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Back in the summer of 2010, my friend took me to his local comic store, getting some tips from a local gamer. This is where my love for 40k, and tabletop in general, originated.

This was back when I could buy a SMTS for around $20-25. Now, thats almost double to close to $40. This is the main reason I'm basically quitting my tabletop gaming until the prices lower even a little.

But I'm worried about GW. Not just because some veteran players might be quitting, but that they're repelling new customers.

Another factor is their new trade agreement which cause multiple comic stores, including the well-known MWG store, to discontinue selling GW's products. I feel that soon, GW will sell out, unable to provide the few remaining players with miniatures that we have all loved. I hope that this will not be the case and that soon, GW lowers their prices.

If GW doesnt start to lower their prices. Something like this will happen and they will be forced to. SImple as that.

Or, like the guys on 40k radio said, they have no foresight and believe that no matter how much they raise prices, people will buy their products.

I only buy from miniature market, save for the things I have to buy direct from GW. It helps immensely for the price issue. I have only needed to purchase a few things directly so its almost a flat 25% off everything including the new hardback codices.

If I was no longer able to order from them I would probably stop purchasing models too, though I would continue to play (unless I could still get discounted models on EBay). I am honestly upset that this is all occurring right after I started getting into tabletop. Not happy at all. Lets hope they don't continue much further down the path they are going.

no worries, i remember getting my wood elf battalion for less than 100 bucks at one point and the bloodknights for counts are just too damn expensive to do anything with, if a set of 5 horses costs more than a box of 30+ models there is a problem.

You don't need to give up tabletop wargaming just because you're sick of GW's prices... We're living in a golden time, with more choice out there for gamers than we've ever had before when it comes to finding something to play.

And most companies out there aren't as determined to drive away their veteran players as GW seems to be.

I'm quitting tabletop because I can't afford it.

It is expensive but my local GW has a manager that actually will play with me. Fantasy is dead at the moment at my local GW but he will actually take the time to play with me, you usually will not get that in the other indepenent stores around me, the owners generally aren't into the game and don't want to pay employees to play. I can justify paying a little extra for that, having said that everyone I try to introduce to this game is offput by the cost, and GW just keeps raising the prices.

 ironhand45 wrote:
I'm quitting tabletop because I can't afford it.

Couldn't you keep playing with the models you have, or do you need to sell them?

I have on termie squad, a pred, a razorback, and a landspeeder. Couldn't really play with that.

Have you ever been on ebay? You can get 5 man termie squad with a decent loadout (dark vengeance set) for ~16 dollars with shipping and handling. If you are concerned about the prices look at ebay, you can buy space marines for absolutely ridiculous prices.

GW pricing policy seems nuts but their stock ticker indicates a decent upward trend since 2008 (after the market collapse) so the strategy seems to be paying off. I must say I am happy with the improvements in quality with the new dark eldar, dark angels, and Tau models the new chaos models don't seem like a huge improvement but the old chaos models were halfway decent. Look at the old DE and now look at the new ones and tell me you would not pay more for the new ones than the old ones.

 ironhand45 wrote:
I have on termie squad, a pred, a razorback, and a landspeeder. Couldn't really play with that.

Oh I see, in that case I second the above post as well as miniature market. The worst thing that could happen is you still decide it is too expensive and move on. Ebay takes some patience as you need to monitor auctions for deal. I got my wife several squads of sisters for 80% off on Ebay at the beginning of the month. I also got a 1650pt Space Wolf army on mini market for about 250ish.

Best of luck to you. If you enjoy it I hope you can find a way to continue.

Edit: BTW if you want me to give some example prices from mini market I would be happy to check real quick for you (you need to get a order form from them through e-mail so its not a quick look up). I have a recent form on hand.

I worry about the same thing from time to time. If GW did go under, I doubt I would continue TT gaming. It's just the discouragement of seeing all the time, effort, and money into the game go to waste.

