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White Scars, with Khan.
Centurions can take a land raider as a dedicated transport, which would gain Scout.
If you take a land raider crusader, you could fit up to 5 Centurions in it, and still have room for an HQ on foot.
It's a 310 point assault unit, that jumps out with 5 twin-linked flamers and 5 hurricane bolters.
Combat, it charges in with 16 S9 AP2 armor bane attacks at init 4, with frag grenades thanks to the raider.

It doesn't have the same durability of hammernators, but the firepower is enough to thump hordes that would seriously tie up terminators.
I think people who see them as a waste aren't taking the shooting into effect. 60 points for hurricane bolter and twin-flamer is a discounted assault dreadnought.
Yes, you need a transport, but with the scout move thanks to Khan, even if it get's popped turn 1, you're already mid-field.

They work pretty well naked and on foot already. Don't know that I'd blow a bunch of points on a Land Raider.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They work pretty well naked and on foot already. Don't know that I'd blow a bunch of points on a Land Raider.

And you noticed I said ASSAULT, not Devastator?

-Matt

How exactly do you get assault centurions where they need to be on foot?

You are looking at 750 - 800 points with an HQ - ouch!

You will find it difficult to win against solid opponents at any level under 2000 - it is the "all of your eggs in one basket" mentality, and it usually works exceedingly well or goes horribly wrong. I by far prefer a well-rounded, resilient build with redundant units, and you have none of that with that many points tied up in a hammer unit.

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
How exactly do you get assault centurions where they need to be on foot?

You are looking at 750 - 800 points with an HQ - ouch!

You will find it difficult to win against solid opponents at any level under 2000 - it is the "all of your eggs in one basket" mentality, and it usually works exceedingly well or goes horribly wrong. I by far prefer a well-rounded, resilient build with redundant units, and you have none of that with that many points tied up in a hammer unit.

310 points of centurions, 250 point dedicated transport.
560 points. HQ can be on a bike elsewhere, doesn't need to be in the unit.

Against a green tide, they erased an entire unit in a shooting phase. 5 twin-linked flamers, and 5 hurricane bolters; 34 wounds on the lead tide.
Shoota boyz then moved up and fired (did 1 wound; with 5+ to hit, 5+ to wound, and 2+ armor), then charged doing 1 wound again (4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 2+ armor; and the Nob was smoked in challenge by S9 Init 4, AP2 hit). They took the charge and held; then faced a grind where the orks needed 4+ to hit, 6+ to wound, and 2+ armor, which tied up the 2nd shooting mob for the rest of the game.

310 points of elites killed a 245 point ork boyz unit, and tied up another 245 point boyz unit. Meanwhile, the crusader peppered the orks with quite a bit of fire.
The S9 Init4 is so much better than I thought it was going to be. It scared off the Mega-Nobs (they'd die before they swing), and the massed S4 firepower is daunting.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They work pretty well naked and on foot already. Don't know that I'd blow a bunch of points on a Land Raider.

And you noticed I said ASSAULT, not Devastator?

Yes. See any thread about Mutilators.

Yes. See any thread about Mutilators

All the Mutilator threads I've seen say they don't work ...


OP:

Your suggestion looks really interesting, but that's a TON of points. I'd be curious to see someone try it. It could work but I think it depends heavily on the rest of your list.

While they seem crazy strong i think that youre either going to spend too much to do it, or hope to god youre facing another army thats trying to get close to you anyway.

If i were facing against Orks or Nidz i would bring them. Both armies WILL get closer to you.
Warbosses will only get to paste them if they actually survive the 16 I4 attacks, which i highly doubt lol
Nidzilla will smash obviously, but ifaik unless its the Swarmlord theyre at best even initiative with the assault cents so you'd ravage them in the process (dont know enough specifics about nidz to know if thats actually a wise idea or not lol)

I had the idea of chucking 4 and an Ironclad into a Stormtalon. Have the talon zoom onto the board and drop off the Dread and the Centurions into their deployment zone turn 2. Both of those units have Move Through Cover, which means they ignore the difficult terrain test. Then they can soften up people with their flamers and you still have the talon and dread there for fire support as well.

