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Hello everyone, quick question!

A long time ago, before I ever considered owning a small DIY C:SM battleforce, I read about one or two chapters that worshiped the God-Emperor as a God. I was thinking about having something related to this chapter, a successor chapter if you will that also worships a saint.

I can't remember for the life of me what chapters were those and I'm somewhat curious. I don't think they even had official pictures, I think they may have been bits of text originally in a White Dwarf or something like that. (But none of them were the Black Templars. I read about these chapters way before the new C:SM and hence, the new BT fluff).

Thanks for the help everyone!

At this point, the Emperor is effectively worshipped by all loyalist Space Marines. Its more akin to ancestor worship than being a true god but it still counts.

There are some chapters that worship the Emperor as a god, though they seem to be the minority. The Red Hunters are an example.

I suspect it's more common amongst more recent foundings.

Red Scorpions are die hard followers of the Imperial Creed that worship the emperor as a divine being

The Soul Drinkers in the novels worship the Emperor as a God.

Grey Templar wrote:At this point, the Emperor is effectively worshipped by all loyalist Space Marines. Its more akin to ancestor worship than being a true god but it still counts.

Thank you, but I really want those who are followers of the Imperial Creed, true worshippers of Him as a God, not "just" as the most powerful human that ever existed and worthy of their respect.

Harriticus wrote:There are some chapters that worship the Emperor as a god, though they seem to be the minority. The Red Hunters are an example.

Oohh, nice one, these guys look pretty cool.

BrianDavion wrote:I suspect it's more common amongst more recent foundings.

Really? Why's that?

Alpha 1 wrote:Red Scorpions are die hard followers of the Imperial Creed that worship the emperor as a divine being

Well, I'll be damned, I had absolutely no idea the Red Scorpions were IC followers! I have to check out info about them.

xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:The Soul Drinkers in the novels worship the Emperor as a God.

DOUBLE damn! I have never read their books, but this sounds very promising!

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:I suspect it's more common amongst more recent foundings.

Really? Why's that?

Less "Chapter History" to tell them otherwise. The 8th founding and beyond were all created roughly 2000 years after the solidification of the Imperial Cult, and thus are more likely if not completely compliant with the Imperial Cult.

The 26th founding is the most recent happening in 738m41

Most chapters venerate him as the most powerful man to have ever lived, but still a man.
But like others have said there are a number of well known chapter who worship as a god. Another very devout chapter are the Fire Angels (Think religious nutters with loads of tanks).

Whilst none of the first founding chapter would worship him as a god as he walked amongst men when they were founded as the legions. A small number of chapters from all the other foundings would worship him as a god, although they would be a minority.

If you look at it from a logical perspective, the original Chapters, those that were once Legions, probably don't, as most of them have recounting the Heresy and Great Crusade, of the time when the Emperor walked amongst Mankind.

All of the Successor Chapters, though, down through the ones set up just last week, are drawing all of their recruits from the populations of worlds that already venerate the Emperor as a god. It does not make a lot of sense to take this bunch of people, whether they are barbaric Feral Worlders worshipping the "Sky Father" or hardy Frontier World folks who have venerated the God-Emperor in their little cathedrals on the prairie for the last 7,000 years, and then make them into Space Marines and say "oh, yeah, about that God-Emperor business? It ain't true...."

Doesn't make any sense, and would probably be a tactical and operational blunder.

When you think about it, DO most chapters think of him as just a man?

I mean, they call him the God-Emperor of Mankind. That's not how you describe one man. Even a great man or a leader. That's a deity.

And really, even Chaos recognize him as a deity by calling him Corpse-God.

Now, this has only been the case since he's been on the Gold Throne, so maybe that was different BEFORE then, but currently, he is a God to humanity.

The original fluff for the Black Templar worshipped him as a god.

The CSM "Word Bearers" were fanatics setting up all manner of idols in his name until the emperor himself admonished them of spending too much time temple building / converting the flock and not enough conquering the universe as commanded. This was when they felt doubt and determined him a "false god".

Of some interest the Inquisition has a faction called the "Thorians" that believe the emperor could be resurrected into a human vessel.

 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
When you think about it, DO most chapters think of him as just a man?

I mean, they call him the God-Emperor of Mankind. That's not how you describe one man. Even a great man or a leader. That's a deity.

And really, even Chaos recognize him as a deity by calling him Corpse-God.

Now, this has only been the case since he's been on the Gold Throne, so maybe that was different BEFORE then, but currently, he is a God to humanity.

The Space Wolves definitely don't.
To quote Bjorn the Fell-Handed, ""God-Emperor? Calling him a god is why this mess started in the first place.""

While I am personally of the opinion that *most* Chapters venerate the God-Emperor as a deity, it would seem that I am in the minority of Space Marine fans in that thought.

 Psienesis wrote:

 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
When you think about it, DO most chapters think of him as just a man?

I mean, they call him the God-Emperor of Mankind. That's not how you describe one man. Even a great man or a leader. That's a deity.

And really, even Chaos recognize him as a deity by calling him Corpse-God.

Now, this has only been the case since he's been on the Gold Throne, so maybe that was different BEFORE then, but currently, he is a God to humanity.

