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 Griddlelol wrote:

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 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Yeah it's bugging me too. If this strategy ends up being as boring as it sounds I may shelve my IG for a while, or just use them for silly games.

Now this sounds like whining, so there's no point in hiding it:

But I don't wanna!

If I wanna whine I'm gonna whine. You can't stop me!

But in all seriousness I haven't even given the style yet so who knows, it may be more fun than I realize. But you have to admit, the idea of just lining up across from your opponent and doing nothing but shoot doesn't exactly sound like the most exciting game ever. I've got some ideas to keep the game interesting, but I'm not exactly sure how well they'll work out...

Put the Vets and Stromtroops in vendettas
Put a CCS in the backfeild give it a MoO
and small platoon in your enfeild to handle any deep strikes
some basic Leman Battle Tanks back with them
mabey a squadron of hydras to keep enemy air at bay and make them think

take marbo..he hurts a lot

IG Combined Arms is the hardest army for Orks to beat
(4 pie plates per turn anywhere on the board hurts a LOT)
vets dropping in on objectives with dedicated artillery support and dedicated air support makes it hard to stop

MrMoustaffa wrote:I've also noticed that more and more lately, I've just been going for "crush the opponent so he can't kill my scoring units" instead of just playing the objectives like a normal player would. Technically, the "kill everything so we can just hold the only objective at the end of the game" is still playing the objective, but it feels like a really weird way to go about it.

I've certainly found this to be true so far, and it's kind of annoying. Yes, I know I play GUARD, but that shouldn't mean that a gunline is the ONLY thing I can do.

So, something has struck me recently. Perhaps what we're all missing is that FA and other up-mobile choices (in the case of guard, stormtroopers, for example), are actually worth taking for their speed. In 5th ed, it didn't matter, but perhaps what we're all missing is that time has become a more actual variable than it was in previous editions.

Perhaps 6th ed has made them viable by making everything else painfully unable to cross open ground.

 Ailaros wrote:

I've certainly found this to be true so far, and it's kind of annoying. Yes, I know I play GUARD, but that shouldn't mean that a gunline is the ONLY thing I can do.

Gunlines are one army type that was barely hurt in 6th. If anything, more emphasis was placed on ranged firepower than ever. However, it feels kinda stupid to simply castle and fire every turn without involving any strategy. Personally, I'll prefer a mech or blob list and a possible loss every time, but sadly, it does look like that is the most competitive build for anyone who can't afford to (or simply doesn't want to) field a Vendetta spam list.

 Ailaros wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I've also noticed that more and more lately, I've just been going for "crush the opponent so he can't kill my scoring units" instead of just playing the objectives like a normal player would. Technically, the "kill everything so we can just hold the only objective at the end of the game" is still playing the objective, but it feels like a really weird way to go about it.

I've certainly found this to be true so far, and it's kind of annoying. Yes, I know I play GUARD, but that shouldn't mean that a gunline is the ONLY thing I can do.

So, something has struck me recently. Perhaps what we're all missing is that FA and other up-mobile choices (in the case of guard, stormtroopers, for example), are actually worth taking for their speed. In 5th ed, it didn't matter, but perhaps what we're all missing is that time has become a more actual variable than it was in previous editions.

Perhaps 6th ed has made them viable by making everything else painfully unable to cross open ground.

Vendettas and cheap platoon infantry squads/pcs

The cheaper the better since they are probably going to spend the first 3 or 4 turns hiding in their bird.

The PCS in a vendetta is actually 5 points cheaper than 5 warriors in a scythe, and the 10 man infantry squad is only 15 points more. 10 bodies that are going to go to ground at the first sign of trouble is actually more durable than 5 bodies with reanimation protocols.

Yes, but the vendetta is not a dedicated transport so you need to take squadrons. Squadrons aren't as bad as they were before, but they're still only one target instead of multiple ones. Being able to fire onto only one target is not as great either. The disembarkation is much easier for Necrons than grav-chute insertion, which is basically suicide on a terrain filled table. Plus, the occupants of the scythe are not dying a horrible burning death when their transport comes crashing down.

The other issue is that guard don't have the great units that Necrons do that can be trotted out for the first few turns while you wait for your flyers to come in.