You can't assault after the drop, but it's enough to put serious pressure on your opponent turn 2. Combine with Sicarus to make sure that Talon turns up when it is supposed to.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
How exactly do you get assault centurions where they need to be on foot?

You are looking at 750 - 800 points with an HQ - ouch!

You will find it difficult to win against solid opponents at any level under 2000 - it is the "all of your eggs in one basket" mentality, and it usually works exceedingly well or goes horribly wrong. I by far prefer a well-rounded, resilient build with redundant units, and you have none of that with that many points tied up in a hammer unit.

310 points of centurions, 250 point dedicated transport.
560 points. HQ can be on a bike elsewhere, doesn't need to be in the unit.

Against a green tide, they erased an entire unit in a shooting phase. 5 twin-linked flamers, and 5 hurricane bolters; 34 wounds on the lead tide.
Shoota boyz then moved up and fired (did 1 wound; with 5+ to hit, 5+ to wound, and 2+ armor), then charged doing 1 wound again (4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 2+ armor; and the Nob was smoked in challenge by S9 Init 4, AP2 hit). They took the charge and held; then faced a grind where the orks needed 4+ to hit, 6+ to wound, and 2+ armor, which tied up the 2nd shooting mob for the rest of the game.

310 points of elites killed a 245 point ork boyz unit, and tied up another 245 point boyz unit. Meanwhile, the crusader peppered the orks with quite a bit of fire.
The S9 Init4 is so much better than I thought it was going to be. It scared off the Mega-Nobs (they'd die before they swing), and the massed S4 firepower is daunting.

-Matt

Of course they trashed orks - a squad of plain terminators would have done the same thing. That does not make them a good buy for the points!
Do you attend large tournaments? There is a reason that you rarely see a land raider at the higher levels of play. Adding a squad of super-expensive terminators to the questionable land raider only amplifies the waste of points!
For fun games, sure, knock yourself out. They look fun. Competitively, not so much.

Assault centurions are actually worse than mutilators.. The answer is pretty much no, and using a land raider to move them isn't a real option.. just use terminators at that point.

 snorri788 wrote:
I had the idea of chucking 4 and an Ironclad into a Stormtalon. Have the talon zoom onto the board and drop off the Dread and the Centurions into their deployment zone turn 2. Both of those units have Move Through Cover, which means they ignore the difficult terrain test. Then they can soften up people with their flamers and you still have the talon and dread there for fire support as well.

You can't assault after the drop, but it's enough to put serious pressure on your opponent turn 2. Combine with Sicarus to make sure that Talon turns up when it is supposed to.

ohh a storm talon. thats one BIG belly its got. i didnt think that they made the storm talon a tranport in the new dex. sheesh. how crazy is Gw.

just kidding. i believce you mean storm RAVEN

 Kirasu wrote:
Assault centurions are actually worse than mutilators.. The answer is pretty much no, and using a land raider to move them isn't a real option.. just use terminators at that point.

Except Centurions bring a lot that mutilators and terminators don't.
At close range, Assault Centurions outshoot tactical squads. Hurricane bolters and twin flamers are really good up close. S9 AP2 at Init 4 is likewise really good.
Each one basically fights and shoots like an Ironclad dreadnought, at half the cost.

I've been playing around with a unit of 5 in the raider, and another unit of 4 in a stormraven. It's a ton of points; but if you focus core on armor killing, you end up with a pretty well rounded list.
I think a lot of people are writing them off without actually trying them. Try showing up with 13 hurricane bolters in an army. It's punishing.

-Matt

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 snorri788 wrote:
I had the idea of chucking 4 and an Ironclad into a Stormtalon. Have the talon zoom onto the board and drop off the Dread and the Centurions into their deployment zone turn 2. Both of those units have Move Through Cover, which means they ignore the difficult terrain test. Then they can soften up people with their flamers and you still have the talon and dread there for fire support as well.

You can't assault after the drop, but it's enough to put serious pressure on your opponent turn 2. Combine with Sicarus to make sure that Talon turns up when it is supposed to.

ohh a storm talon. thats one BIG belly its got. i didnt think that they made the storm talon a tranport in the new dex. sheesh. how crazy is Gw.

just kidding. i believce you mean storm RAVEN

I did mean the Raven. I keep getting the two confused.

