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Expensive, but gives you 6 S7 skyfire shots on an exceptionally mobile platform.

Thoughts?

Why do you think War Walkers are exceptionally mobile? They have 6" move and D6" re-rollable run. That's not very mobile, and even more so given that you will usually use that run to retreat back into the cover you came from.

As great as Walkers are, they are such an exceptional choice because they are cheap and good against everything. Making them Flakk holders takes that away from them, and when they die you are losing a lot more. 195pts of Scatter Walkers isn't such a big deal to lose given how much damage they will do but 245pts of Flakk Walkers is considering how much damage they won't do.

I would suggest wave serpents with scatter laser and shoot the serpent shield, or dark reapers as they ignore the jink save if given the range finder which I think it stock on the exarch?

it's stock on all of them.

But can something with flakk missiles not switch between missile types?

I mean dark reapers can switch between Starswarm and the other one, right?

Yeah, you should be able to switch. It's just that flakk missiles kinda stink against the most dangerous fliers.

true, but the other option is to take an ADL, which affixes a portion of your army, or take a crimson hunter, which is not worth it's points imo

A scatter laser/eml combo worked alright for me against Necrons the other day. Despite needing 6s for the SL I usually got at least one. All but gaurantees thr flakk missile hit. This is ok against av11 fliers but anything tougher then that and you might need help from a serpemt shieldnor reaper exarch.

I enjoyed the sl/eml combo once the fliers were gone too. Scatter lasers are always good and rerolling the scatter on the plasma missile was nice.

Not a bad alternative.

One of the things I enjoy doing with walkers is adding star engines on them. Definitely way too expensive to be viable in any sense of the word, but there's this wonderful feeling moving them an average of 12 inches per turn.

They're just so expensive. You're paying 110 points for each Walker, or 90 for SL/EML. With 2x EML a Walker averages 1.33 S7 hits on flyers, or 1.78 if Guided. With SL/EML a Walker averages .67 S6 and .78 S7 hits on flyers (1.22 and .89 if Guided).

A typical Serpent averages 2.04 S6 and 1.23 S7 hits on flyers. And is much, much better against ground targets, and is harder for the flyers to take down on the turn they come on unless you have really favorable terrain.

We can also compare to options in other codices, which Eldar can ally with. For 85 points a Tau Broadside delivers an average of 3 S7 hits to flyers. Even if it has to move to shoot, it still averages .92 S7 hits. 210 points buys a Riptide that has Interceptor in addition to Skyfire, is much harder to kill than two War Walkers, is faster, has longer range, and averages 1.5 S7 AP2 hit from anywhere on the board and potentially more if the flyer is closer - with a good nova roll it expects another 1.5 S8 AP1 hits when it starts the turn within 24" of the flyer.

I dunno, I seem to have this phobia of allies. I keep toying with the idea of allying with Tau (only ones I could really consider allying with fluff wise, unless MAYBE Salamander Space marines or something) but eventually I think I'll have to pick something to ally with if only for tournament lists.

I like being a purist though!

pantsonhead wrote:
They're just so expensive. You're paying 110 points for each Walker, or 90 for SL/EML. With 2x EML a Walker averages 1.33 S7 hits on flyers, or 1.78 if Guided. With SL/EML a Walker averages .67 S6 and .78 S7 hits on flyers (1.22 and .89 if Guided).

A typical Serpent averages 2.04 S6 and 1.23 S7 hits on flyers. And is much, much better against ground targets, and is harder for the flyers to take down on the turn they come on unless you have really favorable terrain.

We can also compare to options in other codices, which Eldar can ally with. For 85 points a Tau Broadside delivers an average of 3 S7 hits to flyers. Even if it has to move to shoot, it still averages .92 S7 hits. 210 points buys a Riptide that has Interceptor in addition to Skyfire, is much harder to kill than two War Walkers, is faster, has longer range, and averages 1.5 S7 AP2 hit from anywhere on the board and potentially more if the flyer is closer - with a good nova roll it expects another 1.5 S8 AP1 hits when it starts the turn within 24" of the flyer.

How does a walker with EML's with Flakk missiles average 1.33 hits?

deathmagiks wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
They're just so expensive. You're paying 110 points for each Walker, or 90 for SL/EML. With 2x EML a Walker averages 1.33 S7 hits on flyers, or 1.78 if Guided. With SL/EML a Walker averages .67 S6 and .78 S7 hits on flyers (1.22 and .89 if Guided).

A typical Serpent averages 2.04 S6 and 1.23 S7 hits on flyers. And is much, much better against ground targets, and is harder for the flyers to take down on the turn they come on unless you have really favorable terrain.

We can also compare to options in other codices, which Eldar can ally with. For 85 points a Tau Broadside delivers an average of 3 S7 hits to flyers. Even if it has to move to shoot, it still averages .92 S7 hits. 210 points buys a Riptide that has Interceptor in addition to Skyfire, is much harder to kill than two War Walkers, is faster, has longer range, and averages 1.5 S7 AP2 hit from anywhere on the board and potentially more if the flyer is closer - with a good nova roll it expects another 1.5 S8 AP1 hits when it starts the turn within 24" of the flyer.

