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So what is everyone opinion on what is the best war machine in the game? I personally feel as if the chaos dwarf magma cannon is the best in the game. It has the ability to put a damper on any army and is extremely cheap (pts) considering what it can do. What does everyone else think?

Bret trebuchet. S10 under the hole and quite cheap for what it does. Pity mine never hits....

-chariots that can move and shoot and have massive combat abilities so you can't just throw one little unit at them to kill them:
*Ironblaster
*Hellcannon

-A million shots and an engineer can buff it
*Hellblaster

-Engineers can buff, can get runes
*all dwarf war machines

-Huge range, lots of dmg
*CD mortar
-Great against multi wounds
*CD flame cannon

My vote goes to the Ironcannon or the Hellblaster. The ability to be able to move a warmachine and still shoot with it is huge. It also helps that these two units are undercosted for said ability.

Dwarf Cannon.
It's 90 points for a cannon.
You can take up to 3 of them.
You can take a 4th crewmen to give it a 4th wound.
Crew are WS4 T4 making many cheap fast option bounce (looking at you great eagle/dire wolves).

If I was playing a mission where the rules said, Buy any warmachines from any army, and they still count against the appropriate slot, I'd take dwarf cannons.

I'd rather have a trio of cannons over a pair of hellcannons.
I'd rather have a trio of cannons over a pair of ironblasters.

When you start buying stuff for the cannon to make it as good as an ironblaster, it's still not as good as an ironblaster. It's just cheaper and a Special. Which, you know, is still good.

Hellcannon ironblaster as stated above

I personally am a big fan of the Hellcannon myself, playing Chaos Dwarfs, but I still think the magma cannon is the best! St 5 flaming multiple wound d3 with a flame template extending a max range of 34in at 145pts. It's good against light infantry, heavy infantry, cavalry, strafe, monstrous infantry and cavalry, hordes and buses.

Casket of Souls. d3 Power dice every phase, t10 3 healable wounds, 6 attacks in CC. Bound Spell Light of death. Super cheap. Adds excellent target saturation.

I forgot casket was a wm. But I don't think it's up there. Giving PD is what it is really good at.

 Acardia wrote:
Casket of Souls. d3 Power dice every phase, t10 3 healable wounds, 6 attacks in CC. Bound Spell Light of death. Super cheap. Adds excellent target saturation.

I'd like to change my vote.
The casket is the best, by far.

-Matt

More than "best warmachine", the subject should be:
"best cannon"
+
"best stone thrower"
+
"best other warmachine"
and so on

DoC skill canon and OK Iron blaster both are filthy horrible things with models so bad that my eyes bleed when I have to look upon them (and thanks to there points to feth you ratio I see them alot)

I'd vote Magma Cannon.

Not too expensive and a threat to nearly anything in the game.

 Red Viper wrote:


Not too expensive and a threat to nearly anything in the game.

My exact sentiments

I'm sorry, how has the Warp Lightning Cannon not even got an honorable mention yet? There is NOTHING in the game with so much potential for so little. I get a cannon-ball shot that will pierce ANY rank, no matter what you are, and will explode in a small template, with a better than average chance I'll be wounding everything on 2's, denying your armour saves and causing D6 wounds.

Ok, ok, so maybe I just blow myself up instead...granted...but for 90 freaking points, that's a risk-reward ration I'd happily take


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, I find myself taking it twice. Dual WLC until the day I die!

 Aipoch wrote:
I'm sorry, how has the Warp Lightning Cannon not even got an honorable mention yet? There is NOTHING in the game with so much potential for so little. I get a cannon-ball shot that will pierce ANY rank, no matter what you are, and will explode in a small template, with a better than average chance I'll be wounding everything on 2's, denying your armour saves and causing D6 wounds.

Ok, ok, so maybe I just blow myself up instead...granted...but for 90 freaking points, that's a risk-reward ration I'd happily take


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, I find myself taking it twice. Dual WLC until the day I die!

I thought warp lightning, but half of the shots that don't misfire are Strength 0, Strength 2, or Strength 4. Sure, you can get the S6, S8 and S10 some of the time, but the WLC is fairly average to poor against too many opponents.
I would have liked it more as more expensive, but a special choice. You really need redundancy, and a 3rd cannon would have gone a long way.

-Matt

 Jubear wrote:
DoC skill canon and OK Iron blaster both are filthy horrible things with models so bad that my eyes bleed when I have to look upon them (and thanks to there points to feth you ratio I see them alot)

Except that "skillcannon" is highly prone to exploding to Instability... or getting insta-gibbed by 'The Dark Prince Thirsts' result from the random lolz table... or simply misfiring and doing nothing.

The Ogre one is far worse. I'd instantly trade Flaming + Magical Attacks for S10 grapeshot and no DI!

Casket of Souls.

Especially after reading a breakdown on Khemri about why it is more reliable than a cannon.