Raven idea might not be that bad of an idea. interesting how it can have a dread in there as well as another unit.

Both are pretty durable in vast majority of situations, they might get hurt before they can charge but they wouldnt be dead barring bad pen result on the ironclad.

 Kirasu wrote:
Assault centurions are actually worse than mutilators.. The answer is pretty much no, and using a land raider to move them isn't a real option.. just use terminators at that point.

I would argue cents are a lot better than mutilators. Neither unit can run at least cents bring a ton of close range firepower. Their str9 attacks strike at initiative also right? They'll beat mutilators head to head every day.

I think Assault Centurions are better if you have a reliable means of getting them close to the enemy, but Mutilators are better otherwise-- a Mutilator or two teleporting into the enemy backfield (preferably with the Mark of Nurgle) can be highly disruptive in the same way that solo Paladins in a Draigo army can, while Assault Centurions don't have these options.

A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

maybe even add a chaplain for those re rolls for the centurions

 Senortaco wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

maybe even add a chaplain for those re rolls for the centurions

I would say 2 10 man squads of sniper ML scouts to hang back behind cover and take out any quadgun crew. Anything that your opponent has on the table with Interceptor has the possibility to really ruin your day. Apart from that, a Chaplain in Terminator armour is a nice bet with the Centurions in the Stormraven, but he will have to take a dangerous terrain test when he hits the ground, so might backfire.

 snorri788 wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

maybe even add a chaplain for those re rolls for the centurions

I would say 2 10 man squads of sniper ML scouts to hang back behind cover and take out any quadgun crew. Anything that your opponent has on the table with Interceptor has the possibility to really ruin your day. Apart from that, a Chaplain in Terminator armour is a nice bet with the Centurions in the Stormraven, but he will have to take a dangerous terrain test when he hits the ground, so might backfire.

All very pricey. You would prob have to switch the ass cents for dev ones seeing as you need the elite slots for sterns.

Dev cents would be better then the ass cents IMO, I wouldn't think your opponent would like to keep any of his units near them, except maybe melee Death Stars.

 Senortaco wrote:

 snorri788 wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

maybe even add a chaplain for those re rolls for the centurions

I would say 2 10 man squads of sniper ML scouts to hang back behind cover and take out any quadgun crew. Anything that your opponent has on the table with Interceptor has the possibility to really ruin your day. Apart from that, a Chaplain in Terminator armour is a nice bet with the Centurions in the Stormraven, but he will have to take a dangerous terrain test when he hits the ground, so might backfire.

All very pricey. You would prob have to switch the ass cents for dev ones seeing as you need the elite slots for sterns.

Dev cents would be better then the ass cents IMO, I wouldn't think your opponent would like to keep any of his units near them, except maybe melee Death Stars.

Kantor 185

Chaplain in Terminator Armour 120

7 Scouts with Camo Cloaks and Sniper Rifles 107

6 Scouts with Camo Cloaks and Sniper Rifles 96

10 Tactical Marines with Combi Flamer, Flamer and Heavy Bolter 165
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

10 Tactical Marines with Combi Flamer, Flamer and Heavy Bolter 165
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

10 Sternguard with 8 Combi Weapons and 2 Heavy Flamers 340
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

4 Assault Centurions, 2 TL Meltaguns 260

IronClad Dreadnought with 2 heavy flamers, seismic hammer 145

Stormraven with TL Lascannons and TL MultiMelta 200

Hunter 70

1988

Edit: Made a boo-boo. All fixed now.

You know, you could swap out the chaplain and a scout squad for a DA librarian and tech marine (power field), and run the scouts as DA scouts (same cost).

That would give a storm raven a 4+ invul, and let the tech marine make repairs while he's embarked.

-Matt

 snorri788 wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:

 snorri788 wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Senortaco wrote:
A Pedro DP list with the stormraven idea could work. sternies come in T1 to soften up targets. T2, raven and additional DPs come on to finish the job

That would also give you a good number of scoring units, and the extra attack from Pedro would help too.
Scout snipers for troops to take out quadgun?
Locator beacons in the pods so that you don't scatter if jumping out of the storm raven?