I don't know if I could afford (money or time wise) to start from scratch with a new TT game. One of the reasons I hitched myself to the GW horse was because when I started playing it had the largest community. Community is one of the most important things (at least for me) when it comes to a TT game. You could have the most beautiful models, at dirt cheap, with the tightest and most fun rules, and it wouldn't matter if I couldn't find regular games in my local area. In my area, the only other TT game even remotely mentioned is War machine/Hordes, and it's just a handful of warhammer players doing something else when they get bored of WH. I've tried it, and although the game is good, its a little smaller scaled to me, and I prefer the feel of 40k.

If GW did sink, sure there would be community support for a while. People still playing games. But as models become rarer, and things go on without updates, it would only be a matter of time until 40k faded away to become a reminiscent memory.

What I think is more likely (and preferable) is for GW to be knocked down a few pegs. If their stocks started to drop, and they down sized a bit, they would be hopefully forced to see what was tanking them. With other TT companies getting a bigger slice of the market pie, it should only be a matter of time until GW realizes it has to be competitive to survive.

I'm not going to claim to be a marketing guru, but this is how I see it. If I was the first person to manufacture and market a fully functional and mass produced car, for example, I would end up sitting pretty high on my horse. Even as other people started to trickle into car production, I wouldn't worry, because many people see me as the known and trusted name of car production. I could charge whatever I want, and people would pay it because I've been doing it reliably for a long time. Because lots of people buy my cars, other people will, because they want to be like the many (kinda like apple and their prices), and go with what other people know and trust. I can maintain my pricing however I want until the other manufacturers manage to build enough of a name for themselves that people will buy their equivalent product over mine because they are cheaper and my established name isn't as big a deal in the market anymore. Once the advantage of being the first big name in this not so new market starts to fade, I can no longer ride the "do what I want" wave. Now I must be competitive to survive. I think this is where GW is quickly approaching. They are faced with adapt or die. If they don't change their strategy, they will sink (worst case), but if they are forced to act, price, and practice business in a competitive way, the consumer wins. This is a core principle of capitalism.

If they continue down a spiraling path to oblivion, and go under, and no one took over their IP to continue the 40k franchise, I would, unfortunately, most likely be forced to retire from TT gaming.
I would one day be telling my grand children about the days I commanded armies of genetically enhanced super humans, clad in nigh impregnable armor, into battle against the most grotesque and wide range of foes humanity had ever seen. I once shed blood in the name of the galaxy spanning Imperium of man, fighting everything for demons, to robotic zombies, to all consuming gigantic insects. Alas, I was robbed of my ability to lead my men, and never got to see the fight through, my mission would forever go uncompleted. I would stare off into the distance recalling hard fought victories, and nail biting bitter defeats. As my grand children would begin to leave, unnoticed by my lost in thought self, they would hear a faint muttering of "damn necrons" as they closed the door to my padded cell.

OT post removed by insaniak.

 ironhand45 wrote:
This was back when I could buy a SMTS for around $20-25. Now, thats almost double to close to $40.

No it's not. Prices haven't gone up in 10 years. (/Kingsley)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ironhand45 wrote:
This was back when I could buy a SMTS for around $20-25. Now, thats almost double to close to $40.

No it's not. Prices haven't gone up in 10 years. (/Kingsley)

Minimum. Wage.

The same kind of talk is going through our club lately.
I guess Warhammer 40K will become one of the many OOP games we play there, and means we lost another game that attracts new members into the hobby.

 ironhand45 wrote:
I'm quitting tabletop because I can't afford it.