Anvil of Doom

hands down

Casket of Souls, definitely. It generates PD, can be cast on two dice, is immune to miscasts, and even if your opponent dispels it they have to ignore your other important spells to do it.

Oh, and not only does it do 3d6-LD wounds, but it ALSO jumps to another unit on a 3+. Combine that with D&D on the general and it absolutely scythes through low LD armies.

We played a big 3v3 game with 1,500 points each, and my casket killed an empire cannon, a bunch of archers, 3 knights, a level 4 wizard, and a HE lion chariot in ONE TURN.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Jubear wrote:
DoC skill canon and OK Iron blaster both are filthy horrible things with models so bad that my eyes bleed when I have to look upon them (and thanks to there points to feth you ratio I see them alot)

Except that "skillcannon" is highly prone to exploding to Instability... or getting insta-gibbed by 'The Dark Prince Thirsts' result from the random lolz table... or simply misfiring and doing nothing.

The Ogre one is far worse. I'd instantly trade Flaming + Magical Attacks for S10 grapeshot and no DI!

Dude just stop playing DoC already....We get it you dont like the book move on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pities2004 wrote:
Anvil of Doom

hands down

Damn how did I forget that =) Last magical charge left in the game is it not?

 Jubear wrote:

Damn how did I forget that =) Last magical charge left in the game is it not?

No love for the wood elves?
Call of the Hunt 11+
18" range. If unit is in combat, it gains +1 attack. If not in combat, it moves 2D6" directly at the closest enemy unit, counting as charging if it reaches them. The enemy gets no charge reaction.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Jubear wrote:

Damn how did I forget that =) Last magical charge left in the game is it not?

No love for the wood elves?
Call of the Hunt 11+
18" range. If unit is in combat, it gains +1 attack. If not in combat, it moves 2D6" directly at the closest enemy unit, counting as charging if it reaches them. The enemy gets no charge reaction.

Shows how much I have used the WE book lore. Now if only woodelves had a ranked and effective unit to use it with.

The only Weak point of the Casket is vs Lizzies. There are some excellent targets, stegs, cold one cav, and ripperdactyls, but on the whole, whith a few big blocks of sarus and some skirmishers, pretty typical in what I run against, it doesn't do a lot.

Love my Hellcannons, but they aren't wa machines. Haven't played with or against casket, so I'm going for dwarf cannon. The vlooming rerolls on misfire / artillery dice win it for me.

I meant skullcannons. I don't like hellcannons too much. Cuz they're all monstery and go nuts. Ironblaster and skullcannon can defend themselves, move and shoot, ironblaster can reroll and skullcannon is magic and flaming.

DukeRustfield wrote:
I meant skullcannons. I don't like hellcannons too much. Cuz they're all monstery and go nuts. Ironblaster and skullcannon can defend themselves, move and shoot, ironblaster can reroll and skullcannon is magic and flaming.

I'd still rate the Ironblaster as just slightly better than the Khannon...

S10 Grapeshot is just plain obnoxious for no real reason, while the lack of Flaming Attacks means it doesn't have to worry about things like Dragon Princes/Armoured characters or anyone rocking one of the 2++ vs fire magic items.

Both fight reasonably well, and while the healing effect of the Khannon is pretty sweet, the fact it has Daemonic Instability is a big disadvantage. Ironblaster's Ld isn't anything to write home about either, but at least it WILL gain the benefits of General's Ld and/or BSB if it's in range, whereas the Khannon will almost certainly never get that.
I've simple seen it happen too many times where enemy cavalry or a higher movement infantry/monstrous unit gets a chance to charge an offending Khannon and either cripple it or outright pop it through DI... (even just having +1 for charge, +1 for banner, +1 for a rank is enough to worry the Khannon)

Overall, Ironblaster is only really suffering against Regen targets & any ability that can hurt Ld/force auto-panic check, while the Khannon is a bit squishier overall (lack of General/BSB buffs & DI) and it's shooting gets laughed at vs anything toting a 2++ vs burny attacks.

Grapeshot is really only good on paper. It's 12" range, you have to roll to hit, they are BS3. So a lot of the time you're going to be at long range and simply not hit anything. It doubles its chance of misfire (without the reroll). So even facing 5 dudes coming at you lined up so you can only cannon one at the most, I'd be hard pressed to suggest using grapeshot over the instant kill of one. If they are awesome enough you really want to kill multiple, they will likely be able to deal with your failshots coming. The only thing I think is decent with grapeshot in the whole game is a Soul Grinder. Because he gets it for free, he's a giant melee unit that can move and shoot, and so he might as well shoot it.

Don't forget that you also pick up movement penalties for grapeshot too.
So it's 0 to 10 shots, BS 3, with a -1, or -2 usually to hit.

I've never seen a situation where grape shot was better than firing the cannon ball.

-Matt