-Matt

maybe even add a chaplain for those re rolls for the centurions

I would say 2 10 man squads of sniper ML scouts to hang back behind cover and take out any quadgun crew. Anything that your opponent has on the table with Interceptor has the possibility to really ruin your day. Apart from that, a Chaplain in Terminator armour is a nice bet with the Centurions in the Stormraven, but he will have to take a dangerous terrain test when he hits the ground, so might backfire.

All very pricey. You would prob have to switch the ass cents for dev ones seeing as you need the elite slots for sterns.

Dev cents would be better then the ass cents IMO, I wouldn't think your opponent would like to keep any of his units near them, except maybe melee Death Stars.

Kantor 185

Chaplain in Terminator Armour 120

7 Scouts with Camo Cloaks and Sniper Rifles 107

6 Scouts with Camo Cloaks and Sniper Rifles 96

10 Tactical Marines with Combi Flamer, Flamer and Heavy Bolter 165
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

10 Tactical Marines with Combi Flamer, Flamer and Heavy Bolter 165
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

10 Sternguard with 8 Combi Weapons and 2 Heavy Flamers 340
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon 45

4 Assault Centurions, 2 TL Meltaguns 260

IronClad Dreadnought with 2 heavy flamers, seismic hammer 145

Stormraven with TL Lascannons and TL MultiMelta 200

Hunter 70

1988

Edit: Made a boo-boo. All fixed now.

I would rather turn the Tac squads into sternies and bump the scouts up to 10men

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
You know, you could swap out the chaplain and a scout squad for a DA librarian and tech marine (power field), and run the scouts as DA scouts (same cost).

That would give a storm raven a 4+ invul, and let the tech marine make repairs while he's embarked.

-Matt

Except that whole argument about the battle brothers in allied transports.

Senortaco - I know that the sternguard are good, but I think that I'd take 2 tactical squads over 1 sternguard anyday.

What is the capacity of the Stormraven? I think that the 4 centurions plus the chaplain in his terminator armour might be too much.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
How exactly do you get assault centurions where they need to be on foot?

You are looking at 750 - 800 points with an HQ - ouch!

You will find it difficult to win against solid opponents at any level under 2000 - it is the "all of your eggs in one basket" mentality, and it usually works exceedingly well or goes horribly wrong. I by far prefer a well-rounded, resilient build with redundant units, and you have none of that with that many points tied up in a hammer unit.

310 points of centurions, 250 point dedicated transport.
560 points. HQ can be on a bike elsewhere, doesn't need to be in the unit.

Against a green tide, they erased an entire unit in a shooting phase. 5 twin-linked flamers, and 5 hurricane bolters; 34 wounds on the lead tide.
Shoota boyz then moved up and fired (did 1 wound; with 5+ to hit, 5+ to wound, and 2+ armor), then charged doing 1 wound again (4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 2+ armor; and the Nob was smoked in challenge by S9 Init 4, AP2 hit). They took the charge and held; then faced a grind where the orks needed 4+ to hit, 6+ to wound, and 2+ armor, which tied up the 2nd shooting mob for the rest of the game.

310 points of elites killed a 245 point ork boyz unit, and tied up another 245 point boyz unit. Meanwhile, the crusader peppered the orks with quite a bit of fire.
The S9 Init4 is so much better than I thought it was going to be. It scared off the Mega-Nobs (they'd die before they swing), and the massed S4 firepower is daunting.

-Matt

Hi 310 elite unit, meet Ghazzy.

 illuknisaa wrote:
Hi 310 elite unit, meet Ghazzy.

But is that really an argument? Every elite CC-unit will lose to Ghazzy.
With a 2++, Eternal Warrior, WS6 and 7 S10AP2 attacks on the charge he will kill anything.

That guy is like an Ork-Primarch with his stats and I am sure he'll win CC with most of them

 snorri788 wrote:
Senortaco - I know that the sternguard are good, but I think that I'd take 2 tactical squads over 1 sternguard anyday.

What is the capacity of the Stormraven? I think that the 4 centurions plus the chaplain in his terminator armour might be too much.

12 models and/or a dreadnought