The point insaniak wanted to make is, that there are other tabletop games like Infinity, Malifaux, Dystopian Wars or even Bloodbowl, where a full army costs only 50-100$.

ironhand45 wrote:Back in the summer of 2010, my friend took me to his local comic store, getting some tips from a local gamer. This is where my love for 40k, and tabletop in general, originated.
This was back when I could buy a SMTS for around $20-25. Now, thats almost double to close to $40. This is the main reason I'm basically quitting my tabletop gaming until the prices lower even a little.
But I'm worried about GW. Not just because some veteran players might be quitting, but that they're repelling new customers.
Another factor is their new trade agreement which cause multiple comic stores, including the well-known MWG store, to discontinue selling GW's products. I feel that soon, GW will sell out, unable to provide the few remaining players with miniatures that we have all loved. I hope that this will not be the case and that soon, GW lowers their prices.

ironhand45 wrote:Or, like the guys on 40k radio said, they have no foresight and believe that no matter how much they raise prices, people will buy their products.

for what its worth, people have always been saying that. i got into this game when i was 18 - 10 years ago. people said the same stuff about third ed with regard to second ed, fourth with regard to third, price rises, power creep, lousy balance, LOTR taking from the flagship games etc etc.

thing is, youre still hearing those exact same complaints ten years on (except for the lotr thing!) this is how GW operates.

its a shame you want to get out. it really is. because there are other options:
if its 40k you're after, buy second hand. ebay. lots of folks are selling lots of stuff lately. a mate sold a whole army of dark angels recently for about £100. moneywise, its not huge. but thats him getting money for stuff he's not using and some other guy getting a fully kitted army for a very reasonable buy-in.
Second option is other games. here is the big un. When i started ten years ago, and we had all these complaints about price rises, balance issues etc; you had no options. the only real alternative to 40k was Fantasy. Nowadays there's so much more. Warmachine/Hordes. Infinity. Dystopian Wars. Flames of War, X-wing, dust: warfare, Malifaux. Dropzone commander etc etc. Any number of games to cater to any number of tastes.

you say no one plays these games. youre probably wrong. and here's why. you play GW games. Im guessing your circle of friends are primarily GW gamers? if that is the case, then isnt it conceivable that most of what they do will be based around those games? There are folks out there who dont play GW games; and folks who dont play/buy at GW stores. THere are a lot of people out there who got into gaming through games other than 40k (for some reason here, its Flames of War). Chances are, if all your circle is exposed to has no/little crossover with what these guys do, you're not gonna know about it. there might be a large active community next door that you might literally know nothing about (and yes, i know how easily that can happen!). Folks have private groups, folks play at mates houses etc - there is a hidden world.

So think about it. Why not actively search it out? A lot of those games have a very cheap buy-in. I know Infinity can be started with less than £30 and youre ready to go. Not only that but its exploding in popularity. I ran demos in my LGS/gaming group for a while, and got about half a dozen guys interested. along with that, there were another half a dozen, or a dozen buying in of their own accord. and i've somehow managed to link them all together. add to that a third local group of guys ive found about playing infinity - i have a whole active community to play with, from nothing. and if i went to a GW store to game, i wouldnt know anything about it.

And believe me, this is just my local meta. it wouldnt surprise me at all if there is something like that where you live. different folks playing different games. theres probably guys doing warmachine/hordes (dont mock the scale though), infinity, malifaux, dystopian wars, and probably a few doing flames of war (company scale ww2 game). So think about it. What about going onto the forums of these games and putting out a holler? Whats to lose?

GW prices have been going up at rates above inflation for years, and it can be discouraging for new people to see the quite large outlay required for getting into the hobby, after all you need the rulebook/starter set, army book and a workable army. Those can fairly easily set you back several hundred pounds retail. but the thing is, once you have bought them, new editions aside of course, you have those miniatures for all time.
I've been wargaming for almost 20 years, and my Space marine army has Sergeants and captains from the RT era, and 2nd ed, still doing sterling service my early 1990's terminators stand alongside my late 1990's terminators. My old metal Necron lords now see service as Crypteks.
Its the same with any TT games system, once you have the models, you have them forever, you will never have to buy them again (accidents and children and other disasters notwithstanding)

If you compare the price needed to get into TT wargaming with, lets say, Console Gaming, they come out fairly even. An X-box 360 package you can get from around £130 and up, better deals with some games cost you around £200, then you need a TV, but since everyone generally has one anyway that can be discounted, an extra controller if you want to play MP games, and with games around the £40 mark upon release, if you are seriously looking at it, you need to spend £300-£350 easily. and That same amount of money will get you a very very reasonably startup in 40k. And i happen to also think that on the whole GW sell some of the best Wargames figures on the market right now.

