shaken' results apply to passengers, and hull points crippled their chances of having a transport at the end of the game. So unless I hide them in the back (and remove a major source of firepower) my vets are ending up standing around in the open far away from any objectives. And when 5/6 missions involve objectives this is a very bad thing.

2) The 6th edition metagame hates transports. Necrons are awesome, and Necrons are pretty much designed to kill Chimera spam (tesla spam everywhere and side-armor lightning bolts from their character). Meanwhile flyers are important, and the best way to kill flyers seems to be bringing a large volume of mid-strength shooting, the exact same guns that kill transports efficiently. So even if in theory the vehicle nerfs weren't so bad the metagame ensures that the "standard" 6th edition game is one where Chimera vets die very quickly.

On the other hand, gun tanks are still working fine, and flyers are very powerful. So, my current thoughts on how to deal with this problem:

1) Consider vets in a Chimera just another gun tank. They're often dead and/or out of position by the end of the game if they're using their guns effectively, so don't count them as true scoring units. Instead, they're a 12/10/10 tank with a three-shot melta gun turret, and they're competing with every other gun tank. Scoring is a minor side benefit, their real value will be in how they kill stuff.

2) Emphasize killing over scoring. Bring overwhelming firepower and remove every opposing scoring unit from the table, so that a token Harker squad on a quad gun/Sabre platoon/Vendetta vet drop/etc can claim an objective and win the game. Most likely this means a major reduction in scoring units, I've given serious thought to an 1850 ABG list that contains a single allied Harker squad as its only scoring unit.

3) Use the points freed up to bring even more flyers/artillery/etc.

The one thing I'm not sure on is whether the Chimera veterans even have a place anymore. There's a big potential advantage to limiting the army to infantry and AV 14 + flyers, so should there still be veterans beyond the minimum to fill the Vendettas? Consider the following start to a list:

CCS, 4x melta (in Vendetta)

PCS, 4x flamer (in Vendetta)
IS, melta, LC
IS, melta, LC
LC Sabre guns x3

Vets, Harker, plasma x3, LC, camo

So that's a small screening blob, passengers for the Vendetta, amazing scoring AA guns, and a 2+ save unit to sit on your quad gun and babysit your "home" objective. All for only 650 points, assuming you're already bringing the Vendettas (which is a safe assumption). Now spend the rest of the points on tanks and aircraft and you have a "mech" list that doesn't actually have any Chimera troops.

I don't think chimeras would make very good gun tanks, being pretty expensive for the firepower (most of which very, very short ranged). As a defensive thing, sure, but I'd rather spend 180 points on a properly kitted russ than that many points on a mechvet squad, if what you're looking for is just a gunboat.

I've certainly been seeing the shift of balance go from boys to toys in 6th edition. With all the benefits that shooting got, and with how you don't really need to care about assault, I'd agree that going for higher-firepower options are probably better. The best way to keep your chimeras alive is to kill the things that are good against chimeras.

Also, you do note what chimeras lost, but chimeras also did gain. No longer can they be prevented from moving forward by glancing hits, and they have a much easier time getting cover saves when they're starting out on the line at the beginning of the game. Now, they can also move 18", which is pretty quick. Also, the multilaser got better in killing power against other transports just as other things got better against your transports, and heavy bolters can now focus fire and get to actually use their Ap.

Put another way, chimeras aren't going to survive as long, but you're going to be able to do a lot more with them before they're ruined. You've now just got to think of them more as transports and less as AV12 buildings that people get to hide in.

I'm not an IG player, but as a CSM player, here are my thoughts.

I see much value in Chimeras as weapon platforms. The basic multi laser isn't half bad at threatening flyers, MCs and infantry. Yes, it's not great but it's workable and available in high numbers. Adding a few (or many) Chimera to an ADL and using their weapons to thin out the enemy ranks seems like a viable option. Might even consider giving Vets a heavy weapon to add more long range firepower. Keep this up the first few turns of the game.

For the second half of the game, load your remaining scoring units in any remaining Chimera and go full out towards an objective. The ability to move 18" should get you fairly close to wherever you need to be and you only need to hold the objective for the last turn. Once you're close enough, disemark and move your infantry onto the objective while the Chimera screens them or goes back into fire support mode, either way it's disposable at this point.

Hopefully, 5-6 Chimera and 50-60 Vets will have enough surviving bodies to claim enough objectives to win. If not, it may be time to consider adding some basic infantry squads.

