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I've always been fond of Dreds. Cool kits, great fluff. I was turned off by all the 'Chicken Little' types, but have found that HP aren't as nerfing as one can be lead to believe. This thread, however, is not to debate that. Any unit can be used, so I don't want to turn this into whether or not they're a viable unit, just how they can be used effectively to one extent or another, without spamming.

I know 6th has changed their roles and that's fine. I've tried finding info on using them effectively in 6th, but other than spamming, all I can find are the outraging threads from when 6th was released. I'm re-working my army list with a CC/Assault focus, but could use some midfield fire support for my infantry. I believe Dreads will work in this support role just fine. I'm just not sure how to go about it.

I plan on trying to incorporate Bjorn, and maybe some regular dreads into my list, but starting with Bjorn most likely. Maybe pair him up with a small unit of GH for support, and a Predator and have them advance behind infantry?

Moving on from the HP and viability debates, maybe we can come up with some new roles, uses, and loadouts to make them more viable in 6th, even if they aren't what they used to be. What ideas do you all have?

Well, since you mention Bjorn and GH this bears the question: Are you limiting yourself to Space Wolves? The dreadnought options open much wider if you look at other chapters.

For now yes. I don't have any plans to play other chapters, so Bjorn and your 'stock' varieties are all I've got.

I'm sure others are looking for info too, so more info is ok.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Bjorn specifically, if paired with a group of GH with PG, I was thinking about swapping his assault cannon out for the TL LC, even though it's more expensive than the PC.

The following is from a C:SM perspective. Results may differ once you start stapling wolf pelts on and splashing beer everywhere...

I like dreads, always have. I still field mine. Not every game, but that can be said for just about all the units in my army. They are one of those units that can be kitted out to do everything, so no matter the list, they can fit in. I think you could probably sum up their roles in 3 options: Suicide drop, close support, fire support.

Suicide drop is pretty self explanatory. Take a dread with close range weapons, put it in a drop pod, and land next to something you dislike. Hilarity ensues. The classic dread for this is the MM/DCCW(HF) dread, although we also get Ironclads in C:SM, which does the same job, just tougher with more toys and features. Even if they miss with the opening volley, they are a serious threat in the backfield that your opponent can't afford to ignore. This takes some of the pressure off of the rest of your army.

Close support is the TAC of the dread world. These are the guys who walk across the table shoulder to shoulder with the tac squads, acting as the big brother, ready to step up and deal with anything that threatens the little guys. I like the Assault cannon paired with the DCCW(SB). Keeping the fist is one of the hallmarks of this job. You want enough shooting to contribute as you stride across the table, but if something gets in your way, you tear it a new one with the fist. I'd stick with the more general purpose guns here. AsC or PC. They also work well as troubleshooters in gunline armies.

Fire support are all those riflemen dreads we see in lists. Park yourself behind some cover and keep shooting at things all game. You are usually ignoring the movement abilities of the walker, but can reposition if needed with no loss in firepower. The 2xTLAC rifleman we see excels in popping light armor, but there are more options. The TLLC/ML gets less shots, but hits harder. I fielded one in the last tournament I played in, part a a doubles game. Stuck him on top of the tower of a FoR. Nice clean LOS when you are a foot off the table, shooting down at flyers...

Dreads, like all vehicles, work much better in numbers. If you only have one or two units with an armor value, they are going to eat a lascannon early and die. But once you start saturating your opponent's AV fire, the odds go up dramatically for some of them to get the job done. Shots heading towards the dread are not popping rhinos, swatting speeders out of the sky, or taking out preds/vindis.

I've never seen the point of drop podding a Dread unless you are also drop podding the majority of your army as well. Suicide drops for a Dread won't do much of anything by themselves, especially if your opponent doesn't have any armour, as you will kill 2-3 troop models and then lose the dread to the return fire (and it really won't take much from most armies, a single heavy weapon squad or a melta firing model).

I love Dreads, but have a hard time justifying their points costs and the use of an elite slot. I also tend to play against Necrons and Eldar alot, so its almost always a waste of points against those two armies.

