Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it just me or are gw trying to screw Orks over? 6th edition absouloutely ruined them and every new codex that comes out is just putting the Ork codex further down the pecking list. I mean why are tryanids rumoured to get a release earlier than Orks even though our codex is ancient compared to pretty much everybody out there(no offence to tryanids)? U see way more tryanid tournament lists out there than orks. They are meant to be savage and good in cc but all of the decent lists now adays just revolve around shooty lists! I can't even play them the way I like :(

Rage over.

Am I just being over the top?

Discuss.

I doubt it's intentional.

I mean, I could say that GW hate CSM players because they used the codex as the "experimental" codex of 6th edition.

Or I could say that they had shown favour over the CSM players by allowing them to have the first 6th edition codex, giving us an edge over other players for that time period.

We also got a new codex before the Tau, Eldar or Dark Angels. We also never had to endure huge gaps in new codex releases like the Grey Knights, Necrons or Dark Eldar, and never had to deal with a White Dwarf codex.

My point to you, is that your viewpoint will really depend on your own level of pessimism or optimism. You could say that the new random assault rules screwed over close combat armies, but then you'd be ignoring special rules like the Icon of Wrath that allow you to re-roll the charge distance, which will allow you to, on average, get more than 6 inches into your charge.

Orks can also take full advantage of the overwatch rule. Normally, shooting on a six is a huge disadvantage to any unit that's good at shooting. For marines, you'll miss almost all of your shots. There's just too few of them to make a difference. But for Orks, you're only halving your chance of hitting. Combine that with huge numbers and you have great potential for overwatch.

The main point of this post was to point out that GW never target any army in particular and say "That one. Let's make that one crap.". They would gain nothing from it whatsoever. Enjoy your army instead of lamenting what you don't have. Remember that painting and modelling and two-thirds of the hobby as well, and that an old codex shouldn't stop you from enjoying an army that you love.

Do remember that you're playing the oldest codex going at the moment, which was designed with 4th edition in mind, not 6th.

GW aren't "screwing" the Orks over anymore than they were "screwing" Eldar or Tau over before they got a codex update, the codex is just showing its age and will get updated eventually.

Iranna.

There's an argument to be made for a few of the codex's to all claim GW doesn't like them.

SoB - have a white dwarf codex
Tyranids - Got hit hard by assault nerfs
Orks - got hit hard by assault nerfs
Eldar/D Eldar - new stalker tank with 8 shots? cancels all eldar planes and skimmers (skyfire hits skimmers too)
Dark Angels - inb4 Space marines so therefore miss out on all the new toys and have bad fliers

They don't hate any 1 army, you just have to roll with the nerfs

 PredaKhaine wrote:
There's an argument to be made for a few of the codex's to all claim GW doesn't like them.

SoB - have a white dwarf codex
Tyranids - Got hit hard by assault nerfs
Orks - got hit hard by assault nerfs
Eldar/D Eldar - new stalker tank with 8 shots? cancels all eldar planes and skimmers (skyfire hits skimmers too)
Dark Angels - inb4 Space marines so therefore miss out on all the new toys and have bad fliers

They don't hate any 1 army, you just have to roll with the nerfs

And rather grudgingly except that some armies will always seem to get the epic shaft from GW...

For example, DA's have had it stuck to them by being before Codex Marines twice now, while their 3rd ed add-on book was so hilariously over-costed that GW had to put an errata in WD and then run a 2nd printing of their mini-dex!
Sisters have been largely ignored since 2nd edition with only a single 'new' model release wave in what, 16 or 17 years now?!

Orks, Eldar/D.Eldar simply tend to be in the camp that gets to wait about 10 year or so between updates. But they do at least typically get really good books when they do get that shiny new book! (remember back in 3rd when they were released, how Orks made all 2+ saves pretty much useless with their Choppas?! )

Tyranids typically have pretty good books, but their 5th ed one was a big fat epic-fail due to it's horrible internal balancing AND being an assault-based army with little anti-tank in the edition of Transporthammer.

I play orks and i wonder how people can rage at how bad they are... they are the most fun army iv'e ever played... even for sixth eddition.
Battlewagon rush... greentide, da speed freakz tons of variatons of how one can play orks.
I have more wins than losses aswell.. that counts towards the new tau too

Experiment 626 wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
There's an argument to be made for a few of the codex's to all claim GW doesn't like them.

SoB - have a white dwarf codex
Tyranids - Got hit hard by assault nerfs
Orks - got hit hard by assault nerfs
Eldar/D Eldar - new stalker tank with 8 shots? cancels all eldar planes and skimmers (skyfire hits skimmers too)
Dark Angels - inb4 Space marines so therefore miss out on all the new toys and have bad fliers

They don't hate any 1 army, you just have to roll with the nerfs

And rather grudgingly except that some armies will always seem to get the epic shaft from GW...