Anyway, just a traitor marine's 2 cents.

 Ailaros wrote:
You've now just got to think of them more as transports and less as AV12 buildings that people get to hide in.

The problem is that mech guard depends on the Chimera for protection. Vets outside of their AV 12 bunker are too squishy to hold an objective, so if your Chimeras get blown up early (as they seem to do now) in your opponent's half of the table (where they'll be if you want to use their passengers) you have very little chance of holding objectives.

 minigun762 wrote:
I see much value in Chimeras as weapon platforms. The basic multi laser isn't half bad at threatening flyers, MCs and infantry. Yes, it's not great but it's workable and available in high numbers. Adding a few (or many) Chimera to an ADL and using their weapons to thin out the enemy ranks seems like a viable option. Might even consider giving Vets a heavy weapon to add more long range firepower. Keep this up the first few turns of the game.

This is not a viable plan. Chimeras that aren't delivering their passengers into effective firing range are not even close to point-efficient. Having a 150+ point melta vet Chimera sitting behind an aegis line and throwing out the occasional multilaser hit is a complete waste, you're better off removing scoring units entirely at that point.

For the second half of the game, load your remaining scoring units in any remaining Chimera and go full out towards an objective. The ability to move 18" should get you fairly close to wherever you need to be and you only need to hold the objective for the last turn. Once you're close enough, disemark and move your infantry onto the objective while the Chimera screens them or goes back into fire support mode, either way it's disposable at this point.

Meanwhile, since you're moving flat out, your veteran squads aren't doing any shooting. And there's no point in playing mech IG if you're not making use of your melta/plasma spam.

Hopefully, 5-6 Chimera and 50-60 Vets will have enough surviving bodies to claim enough objectives to win.

5-6 Chimeras is 750-1000 points. That's way too many points to spend on units that don't contribute anything until late in the game.

If not, it may be time to consider adding some basic infantry squads.

Which is exactly the problem: once you start adding major foot elements you lose target saturation and make life even more difficult for your tanks and Chimeras. If veterans alone can't win the game then mech IG is pretty much dead.

I've recently had a lot of success running multiple Leman Russ tanks with a couple of chimeras tagging along behind as fast reation units, and a blob led by a lord commissar for support. I placed 9th out of 50 at a tourney earlier today; suffering my only significant loss against the new daemons.
I had a game against a mech guard player, but his chimeras didn't end up doing much, and his scoring units met their ends fairly quickly, as chimeras, without proper protection, die VERY quickly, especially if they have to make their way up-field.

If you're interested; here's my list:

Equinox (1750pts)
1750pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Primary Detachment)
Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) (Primary Detachment) Selections:
HQ

Lord Commissar
Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

Troops

Infantry Platoon

Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Mortar

Infantry Squad
Plasma Gun
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Plasma Gun
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Plasma Gun
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Infantry Squad
Plasma Gun
Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Platoon Command Squad
4x Flamer
Chimera
Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad
6x Lasgun, 3x Meltagun
Chimera
Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship Squadron
Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Vendetta Gunship Squadron
Vendetta
2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Squadron
Leman Russ Demolisher
Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ Squadron
Leman Russ Exterminator
Lascannon, Multi-meltas
Leman Russ Exterminator
Lascannon, Multi-meltas

Leman Russ Squadron
Leman Russ Executioner
Lascannon, Plasma Cannons

Hope that gave you some ideas

 undead flesh addict wrote:
If you're interested; here's my list:

And here's the problem I'm talking about. To be successful you've reduced the mech element to a single veteran squad and a flamer PCS. By both model/unit count and point total you're playing a foot IG list that happens to have a couple Chimeras. In fact, remove those Chimeras and put their squads in the Vendettas and your list hasn't changed significantly.

So to answer your question more directly; yes, mech IG is dead. It could do well against some lists, but as you mentioned in the original post, necrons a big problem, and they'll be going strong for a while.

