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Okay, under the Graviton rule on page 121 of the new Codex: Space Marines, it states the following:

"...but on a 6, the target suffers an Immobilized result and loses a single Hull Point."

That sounds like two different effects. Immobilized + 1 Hull Point.

Now, on the Vehicle Table on page 74 of the rule book under 5. Immobilized, it states:

"Any Immobilized results suffered by an already Immobilized vehicle... instead removes an additional Hull Point."

So say I've opened fire on an undamaged enemy vehicle with a squad of Devastator Centurions and roll two 6's for damage. What's the end result? The first hit would inflict an Immobilized result on the vehicle and inflict 1 Hull point of damage, that's certain. But does that mean that the second shot would inflict two Hull Points of damage? Thanks for the help.

Sounds like a reasonable reading to me.

That's the way I read it too.

Closest thing I could find in the rulebook FAQ was this.

Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

I see 2 results are possible, one saying it causes an immobilized result and causes 1 hull point lost(so one lost), the 2nd shot would also do the same, but since it already is immobalized(as a rule not a damage roll on the chart) and specifies 1 hull point lost, you would lose(one hull point) so 2 lost total for the 2 6's rolled.
Other viewpoint i can see is as stated from other users above as if its already immobalized its suffers a hull point loss, plus the hull point loss to the rule. So im lost in my own explanation.

Your listed FAQ does not apply. The answer is 3 hull points. I have a large explanation, as well as answers to other questions here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/550850.page

I agree that it should be 3 hull points.

Reading your view of it makes sense, 2 shots, 3 hull points. w00t

Holy Terra, a clear consensus on YMDC?!

Everyone watch out for flying pigs while your out and about today...

 Sothas wrote:
Your listed FAQ does not apply. The answer is 3 hull points. I have a large explanation, as well as answers to other questions here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/550850.page

The FAQ does and it doesn't apply, yes a 2nd shot will ruin most people's day but there is a reason that FAQ exists and it's important that people that believe that spend ages going on about how a drop pod looses a hull point when it deploys don't start pulling shenanigans.
I am glad that FAQ exists or it would be a case of 1 shot taking out all light vehicles with a grav gun.

3 shots to kill a landraider is powerful indeed. Im not looking forward to fighting grav guns.

One lascannon can kill a land raider with one shot, with about the same odds of success.

A unit's shooting happens simultaneously, so 2 shots/sixes would only inflict 2 hull points and the vehicle would be immobilized. You only inflict the additional hull point if the vehicle was immobilized prior to the centurions shooting.

I go for 2 Hull points.

Because the Immobilised isnt caused by a penetrating hit. You can only glance a tank, thus the penetrationtable wouldnt kick in.

Three hull points.
Shot 1: 1HP and Immobilize
Shot 2: 1HP and Immobilize, but it's already Immobilized so a second HP!
Total: Three Hull Points

But what are the chances of that happening?
A biker-squad has 6 shots.
That are four hits that need double 6!

tallguynsc wrote:
A unit's shooting happens simultaneously, so 2 shots/sixes would only inflict 2 hull points and the vehicle would be immobilized. You only inflict the additional hull point if the vehicle was immobilized prior to the centurions shooting.

The shooting happens simultaneously, but damage results absolutely do not.

Fandarel wrote:
I go for 2 Hull points.

Because the Immobilised isnt caused by a penetrating hit. You can only glance a tank, thus the penetrationtable wouldnt kick in.

What basis in rules do you come to this conclusion?
Why does a pen need to happen to cause immobilisation? The damagae table comes into play in how you have to implement the damge inflicted on a vehicle.

Kangodo wrote:
Three hull points.
Shot 1: 1HP and Immobilize
Shot 2: 1HP and Immobilize, but it's already Immobilized so a second HP!
Total: Three Hull Points

But what are the chances of that happening?
A biker-squad has 6 shots.
That are four hits that need double 6!

Why?
2 weapons hit, roll on the chart, 2 6's... -3 hull points.

That's what I said.

You said 4 hits that need double 6's.
There's only 2 hits required and they need to roll 6s.

So no, that's not what you said.

He said 4 hits because that's the average number of hits you'd expect with 2 gravguns.

If the shooting happens at the same time, the damage happens at the same time. The only time you roll tank damage one at a time is for a vehicle squadron, otherwise you roll the damage at the same time.

So a squad of 4 Centurions, fires 20 GC shots... 13 hit, 2 on the first roll should get 6's (that's -3 HP right there). The other 11 reroll (Grav Amp), getting 1-2 more... dead LR. Math hammers to 4.12 immobilizes a turn (that's not counting the extra from additional immobilized results... which would make it 7.12 a turn... watch out Leman Russ Squads)

Same squad had LC instead. That's 4 shots, 3.5 hits, 1.19 hull points, 20% chance to destroy

At 24", GC are far more deadly to AV14 than LC, at longer ranges and lower AV, the LC catch up quick, however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tallguynsc wrote:
If the shooting happens at the same time, the damage happens at the same time. The only time you roll tank damage one at a time is for a vehicle squadron, otherwise you roll the damage at the same time.

So I can destroy the same weapon 4 times on the same vehicle?

rigeld2 wrote:
You said 4 hits that need double 6's.
There's only 2 hits required and they need to roll 6s.

So no, that's not what you said.

I said that a Biker-group will average on 4 hits, and only two of those need a six.
So it's exactly what I said.

Kangodo wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You said 4 hits that need double 6's.
There's only 2 hits required and they need to roll 6s.

So no, that's not what you said.

I said that a Biker-group will average on 4 hits, and only two of those need a six.
So it's exactly what I said.

Ah - I misunderstood - that's not clear.
Thanks.

tallguynsc wrote:
If the shooting happens at the same time, the damage happens at the same time. The only time you roll tank damage one at a time is for a vehicle squadron, otherwise you roll the damage at the same time.

By this logic, if I shoot a tank with a pair of melta guns and score 2 weapon destroyed results, I only get to remove 1 weapon.

No, if you get 2 weapon destroyed results and the tank has multiple weapons, 2 random weapons get destroyed and lose 2 hull points. But if there's only 1 weapon, just lose 1 weapon.

Unfortunately for my Land Raiders and Rhinos, I think the 3 hull point for 2 Grav Gun 6s is correct.

 Sothas wrote:
Your listed FAQ does not apply. The answer is 3 hull points. I have a large explanation, as well as answers to other questions here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/550850.page

Did anyone bring up the fact yet that Grav specifically says you lose a single hull point?

Yeah 3 HPs I literally don't see any other way to read it. Think of it this way if we were back in 5th would you argue against a 2nd (and subsequent) 6(s) causing weapon destroyed?

As for the veracity of this tactic then consider Grav Centurions. 5 shots a model and 6s rerolling a squad of 3 should Kill a Landraider nearly every time they shoot it.

tallguynsc wrote:
If the shooting happens at the same time, the damage happens at the same time. The only time you roll tank damage one at a time is for a vehicle squadron, otherwise you roll the damage at the same time.

No, that's not how it works.

Did anyone bring up the fact yet that Grav specifically says you lose a single hull point?

I'm sure we all know that Grav weapons cause a single HP and have another effect (immobilised on an non-immobilised vehicle and extra HP on already immobilised vehicles).