How does a walker with EML's with Flakk missiles average 1.33 hits?

2 x .67 = 1.33


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I personally think guiding some bright lances would be cheaper and similarly effective.

but you're measuring it from a single warwalker. Consider they'd be running in packs of 2, possibly 3. That gives you 4-6 str7 shots at full BS 4 to fliers, Str8 AP3 shots or Str 4 AP4 blasts against ground targets. Yes, expensive, but definitely flexible

I appreciate flexibility of units...I really do.

I personally think that flexibility means inefficient at everything...when you have such low survivability.

A Wraithlord is very flexible in what he can do...but at least he'll live long enough to possibly fill those different roles.

The question is are they worth trying out? I run an Ulthwe army and I'm trying to find answers to problems that don't involve aspect warriors. Specifically, not taking dark reapers on an ADL all the time to handle fliers, and not taking more than 1 group of spiders.

I can see them being useful in smaller point games, where a) it's easier to keep them safe, b) flyers left unchecked can gut your force that much more easily and c) you don't have an awful lot of points to cover every eventuality, so having a unit with 3 different types of missile available covers a lot.

However, once you have enough points to start taking "toys" (anything over 1,000 really) the Crimson Hunter is *SO* much better at anti-air, the Walker isn't even worth considering.

The only isuue there is that its an aspect too

deathmagiks wrote:
but you're measuring it from a single warwalker. Consider they'd be running in packs of 2, possibly 3. That gives you 4-6 str7 shots at full BS 4 to fliers, Str8 AP3 shots or Str 4 AP4 blasts against ground targets. Yes, expensive, but definitely flexible

The problem is that flexibility isn't worth the cost when you consider their lack of any resemblance of resilience.

You want flexible resilient firepower that doesnt use aspect warriors and kills fliers.

Wave Serpent = Done

Oh I agree, but was hoping for something with some skyfire lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and it's not that I'm opposed to aspect warriors, it's just Ulthwe is psyker heavy, guardian heavy, low on aspects. I can use a group, but my guidelines are no more than 1 group of each respective aspects, and no more than 5-6 with the exception of warp spiders.

Think of it this way, for every 500 points, I'm allowed 1 squad of aspect warriors.

But why do you need Skyfire? Against AV10/11 Serpents and general high rate of fire from the army will do the job. For AV12 those Walkers still won't be much better than Serpents. For 245pts those Walkers will do 4 S7 hits. For 250pts two Serpents with Scatter Lasers will do 2.4 S6 hits and 2.4 S7 hits that ignore cover. Effectively those Serpents aren't much worse against the AV12 flyer, but against everything else they are much better, are way more resilient, and for another 15pts each can be even more resilient.

Well I only have 3 serpents, and I've not found them reliable when it comes to taking down flyers, especially Helldrakes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scratch that, guess I have 4 Serpents

AV12 fliers are an issue for them...Crimson Hunter is your answer.

Sure...its an aspect...but really only because they wanted to give it exarch powers.

Which is very odd imo.

I was definitely planning on buying 1 to run as a wraithfighter, but guess I'll have to magnetize it

Helldrakes can not reliably be destroyed by S6 or S7 AP high. Anyone who has fired quad guns at them knows this. Crimson hunters should make short work of them, however.

Serpents should be sufficient against small numbers of Vendettas and Stormravens, but maybe not against air cav builds. In that case, abuse the serpent shields and eliminate their scoring elements.

Or guided brightlance walkers works too...need the guiding just for killing fliers.

3 walkers come in at 210?

When guided they hit a flier twice...and then S8 AP2 to damage...but the hunter rerolls damage against drakes...

Not calculating the farseer cost in because he does lots of other things for armies as well.

Also, I think the hunter has a decent chance of getting behind the drake, which is basically curtains for the thing.

The thing about a Hunter is that it takes a high degree of intelligence to use when facing tau. Thus far I have been able to keep mine alive into turn 4 once and consider that a good buy. There's a whole new level of manuevering techniques involved in this model alone.

 ductvader wrote:
The only isuue there is that its an aspect too

And? Ulthwe doesn't have much in the way of Aspect squads,and the last time there were rules for an Ulthwe specific army, the only restriction was that you could not have more Aspect squads then Guardian squads.

As such my Ulthwe force consists of:
2 Farseers
9 Warlocks
3 squads of Guardians with Wave Serpents
1 Crimson Hunter
1 squad of Dark Reapers

 ductvader wrote:
The only isuue there is that its an aspect too

QUESTION

 Happyjew wrote:
And?

ANSWER

deathmagiks wrote:
I run an Ulthwe army and I'm trying to find answers to problems that don't involve aspect warriors..