I am having moderate success running mech-lite. My list is as follows:
HQ:
CCS: 180
2xPlasma Pistol
4x Plasma Guns
Master of the Fleet
Carapace
Chimera:55
ML/HF

Primaris Psyker: 70

Elites:
Marbo: 65

Troops:
Platoon
PCS: 50
4x flamers
Chimera: 55
ML/HF

Infantry Squad: 115
Lascannon
Commissar
Melta gun

Infantry Squad: 80
Lascannon
Melta gun

Infantry Squad: 80
Lascannon
Melta gun

Veterans: 125
Plasma Pistol
3x Plasma Guns
Chimera: 55
ML/HF

Veterans: 125
Plasma Pistol
3x Plasma Guns
Chimera: 55
ML/HF

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Demolisher: 165

Leman Russ Demolisher: 165

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line: 100
Quad Gun

Allied Blood Angels:
HQ:
Librarian: 100
Blood Lance, Fear the Darkness

Troops:
Assault Squad: 210
+5 men
2x Melta

This list has been successful because it presents multiple threats. Basically, all the mech elements speed forward while the blob camps my objective and marbo/ Assault squad deepstrikes. What do you shoot? I have a 30 man blob that isn't going away with reroll to hit from the BA, but I also have mechanized elements in your face. And all the while I have accurate deepstrike units waiting in the wings to jump on your scary stuff. Modern mech, at least from my experience, dose not win games because it survives long, but because it overwhelms your opponent with very credible threats to the point that they can't do anything. Your average opponent will have a plan for multiple tanks, but I have NEVER seen someone who would have the capability to kill all of the tanks I run in one turn (at least in my meta).

 Peregrine wrote:


1) The 6th edition vehicle rules hate Chimera vets.

I'm not finding this to be as much of an issue as I thought it would be. It requires some forward planning, although in some games it results in a dead vet squad.

2) The 6th edition metagame hates transports.

This is where I'm finding it tough. Chimerae are just too easy to open up. I chose mech because I wanted a mobile force who didn't care about cover, but I find my chimerae hugging cover constantly. I'm scared to bring them out into the open because I know they're going to turn into a camo-patterned coffin for the vets inside.
What's more the AV:10 on the side is just awful. At least land speeders get jink; the chimerae can't get into very good positions or even bolters will take away their hull points and leave the vets stranded. It's very hard to keep them up and running.
Then you have the Heldrake, which is everywhere. With mech you're essentially bringing marine costed units that the Heldrake doesn't care about. Just as easy to kill, and against Harker squads the Heldrake will remove them in one go.

Going for an all out: kill or be killed type of list makes for games that are far too binary. You either have a great turn of shooting where you cripple your opponent who can't recover, or you roll average and you lose. I'm not interested in flipping a coin with guard.

The list I find most effective is similar to the foot list you posted, except with allies. The problem is at 1500pts allies are very hard to fit in. Most of the tournaments I've attended are 1500pts with only a few 1750. I hate to say it, because I love the chimera model: but yes, I think mech guard is dead.

My friend who is still having pretty decent success with mech but his direction has shifted a bit, instead of just fielding veterans in chimera's he's been taking less vets and adding in infantry platoons in chimera's. Yes you loose out on the bs4 and extra 2 spc weapons but he's got many more bodies on the board and many more chimeras to boot. It's been fairly effective for him so far using it in conjunction with all the other av 12 platforms such as the hellhound and various artillery vehicles.

I've abandoned my hopes for playing mech guard, don't want that many chimeras. And my vietnam themed catachans have been having great success with 3+ flyers in 1000pts lol. Or alternatively foot not as much success with foot and leman russ saturation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot to note he plays armageddon steel legion and is still hooked on the old mechanized regiment rules/fluff from, the 3.5 codex lol. But as I said his win ratio hasn't been to shabby. Mine has been hit miss mostly because I've been playing 2 many pair games and losing or tieing on a single measly victory point.

Also, I'd note that if people think mech guard is dead, try foot guard. Mech guard both lost and gained in 6th. Foot guard straight lost.

It will be better to make a go of it with mech, as it's still the best style of guard, rather than to buy and paint 90 infantry models only to get tabled a few times and a row and go back to mech.

Because for the price of two PISs, you get a PIS and a transport. Chimeras may be less durable, but infantry are less durable-er. And that's nothing to say about the force concentration problems of foot lists. I'd rather have the chimera at the moment.

Ailaros I agree, your take on foot guard is struggling, but that's because you have put unnecessary limitations on your lists that other people don't.
I have no qualms in taking three Vendettas, taking allies or taking FW units. All of them really add up to make something very strong.
I'll always side with those people who don't want to do any of those things, because it does irritate me that I have to to make the most competitive list I can, but personally, I don't mind if it means I'm going to win.