Let's not directly compare IG and the Necrons. One of the cheesiest current codices, they're undoubtedly "stronger" than us-MSS, Wraiths w/WC, D-Lords, Royal Courts, MEQ saves throughout most of the codex, Lychguard, Zahndrekh... You can't argue with those. However, pretty much everyone takes IG allies nowadays just to get Vendettas, and I doubt that many people are wrong-the Vendetta is currently one of the best units in 40k in performance/cost figures.

The Vendetta enjoys a huge anti-vehicle firepower advantage vs. the Night Scythe, and the occupants are more often than not a lot cheaper and more expendable than the occupants of a typical Scythe, so again, I don't think direct comparison has any merit in this case.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
But in all seriousness I haven't even given the style yet so who knows, it may be more fun than I realize. But you have to admit, the idea of just lining up across from your opponent and doing nothing but shoot doesn't exactly sound like the most exciting game ever. I've got some ideas to keep the game interesting, but I'm not exactly sure how well they'll work out...

Bringing a maximum-firepower list and tabling your opponent doesn't necessarily mean bringing a gunline. A Hellhound squadron that rushes up the table and wipes a scoring unit off an objective is still contributing to the "kill everything that scores" plan, Vendettas/Vultures/Avengers are great maximum-firepower choices that (obviously) do a lot of moving, etc. You're going to have some kind of static element (Sabre platoon and heavy artillery IMO) to hold one objective and make use of our extremely efficient static guns, but that still leaves plenty of room for mobile units.


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 Ailaros wrote:
So, something has struck me recently. Perhaps what we're all missing is that FA and other up-mobile choices (in the case of guard, stormtroopers, for example), are actually worth taking for their speed. In 5th ed, it didn't matter, but perhaps what we're all missing is that time has become a more actual variable than it was in previous editions.

So pretty much what you're saying is you finally admit that Vendettas are mandatory in 6th? Does this mean we'll start to see a few of them in your battle reports, or will you just post another thread about how to pick the right sponsons to make your Leman Russes a fast threat?

bogalubov wrote:

Yes, but the vendetta is not a dedicated transport so you need to take squadrons. Squadrons aren't as bad as they were before, but they're still only one target instead of multiple ones. Being able to fire onto only one target is not as great either. The disembarkation is much easier for Necrons than grav-chute insertion, which is basically suicide on a terrain filled table. Plus, the occupants of the scythe are not dying a horrible burning death when their transport comes crashing down.

The other issue is that guard don't have the great units that Necrons do that can be trotted out for the first few turns while you wait for your flyers to come in.

3 is plenty at 1750/1850. With a pcs and 2 infantry squads that's 520 points in reserve, and it's important to keep some points on the table. Dedicated transport isn't an issue.

As far as fiery crashes go guardsman without upgrades are cheap and are expendable.

Necrons do have their advantages, but so do vendettas. AV12, hover mode, 3 tl lc, and a cheap price. IG, crons, and csm have the best flyers so we shouldn't be complaining.

OK, I played in an RTT on Saturday. There were two straight up IG players, both full mech. Another IG with an eccentric traitor guard list (Ratlings, Penal Legion x4, Ork aliies,) two DE, two CSM, two C:SM Ultras, and a lonely pure Ork. Some of the players were pretty new to the game, so how you finished had something to do with whom you played, but that said I came in third. One of the Ultras won, and the strange IG list came in second. These were, as an aside, the two most skilled players there. The other mech IG player came in 5th.

I ran a CCS with a lascannon in a chimera, two vet squads with 3x flamers in chimeras, two vet squads with 3x melta in Vendettas, a LR Exterminator with HB sponsons, two vanilla LR in a squadron, and a Manticore. I ended up with a draw against one DE, a close loss to the traitor guard (the dice gods failed me in that one) and tabled the other DE.

What does this tell us about mech IG? Not much. My list was a tough one for DE, their vehicles are too easy to knock down and all my templates and blasts are hard for them to deal with. The traitor guard list was a challenge, with 6 outflanking units. The other mech player took 3 Vendettas and a Thunderbolt, so his results are skewed.

I do think once the Tau book comes out I may have to put at least my Chimeras away for awhile. The Vendettas too, possibly. Even one quad gun is a pretty good answer for a small number of flyers. Multiple units with skyfire and the choice to use it? Unless you run more than 3 flyers, and only a tool would do that, you are in trouble. I'll probably go back to the lists I ran when 6th first came out: blob with Rune Priest, mobile GH squads instead of vets, and lots of AV 14.

Bb