For example, DA's have had it stuck to them by being before Codex Marines twice now, while their 3rd ed add-on book was so hilariously over-costed that GW had to put an errata in WD and then run a 2nd printing of their mini-dex!
Sisters have been largely ignored since 2nd edition with only a single 'new' model release wave in what, 16 or 17 years now?!

Orks, Eldar/D.Eldar simply tend to be in the camp that gets to wait about 10 year or so between updates. But they do at least typically get really good books when they do get that shiny new book! (remember back in 3rd when they were released, how Orks made all 2+ saves pretty much useless with their Choppas?! )

Tyranids typically have pretty good books, but their 5th ed one was a big fat epic-fail due to it's horrible internal balancing AND being an assault-based army with little anti-tank in the edition of Transporthammer.

Those were good days for orks...

Hopefully, the new SM dex won't be the OPfest of peoples nightmares and will actually be balanced against the other dex's...

Hopefully.

I play against Orks all the time, a friend has a true horde (I play Vanilla Marines).

Between his 30man blobs of Shootas, 13 odd Lootas and some 10 Deffcoptas it takes all my effort not to get my butt handed to me. He is not fielding jets yet but the Dakka is coming... (doom!) so you even have aircraft, not bad. I made the mistake of managing to charge one of those shoota blobs and them getting in a "snap fire" felt more like a normal fire.

I understand the need for something updated and shiny but you can still do serious damage with not much thought... which is the true Ork method unless you are Ghazghkhul.

They were downright rude and nasty the couple versions back, now they are sufficiently toned down there is some challenge to your games. Try something different, those koptas you cannot shoot at piecemeal: wounds spread all over those silly things and with the twin link missiles they tend to kill armor pretty good if the loota boys don't get to them first.

You have issues with Tyranid? These poor guys had TRULEY been done over with a nerf bat. They need serious correction, be patient, wait your turn.

Just my viewpoint from what I have seen, you have some great choices to draw from and only see you feeling the same pain the rest of us are with Tau and Necrons.

They are not my kind of army but they are so much fun to play against, I never know if I will die like a dog or squeak in a win.

Predakhanine: "Orks, Eldar/D.Eldar simply tend to be in the camp that gets to wait about 10 year or so between updates. But they do at least typically get really good books when they do get that shiny new book! (remember back in 3rd when they were released, how Orks made all 2+ saves pretty much useless with their Choppas?! )"


yes i remember this, i hated that first game after my little brother got his new ork dex. I laughed when he charged my terminators with a squad of slugga boys...then he asked me to make armor saves :I

At least Orks aren't still using 2nd edition models which end up making the army one of the most expensive to start up.

 Melissia wrote:
At least Orks aren't still using 2nd edition models which end up making the army one of the most expensive to start up.

Which given that pretty much every ork army needs quite a crap ton would be utterly horrible.

I wonder if you could share your feels with people who have to scrounge around for absurd prices to collect their Mordians/Steel Legion/Other guard lines GW doesn't like anymore.

Thanks for the replies. I think I'm just getting a bit cranky as it seems like they haven't been updated for years, but then again lots of other armies haven't either until recently and then theres the sob... Patience

 Melissia wrote:
At least Orks aren't still using 2nd edition models which end up making the army one of the most expensive to start up.

Some of the Ork models are still from 2nd ed.

Gork and Mork wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm just getting a bit cranky as it seems like they haven't been updated for years, but then again lots of other armies haven't either until recently and then theres the sob... Patience

Well if you really want to feel orky, let me recommend the Ultimate Apocalypse mod for Dawn of War 1.

With the right combination of game modes you can spam thousands of orks to fight thousands of guardsmen/tyranids and really understand what 40k is all about.

Stuff blowing up.

 Melissia wrote:
At least Orks aren't still using 2nd edition models which end up making the army one of the most expensive to start up.

It is so strange they have not got model updates.
They are a critical element of 40k history and no avoiding them in any given book.
They are certainly the most characterful of any army.
Just the concept of angry armored nuns strike terror in anyone with a Roman Catholic background.
I imagine that when they do get a green light the sculpt artists will have a cage match on who gets to do them.

Orks have their own (minor) issues, my friend is fielding his original orks (back in the Rogue Trader days) as Gretchen due to model size creep, a modern Ork looks like a warboss in comparison.

I've been playing Orks since the days of punker mini orks with beerkeg heavy plasma guns.

They can still kick butt. They could do with some new shinies, to be sure. They don't NEED them really though.