I tend to see 3 major builds of IG

Foot-Guard

Foot guard straight up lost strength and gained nothing. It can win, but it will be a much tougher fight

Mech-Guard

Mech won and lost. Vehicles are easier to destroy, but foot lists took such a hit that Mech shines

Air-Cav

With 6th Flier rules, and the Vendetta, Air-Cav is probably one of the best builds. And all it pretty much requires is taking all your vet squads and substituting in Vendetta's instead of Chimeras. Vendetta's in the big amounts you will need pretty much take care of any AT you need. Vets that are properly armed can kill infantry. Only thing is that you will struggle with hordes, but hopefully the hits against foot lists will limit the hordes you will see

EDIT: Also, Vultures are just awesome

But you can add vendettas &c. to mech lists as well. Because the options for support units are the same, you have to look at just the difference between mechvets and infantry platoons.

Traditionally, the difference has been that infantry platoons are more durable and can bring more raw firepower, while mech lists are more mobile and have much better force concentration.

In 6th, though, a lot of that durability has been stripped away from foot lists, what with not having properly hidden upgrades, the addition of focus fire, and a bunch of other things.

Furthermore, getting your bonus firepower to their target is much more awkward for infantry platoons nowadays, what with not being able to put those weapon upgrades at the front, and not being able to advance up field thanks to the loss of by-unit cover, so even if you're bringing more guns at the beginning, you're not actually necessarily doing any more damage.

Add in the fact that you can't seriously run an assault army anymore, which was always a bonus to foot guard, and you've got a situation where infantry platoons got universally worse. Meanwhile, mech lists have gotten MORE mobile, and still have their advantages of force concentration.

I'm not saying that infantry guard is good, I'm saying that all the factors that you limit yourself from using make it good.
Mech lost a lot of its mobility and durability. Foot may have lost durability, but what it's lost there, it's gained in allies. Allies fix the majority of issues that you've put forward concerning the weakness of foot guard.
It's also moved more towards the gun-line, which while is less fun to play, is horribly powerful. T7 artillery that can recieve orders, T7 TL lascannons with interceptor, ATSKNF for blobs, tough units in drop pods. When you combine this you get some serious synergy and something that's far more powerful than pure Codex: IG.

I've been inactive for a month or two now, but I tend to agree with Ailaros. Mech IG should still be the best if you don't want to play a full flyer army. 3/9/18 Vendettas carrying the scoring units and exclusively tanks and artillery on the ground should work like a charm, but I don't have enough Vendettas for that, so I still prefer mech as foot guard gets swept very quickly if they advance in my experience. I'll re-try a quasi-static gunline list sometime, but I don't imagine it will work out very well.

IMO, one serious problem that wasn't mentioned is that vehicles are much easier to hit in 6th, which makes melta Chimeras super vulnerable to screening fast enemy units w/S4 or higher-any SM with a jump pack, Stormboyz, any type of Bike/Jetbike, etc. if they try to get stuff in range.

Of course, the shift to mid strength dakka and the invention of HPs doesn't help either, but I'd say mech IG lives, if only hooked up to an artificial rebreather.

Tournament play? No idea.

Competitive non tournament play? Sure.

This is not a viable plan. Chimeras that aren't delivering their passengers into effective firing range are not even close to point-efficient. Having a 150+ point melta vet Chimera sitting behind an aegis line and throwing out the occasional multilaser hit is a complete waste, you're better off removing scoring units entirely at that point.

Meanwhile, since you're moving flat out, your veteran squads aren't doing any shooting. And there's no point in playing mech IG if you're not making use of your melta/plasma spam.

If you try to get Chimera into short range, you can move 12" and snap fire everything which isn't very impressive. You can move 18" to forgo one turn of shooting to follow up the next turn with full firepower (hopefully).

The problem is that there is no effective way to move significant distance while maintaining full firepower. You can mitigate the range issue somewhat by switching to plasma vets and moving at combat speed every turn. This should give you the full BS multilaser and 3 plasma shots with an effective range of 30".

 minigun762 wrote:

This is not a viable plan. Chimeras that aren't delivering their passengers into effective firing range are not even close to point-efficient. Having a 150+ point melta vet Chimera sitting behind an aegis line and throwing out the occasional multilaser hit is a complete waste, you're better off removing scoring units entirely at that point.

Meanwhile, since you're moving flat out, your veteran squads aren't doing any shooting. And there's no point in playing mech IG if you're not making use of your melta/plasma spam.

If you try to get Chimera into short range, you can move 12" and snap fire everything which isn't very impressive. You can move 18" to forgo one turn of shooting to follow up the next turn with full firepower (hopefully).