Now i'm not saying GW prices arent high, because they are. I would love it if they were lower and so would a lot of people. but compared to other luxury goods, (lets face it thats what they are) they are priced in the same range, although more expensive then competing games.

madtankbloke wrote:
luxury goods

This is what they are. If you can't afford them, don't play. There's no right to own luxury goods. Just like I don't own a car and I don't live in a large house. I don't go posting on car forums about how it's terrible that the price of insurance and petrol have caused me to sell my car.
It's a shame that it can put new players off, but I only really seeing that being an issue in younger players who don't have their own source of income, and therefore have the decision on cost:benefit made for them.

GW can go to hell for all i care, it's the IP i like and not the company.

 ironhand45 wrote:
I have on termie squad, a pred, a razorback, and a landspeeder. Couldn't really play with that.

According to your sig, You have PLENTY to play with:

 ironhand45 wrote:
7th Clan: 2000 points
7th Magdellan Mechanized Infantry: 1500 points
2nd Company: 1750
Sac'ea Hunter Cadre: 2000 points
101st Elysian Drop Troops:1000
The Resistance: 500pt

I haven't bought anything from gw in 6 months, and haven't made a purchase for my orks in three months. I have a sizeable army with options and just focus on play.

I got into the hobby when I was 14, I'd save every bit of money I had and then go to my FLGS and buy a few boxes of models I could afford to do this every 3 weeks or so and amassed nearly 5000pts of marines by the end of the summer... fast forward nine years and I takes me nearly a year to buy a decent sized army, and that isn't even inluding paints and rulebooks... Now I'm a broke grad student but still, it shouldn't cost me a quarter of my paycheck to buy a rulebook and one box of guys......

To be fair, you're only buying that rulebook or codex roughly every 4 years. It's not like you buy a rulebook with every box of models.

I think that your opinion is quite wrong.
For every costumer the GW loses, two more take his place.
Yeah, the high prices thing could discourage a new costumer, but after a bit he'll eventually buy something.

The high price thing combines with the "but that place down the street has more guys in, and their stuff is cheaper. I should go back there" to form the first time the overprice issue has actually been a problem.

 ironhand45 wrote:
Or, like the guys on 40k radio said, they have no foresight and believe that no matter how much they raise prices, people will buy their products.

The managers at Games Workshop probably have a better idea of sales numbers than the community do. If people will pay a price, they will charge it.

GW raises prices 10-20%, in a few cases 100% per year, and still total revenue is flat.
So people don't buy everything for every price. Currently loss of customers and price hikes are in equilibrium, for now.
(Total revenue in 100 GBP, adjusted for inflation)

Kroothawk, where did that last chart come from? I'd be intrigued to know what countries it includes, and how (if at all) Forgeworld, Black Library and the technical difference between Citadel/GW are represented. I'd also want to know whether each year is Jan-Dec or the tax year, which for UK would be Apr-Mar.
Some details I feel need adding for that chart to make more sense:

Major 40k releases (this being GW's supposed biggest source of income, I don't know how true that is):
3rd ed - 1998
4th ed - 2004
5th ed - 2008

Major WHFB releases:
4th ed - 1992
5th ed - 1996
6th ed - 2000
7th ed - 2006

That spike between 2003-2005 was therefore unlikely caused by one of the major factors we'd expect. It's possible the boost came from LOTR, the GW products for which were first released in late 2001 but then with the added support and marketing of the following movies, the last and most successful and profitable of which was released Xmas 2003.