6th isn't utterly horrible for Orks. Having our Nobs challengekilled is aggravating, and assault took a hit, but as mentioned above Snap Fire is great for Orks, and random charge distance can produce some truly EPIC charges.

Bikers got better this edition too. Night fighting shrouded with a 4+ innate cover save? Works for me

My orks have held up fine. I actually enjoy the codex in 6th.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
At least Orks aren't still using 2nd edition models which end up making the army one of the most expensive to start up.

It is so strange they have not got model updates.
They are a critical element of 40k history and no avoiding them in any given book.
They are certainly the most characterful of any army.
Just the concept of angry armored nuns strike terror in anyone with a Roman Catholic background.
I imagine that when they do get a green light the sculpt artists will have a cage match on who gets to do them.

Orks have their own (minor) issues, my friend is fielding his original orks (back in the Rogue Trader days) as Gretchen due to model size creep, a modern Ork looks like a warboss in comparison.

Your optimism and outlook on SOB models is refreshing. Misplaced and misguided, I think, but refreshing.

Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

Honestly, the only thing I think all you Ork players need to somewhat fear is the potential for Ward to write the next book...
For anyone who remembers 7th edition Orcs&Gobbos, you'll understand what a truly horrible thought a repeat, but '40k style' would be!

For those who missed out, or don't play Fantasy, he basically admitted right in WD that he dislikes the greenskins & was not enthused at all about being "stuck with" the project. The resulting book was bland as feth, and underpowered as hell!
The army became so weaksauce that even hardcore Orc generals shelved their army... (and we all tend to know how hardcore you die-hard Greenies are!)

 Psienesis wrote:
Your optimism and outlook on SOB models is refreshing. Misplaced and misguided, I think, but refreshing.
Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

I was gaming when Squats did their disappearing act, so I am not really seeing those kinds of signs for SOB.
My optimism and outlook being "misplaced and misguided" or "bad prioritizing and faulty judgment" is your opinion (a rather snooty one at that), feel free to elaborate.
There is a great deal of room in their lore to fill in, an opportunity both in models and fluff.
There are more than a couple fans of the army just going by some of the avatars out there.

We can always place our bets on SOB or Orks getting their codex first. I should be careful, with "their", "codex", "supplement" or spot in someone else's codex (Inquisition?).

Heads up:

Nids got hit even harder than we did, and have been hurting literally ever since their codex was released. Their update (and the Black Templar coincidentally) were a long time coming.

We're also rumored to be one of the next in line. So just be patient.

Our codex can still win, if you're willing to take certain units, and can definitely be fun to play.

I'm just hoping GW doesn't drop the ball with the next codex. If they manage to screw it or IG up, it'll probably be enough to make me leave the game (at least until another codex is released in 5 years time)

 Talizvar wrote:
Just the concept of angry armored nuns strike terror in anyone with a Roman Catholic background.

To people with rotten minds such as myself, the concept might strike the opposite feeling.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Your optimism and outlook on SOB models is refreshing. Misplaced and misguided, I think, but refreshing.
Hope is, as they say, the first step on the road to disappointment.

I was gaming when Squats did their disappearing act, so I am not really seeing those kinds of signs for SOB.
My optimism and outlook being "misplaced and misguided" or "bad prioritizing and faulty judgment" is your opinion (a rather snooty one at that), feel free to elaborate.
There is a great deal of room in their lore to fill in, an opportunity both in models and fluff.
There are more than a couple fans of the army just going by some of the avatars out there.

We can always place our bets on SOB or Orks getting their codex first. I should be careful, with "their", "codex", "supplement" or spot in someone else's codex (Inquisition?).

Simply because it's been, what, three years now? Five? that we've had rumors of "new SOB models in plastic OMG-E!" that have met with some rumored problem or another that has prevented them from being released. Whether its the robe sleeves being too hard to work with to make poseable miniatures, or the molds all breaking and being unrepairable or something else entirely, the idea that there are artists just chomping at the bit to produce the line is, I think, not cognizant of current trends with the army. I think GW is operating under the belief that what they've done for the Sisters lately is "good enough". That it isn't, and that GW has not released any real information on the subject, says to me that they simply *don't* have a plan on what to do with this product, which is too bad, because the Sisters of Battle are in the top 3 of my favorite factions.

While I don't expect them to be Squatted, I also don't expect them to get much more than the WD Codex they got. Maybe they'll get a PDF version of that on GW's site, free (ha!) to download... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I think it's a matter of the typical GW schedule... they haven't released new models for this line in so long, the models that do exist are older than many people who play the damned game, and are fairly hard to come by and/or it is an expensive army to build. This leads to poor sales, of course, which leads GW to not expend resources on updating it properly, which continues to lead to poor sales, and so forth. Of course, Dark Eldar historically had this same problem, and then a new line of models was introduced with an updated Codex, and they are now a popular Xeno army.