The problem is that there is no effective way to move significant distance while maintaining full firepower. You can mitigate the range issue somewhat by switching to plasma vets and moving at combat speed every turn. This should give you the full BS multilaser and 3 plasma shots with an effective range of 30".

I think we may all be overlooking a very serious and crucial point as well.
That is, what we're expecting from the lack luster fire power of a chimera mounted veteran squad. Think about it.
The chimera multilaser is not a good gun, in this case barely reliable. You can't count on it to do anything but be a minor annoyance at best. So that being said, consider plasmas.
At 24", you're only getting 3 plasma shots off. Thats not very good either, particularly not for 170 points when you have to get in range in the first place.
Don't forget common cover can further reduce your firepower even more.
..& gets hot! Even on a 1, everybody has bad rolls, guardsmen will cook themselves off and this is even more dangerous with sustained fire.

Assuming you can get within the 12" sweet spot for meltas or plasmas, the firepower from one unit probably isn't going to put a major dent in anything.

All these factors taken into consideration, I believe veterans are not nearly as dangerous as we've hyped them to be.

So really, maybe its our tactics that need to be rethought. Lets play to our strengths.
If you don't want to park your chimeras back field, you have to move them up to a distance in which you can engage.
18 inch move is what we should play at to get our boys close, & I think the loss in firepower from a bs3 multilaser, and maybe 3 plasma shots is negligent.
However, moving through the open is a death sentence - there is no reason to rush our chimeras to their untimely demise.
Be wary of getting fooled by the safety of cover. 5+ isn't great and even a 4+ isn't worth gambling on. We're gonna put a huge target on these units.
Moving them from cover to cover, LOS blocking is preferable. This has the added effect of drawing opponents into your sweet spot for weapons range.

We need to buff the firepower of a single veteran chimera to count on the tactic. This plays to our other strength, target saturation.
I think chimeras should be played as packs. Groups no smaller then 3, bounding between and behind terrain.
I'm gonna throw this out there too, that our hellhound variants may be sorely overlooked in that they can really help with the offensive capability of such a tactic.
The hellhounds' speed allows them to keep up, adds more juicy targets and most importantly, adds a good strong amount of firepower.

Foot guard is not so bad as people make it out to be. Rather, in itself - maybe, but combined arms is our strength. A platoon in cover in our deployment is tough to move.
Our artillery is very strong, and we want to hide our CCS/take advantage of their orders. So I think the most viable build is

An infantry platoon, lascannon/plasma squads sitting in terrain or behind an aegis on an objective with the CCS and our artillery. This gives firepower from turn 1 and an anvil to break.
A pack of chimera chassis skipping from point to point, some combination of mounted infantry squads/veterans and hellhounds.
Gunships and lemans to taste.

CaseyColt wrote:
An infantry platoon, lascannon/plasma squads sitting in terrain or behind an aegis on an objective with the CCS and our artillery. This gives firepower from turn 1 and an anvil to break.
A pack of chimera chassis skipping from point to point, some combination of mounted infantry squads/veterans and hellhounds.
Gunships and lemans to taste.

This sounds like a really bad idea. You've got a little of everything, but no focus on anything. That means no target saturation, no redundancy, etc. You might do well against similarly unfocused opponents but to be really competitive you need to pick something and be the best at it, not try to do everything at once.

 Peregrine wrote:

CaseyColt wrote:
An infantry platoon, lascannon/plasma squads sitting in terrain or behind an aegis on an objective with the CCS and our artillery. This gives firepower from turn 1 and an anvil to break.
A pack of chimera chassis skipping from point to point, some combination of mounted infantry squads/veterans and hellhounds.
Gunships and lemans to taste.

This sounds like a really bad idea. You've got a little of everything, but no focus on anything. That means no target saturation, no redundancy, etc. You might do well against similarly unfocused opponents but to be really competitive you need to pick something and be the best at it, not try to do everything at once.

What do you think about what I said in regards to the chimeras though?

Makes sense still, I get what you're saying. I suppose if you want to play very competitively, you have to embrace such a linear very competitive dynamic.

I'm under the impression Ailaros and Peregrine don't like the spammy lists or WAAC lists, but I've seen countless vet squad + chimera spam lists in the Lists forum and on battle reports. 1 chimera isn't as effective as it used to be but 6-8 still gets the job done.

As a player and list building I find it hard to squeeze enought AT into a list to take out a reasonable number of Chimeras a turn and still be able to deal with the vets that pop out of it. Your target saturation stays the same (-1 chimera +1 squad).