Well for the chicken leg problem http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Space_Marine_Legion_Dreadnoughts/DEATH_GUARD_LEGION_CONTEMPTOR_DREADNOUGHT.html

But when I played space wolves (drop pod army) I ran atleast 1 dread in every list. most of the time they were worth there points.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I've never seen the point of drop podding a Dread unless you are also drop podding the majority of your army as well. Suicide drops for a Dread won't do much of anything by themselves, especially if your opponent doesn't have any armour, as you will kill 2-3 troop models and then lose the dread to the return fire (and it really won't take much from most armies, a single heavy weapon squad or a melta firing model).

I love Dreads, but have a hard time justifying their points costs and the use of an elite slot. I also tend to play against Necrons and Eldar alot, so its almost always a waste of points against those two armies.

A drop dread is a good way to reliably get a multi melta next to a target first turn. You drop ~150 points next to a 250+ LR and pop it first turn you made your points back. Plus the assault squad that was inside now has to leg it across the table. Will this happen every game? No. Other uses are dropping them next to that quadgun, to silence the AA fire before your flyers arrive. They are a big, mean, monkey wrench to toss into your opponent's plans. I've run an ironclad in a pod as the only drop unit in my army. It still was worth it.

The problem with Space wolves is that only the AV:12 dreads can get drop pods. I've actually been thinking about this recently after a nasty encounter with a couple of furioso dreads that landed in front of my guard on turn 1.

If Bjorn could get a DP then I'd seriously consider taking him. AV:13, 5++ is pretty durable. Then take into account he has precision strikes in close combat, and can challenge (lol). You could really cause some damage in your opponent's army. His issue is (aside from giving up D3 VPs which is such a dumb rule) that he can't get anywhere due to lack of transport.

The AV:12 dreads are too weak to really work IMO. Yeah you can have 1 MM shot, but for 50pts less you can have 3 combi-melta WG shoot. They die almost immediately, but so will the AV:12 dread. Hell, an AV:12 dread landing on turn 1 is asking to give away first blood from interceptor fire too.

I think for my current intended use as fire/mid-field support, I would be looking at a regular dred, or Venerable as it would have the variety of longer range options (maybe missile launcher and PC or TL LC?) as opposed to Bjorn, plus for far fewer points.

If only SW had IC like everyone else!

The thing is, there are far better options for fire support. Long Fangs are fantastic. AV:12 is just not durable. Trust me, I've played mech guard since the start of 6th.

The only way to keep AV:12 alive is to bring so much of it that your opponent can't kill it all. You don't get that option with dreads. They're also not threatening enough to matter. Whenever I see one, I let it plink away with a single LC/AC while it moves 6" per turn. Then take it out when there are no better targets to shoot at, since it's so slow I can afford to ignore it...unless it's in a DP.

I reckon Bjorn would be viable alongside GH. The Close Support dread mentioned above would be his role so chose your weapon to cover the GH. If they need something to give flyer defense on the fly., TLLC. If they need extra help vs Teries, PC. If they wabt those Termgants or Land Raiders to vanish, AC.

That's a good point. Something like that may be more likely to make an impact.

While Bjorn gives away D3 VPs unless you remain in contact with him, I consider him useless. He is durable, but not that durable. From the perspective of facing Bjorn, if I can kill him in a location that's away from an objective, my opponent will have to stick a unit there.
Seems like he's giving your opponent more tactical advantages than yourself.

He does make for...interesting game dynamics. That extra challenge is part if what I like.

Would it be better to have the Dreds hoof it with the infantry, or put the infantry in a Rhino and use it for cover advancing the Dred along side?

I reckon Option 2- means the Anti Infantry has no target unles he uses AT to take the Rhino first, diverting AT Firepower from the Dreads.

 Deadshot wrote:
I reckon Option 2- means the Anti Infantry has no target unles he uses AT to take the Rhino first, diverting AT Firepower from the Dreads.

But you don't need to target the dread because it moves so slowly. Again, unless you put it in a drop pod.

When its lobbing Plasma/Lascanon/Assault Cannon/ Multimeltas up the battelfield, you do. Particularly if its Bjorn as killing him, as pointed out, is highly beneficial to his opponent.