They are now one of the most expensive armies to collect and build, with limited choices in models, few effective builds, and few options for truly customizing the army to make it your own, while our other power armored choices offer a range of options, units, and playstyles, depending on which Codex you want to go with and which flavor of Space Marine you choose to play. With the fluff including so many mentions of Orders Minor, this level of variety should be available to the Sisters, but it isn't, and the loss of its Inquisitorial ties has only further limited its viability on the tabletop, apart from a very few specific builds.

Since the days of Rogue Trader, I would say its safe to say the Orks have had the most amount of changes from codex to codex. IMHO, they have flipped/flopped too many times to count.

But so long as they keep to the fluff, keep to the general orky way of doing battle (large mobs of boyz,). A new codex usually means a few new toys to build, paint, and play with. So long as it does not invalidate half your current standing Orks army, it will be worth the wait.

I don't see how people can argue that 6th has gotten kinder to Orks. If you go with a foot horde, you end up removing tons of models from the front ranks which reduces the amount of distance you cover each turn. You might move your mob forward 6", but then lose 2" as your front ranks are decimated. 12 boyz in a trukk isn't that effective either, because as soon as you lose one model you're no longer fearless and trying to assault with 12 Orks is painful, thanks to overwatch. You'll usually lose several of your boyz to the overwatch. Then if you get into combat, you lose more boyz because of their slow init because almost every army strikes first in assault. Your Nob simply gets challenged and more often than not, killed before he can even swing. If the Nob does get to swing, well, good for him, he just did 1 wound to a sergeant. Your boyz lose combat, break and get overrun.

The KFF isn't that great for Orks either now, versus several armies, because of Ignores Cover. If you're fighting Tau or Eldar, you just end up scooping handfuls of models off the table. They can outshoot you, they're more mobile than you and can avoid contact with your squads for most of the game. Precision shots are also devastating against Orks, because even their Characters have terrible saves.

Orks are fun to play casually, but, 6th has not been good to them.

I think the rage is unwarranted given how the Orks codex has aged gracefully and wonderfully compared to many codices before it like the Tyranids and Blood Angels which have quickly become in need of an update due to the recent changes in rules. In contrast to this the Ork codex still does relatively well with multiple viable and fun builds and although some definitely got nerfed heavily (i.e. Kan Wall) others got boosted or remained the same for the most part (Deffwing due to buff towards 2+ saves and Nob Bikers being true T5). Our basic troops choice still remain as one of the most cost efficient unit in the game and even with challenges many enemies are wary to take on a full sized mob of boyz, especially if an additional character with a PK is in there because then you can only prevent one character from attacking by demanding a challenge.

To be honest I am actually worried about a new Ork codex due to the very money-oriented/model-selling based rules they put out to promote their products and especially if the rumours are true about Matt Ward being our new codex author you can be sure he won't give a frak about how our book ends up either in terms of fluff (which he will inevitably dumb down or ruin with his own negative perception towards greenskins) or deliberately make them underpowered ala Orcs and Goblins in 7th ed. where he explicitly said he didn't care much about Orcs/Gobbos and made them what he expected them to be in contrast to his 7th ed. Daemons book where he said "It'd be a shame if they weren't overpowered".

To be honest I am actually worried about a new Ork codex due to the very money-oriented/model-selling based rules they put out to promote their products and especially if the rumours are true about Matt Ward being our new codex author you can be sure he won't give a frak about how our book ends up either in terms of fluff (which he will inevitably dumb down or ruin with his own negative perception towards greenskins)

In all honesty, HOW!? The ork fluff is something that screams Ward! I mean he does over the top heroes and weird combinations, and that's just straight Orky, I mean we've got an ork Biker who rammed through a titans face, survived being on fire killed the crew and drove off. Orks are already above the standard when it comes to "How can it do that!" Levels.

deliberately make them underpowered ala Orcs and Goblins in 7th ed. where he explicitly said he didn't care much about Orcs/Gobbos and made them what he expected them to be in contrast to his 7th ed. Daemons book where he said "It'd be a shame if they weren't overpowered".

You've taken both the quotes and mangled them hard, it's still no worse then what the others do when it comes to UP/OP codex's.

a fat guy wrote:


The main point of this post was to point out that GW never target any army in particular and say "That one. Let's make that one crap.".

Agree for the most part, with the exception of SOB

Wait, is this a thread complaining about how an army got screwed over by a codex that we haven't even seen yet? I mean, this seems awfully premature.