I'm pretty sure Peregrine likes her competitive lists lol.

Peregrine wrote:

CaseyColt wrote:
An infantry platoon, lascannon/plasma squads sitting in terrain or behind an aegis on an objective with the CCS and our artillery. This gives firepower from turn 1 and an anvil to break.
A pack of chimera chassis skipping from point to point, some combination of mounted infantry squads/veterans and hellhounds.
Gunships and lemans to taste.

This sounds like a really bad idea. You've got a little of everything, but no focus on anything. That means no target saturation, no redundancy, etc. You might do well against similarly unfocused opponents but to be really competitive you need to pick something and be the best at it, not try to do everything at once.

Agreed. The Guard can't get by with very generalist approaches. We need to focus on outgunning/outnumbering our opponent so much in one area that they are overwhelmed. That's why we're called the sledgehammer of the Imperium after all. Leave the "little of everything" to the Space Marines who can actually do that and survive

Griddlelol wrote:I'm pretty sure Peregrine likes her competitive lists lol.

Im sorry to make an off-topic comment here, but is Peregrine actually a girl and I've just been really ignorant and never learned this? Nothing actually gives it away to me haha, im so sorry

Dare I suggest Mech IG switched from Amphibious Personnel Carriers to Flying Personnel Carriers?

I've been having some lovely luck stuffing Veterans into Vendettas and Valkyries, and just filling HS slots with Medusa Artillery Carriages and a Manticore behind an Aegis. Solid Alphastrike, and then flyers come on and the game is in the bag.

 Wingeds wrote:
I'm under the impression Ailaros and Peregrine don't like the spammy lists or WAAC lists, but I've seen countless vet squad + chimera spam lists in the Lists forum and on battle reports. 1 chimera isn't as effective as it used to be but 6-8 still gets the job done.

Ailaros has some weird restrictions about what units he's willing to use.

I love spammy lists. I might not always play them because I'm too busy building different models, but in general I always design the most powerful version of a list and then work from there. My current low opinion of Chimera spam isn't because it's spam, it's because I'm starting to think that it isn't a very effective strategy.

I am currently having some success with Mech IG in my area.

Yes, they suffer from what everybody has has noted above but they gained a few more things which "kinda balances" the issues. Like snap firing when shaken etc.. Some people forget that you can overwatch out of the chimera, so thats 5x models snap firing something nasty usually.

I personally think one of the reasons am doing well atm in my area is, everybody ditched their transports. Its nearly all foot. So nearly everybody is packing more anti-infantry firepower and they have reduced what anti - tank they have.

This helps my current list, a rolling av12 wall is hard to deal with if you havn't planned for that amount of armour.

I am also enjoying the combo of mass multi-lasers and heavy flamers.

I like the ability to change what wep i need depending on how close the enemy is. I find, once 1x chimera has been charged by a unit of orks or something. Regardless of the result, they get bunched up by the charge move then the other chimeras' heavy flamers go to work

The thing is, everything you said can be applied to foot lists too. A blob of 40 men, with prescience has a far more devastating overwatch potential than 10 vets.

I've also had a lot of success with a mech list, but I played it for fun, not because it was particularly competitive. It plays into the current meta's idea of bringing plasma. Plasma doesn't have a problem with destroying my chimerae, it does however fall short when trying to KO fliers or when spent on killing two 5pt guardsmen.

I'd definitely like to see some potential lists that are more than chimera spam, without forge world or allies.

I think it depends on how you use the chimeras with vets. If your plan was to rush up the field and unload with your plasma and melta guns, that plan is not going to work very well. Anything out in the open now gets murdered. Be that light vehicles or infantry.

However, if you take artillery and hide it out of line of sight you can rain high S shots on your enemy without them being able to retaliate. Then your opponent has to come to you. This is where 3-4 chimeras full of vets can make for excellent counter attacking forces. The chimera also protects the guys inside from getting hit by a bale flamer or tesla for at least a turn. The explosion will kill some, but I'd rather take a chance on that than just be shot right away.

As most have pointed out in this thread, infantry is just terrible now (unless you can make bikes or terminators scoring). There's no good way to get across the table for them. Walking is out of the question and transports aren't very good at actually transporting. So what does infantry do now? They hold objectives. So what you need for that are cheap bodies that are not going to break. If you can take a few cheap units that fulfill that criteria, that's all you can expect from them.

This edition is about toys and cheap boys.