1 gun isn't threatening enough, nor does it score. It's AV:12 so people know they can take it out whenever they please. The only time a dread is scary is when it's in assault range, or melta-range. Those scoring units in rhinos are more important to stop.

in my experiance AV12 is lot harder to take out that you'd thinkl. Its not invicable but its tougher than the rhino which can pop smoke. I'd rather take out the dread in that ssimulation. The dread followed by Rhino. The troopps are easier to kill.

In my experience and the general consensus is that AV:12 is weak. It can be glanced down by plasma rather efficiently and is dominated by anything with Str:9+ which isn't uncommon.

You seem to be ignoring that every competitive player has dropped non-AV:13, non-drop podding dreads (other than the rifleman) for a good reason. They're too slow, they're aren't threatening until they're in close range, they can't score and they're rather expensive for what they bring. In reality, the only weapon you can use is the Plasma or Lascannon before your opponent has time to deal with the Dread. Those 135pts could buy you transports, another scoring unit, or almost a fully kitted out Long Fang squad.

If you're happy walking 6" every turn, firing off one LC shot then I guess they're a good choice. However if you want to affect the game in any meaningful way, almost anything else in the SW codex is a better choice.

I find walking Dreads rather effective. No one sees them as a threat so they can go unmolested. the exception being Riflemen which get shot to bits due to reputation.

Relying on your opponent's mistakes seems like a poor way to win. That's not going to happen very often, and the people who it does happen against probably would have made errors in other places anyway.

rely on the dakka dreaddy: AC/TLAC. walk him up with marines and target light armor/groups. The TLAC for first turn or two, strip some HP off a transport. When under 24" swap to AsC and shred vehicles/light infantry with rending. Camp him on midfield objectives to support the tactical squad. Very odd combo but its worked more than once for me. Besides, anything firing at that thing isn't hitting the real threat (the tac squad on the objective). Also, it makes for a more interesting looking dread and its a rarely seen but effective combo.

I like dreads a lot.The loadout tends to be a rifleman or TL-LC and ML.

In a pod,i like to go HF and DCCW ( HF ) or MM and DCCW ( SB ).Depending on the job i want for them obviously.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Relying on your opponent's mistakes seems like a poor way to win. That's not going to happen very often, and the people who it does happen against probably would have made errors in other places anyway.

On the contrary, its not reliance but takling advantage. If he pops a rhino with his Lascannon he's not popping the much more dangerous walker. it can fight back and shoots with a significant more powerful gun. And costs more. So I'd rather have that alive. If he chosose to take out the Dread, its one less weapon popping my transports and it makes the difference. Not to mention a dread is tougher than rhinoes.

I'll pop the rhinos first, suck up the limited fire from the dreads, and melta it in the face if it gets too close. Why are we even discussing AV 12 dreads on foot?

 Deadshot wrote:

If he chosose to take out the Dread, its one less weapon popping my transports and it makes the difference.

You raise a false dichotomy. The choice isn't take the rhinos out or take the dread out. It's take the rhinos, then on turn 3 or 4 take the dread out at leisure.

I like to run Bjorn and 2x Dreads with my Space Wolves. I agree with OP, I've always liked them and they can be tons of fun.

I prefer to send the three dreadnoughts in with the transports, armed with flamers and plasma. They work great as mid-range fire support, and are fantastic at moving enemy units off of objectives. And anytime I can get Bjorn into CC, then things will get funny quickly.

So long as you can keep melta away from the dreads, the AV 12 is a lot harder to hurt than you'd think. And Bjorn is as durable as anything in the game thanks to his 5++, Venerable rule and AV 13.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
rely on the dakka dreaddy: AC/TLAC. walk him up with marines and target light armor/groups. The TLAC for first turn or two, strip some HP off a transport. When under 24" swap to AsC and shred vehicles/light infantry with rending. Camp him on midfield objectives to support the tactical squad. Very odd combo but its worked more than once for me. Besides, anything firing at that thing isn't hitting the real threat (the tac squad on the objective). Also, it makes for a more interesting looking dread and its a rarely seen but effective combo.

This is pretty close to the role I figure best suits Dreads as far as I can see. Able to advance and give support targeting a variety of targets. Also why I like the ML option.

My lord. MLs suck. Don't put them on anything if you can.