The Space Wolves definitely don't.
To quote Bjorn the Fell-Handed, ""God-Emperor? Calling him a god is why this mess started in the first place.""

While I am personally of the opinion that *most* Chapters venerate the God-Emperor as a deity, it would seem that I am in the minority of Space Marine fans in that thought.

The SW have their own kooky thoughts about that though, with their weird legends and myths.

I think you are correct that most chapters do venerate him as such. In fact, the ones that don't are probably countable with two hands now.

 Daba wrote:
I think you are correct that most chapters do venerate him as such. In fact, the ones that don't are probably countable with two hands now.

I disagree, the SM chapter that worship the emperor as a god are definitely in a minority. Chapters that do so are looked down upon by other chapters. I remember reading that from the piece on the fire angels piece in IA, chapters that worship as a god are viewed as being too cosy with the Imperial Cult and that rankles with the independence that SM chapters have within the imperium.

The first Space Marines Chapters were founded centuries before the development of the imperial cult or the Adeptus Ministorum and with the lone exception of Black Templars, Space Marines have never acknowledged the doctrines or religious supremacy of the Ecclesiarchy. Space Marine Chaplains care nothing for the ravings of the Ecclesiarchy and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult in favor of their own ancient traditions. The first Space Marine Chapters were founded centuries before the development of the Imperial Cult and the dominion of the Adeptus Ministorum. Whereas the Adeptus Ministorum has gradually extended its influence over the many thousands of individual cults that once existed throughout the galaxy, it has never been able to influence the Space Marine Cults which remain as stubbornly individualist today as they ever were.

Source: Space Marine Codex: 6th Edition pg 81

 Psienesis wrote:
If you look at it from a logical perspective, the original Chapters, those that were once Legions, probably don't, as most of them have recounting the Heresy and Great Crusade, of the time when the Emperor walked amongst Mankind.

All of the Successor Chapters, though, down through the ones set up just last week, are drawing all of their recruits from the populations of worlds that already venerate the Emperor as a god. It does not make a lot of sense to take this bunch of people, whether they are barbaric Feral Worlders worshipping the "Sky Father" or hardy Frontier World folks who have venerated the God-Emperor in their little cathedrals on the prairie for the last 7,000 years, and then make them into Space Marines and say "oh, yeah, about that God-Emperor business? It ain't true...."

Doesn't make any sense, and would probably be a tactical and operational blunder.

You have to consider that Space Marines are recruited during adolescence. Children.

Children are not generally known for their piety, IMO.

The fire angels are also fanatical believers of the imperial creed and a quite recent founding. The fire hawks fought for the ecclesiarchy during the age of apostasy so they also appear to be quite religious, and their current state as the legion of the damned has not lessened this.

Indeed there are some variations between sources (as always in GW). I think the line regarding the BT in the 6E SM codex is slightly misleading, but regarding SM worshiping the emperor as a god i believe that they are a significant minority; with younger chapters having a higher preponderance to worship him as such. Yet not all later founding chapters would worship him as diety.

It's religious dogma nitpicking. The Ecclesiarchy worships, prays to, and seeks the blessing of their god, the Emperor. The Space Marines worship, pray to, and seek the blessing of "the greatest man ever", the Emperor. It's similar to how the medieval Church could have arguments over details such as whether Jesus was wholly man or wholly divine, or changed from man to divine and if so at what point in time. Regardless of this hairsplitting of definition, it didn't stop the Church from doing what falls under the classification of worship and religious practice. Similarly, the Space Marines practice religious worship in every aspect except outright calling the Emperor a god. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

They may call him a Man, but the way they treat him differs little from how the Ecclesiarchy does, except in terminology and specific ritual details. They pray to him, seek his blessings, think he is immortal and watches over them from a spiritual realm, and think they will join him in the afterlife.

The terminology differences may mean a great deal to them and to the Ecclesiarchy, but that just emulates so many religions in the real world, where hair-splitting has led to schisms and wars.

 uk_crow wrote:
Indeed there are some variations between sources (as always in GW). I think the line regarding the BT in the 6E SM codex is slightly misleading, but regarding SM worshiping the emperor as a god i believe that they are a significant minority; with younger chapters having a higher preponderance to worship him as such. Yet not all later founding chapters would worship him as diety.

Younger Chapters outnumber older chapters by about 80:1

The Marine Aesthetic is basically 'Warrior Monks' for the Emperor. Their behaviour puts him on a pedestal, and they do the same things the Ecclesiarch does as Iracundus said.

 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
I mean, they call him the God-Emperor of Mankind.

That's what the Imperium calls the Emperor, not the Astartes.

As for the 'Corpse-God', that's not recognition. It's mockery, that the Imperium worships a corpse on a throne.

The White Consuls, unusually amongst Ultramarine successors, explicitly worship the Emperor as a god. I believe there's info in the older Codex Space Marines (5th ed?) and possibly some info in Dark Creed.

Dantioch wrote:The fire angels are also fanatical believers of the imperial creed and a quite recent founding. The fire hawks fought for the ecclesiarchy during the age of apostasy so they also appear to be quite religious, and their current state as the legion of the damned has not lessened this.

Boom! Here they are! Thank you, I loved this Chapter's description, color scheme, and how devoted to the Imperial Creed they are.

Apologist wrote:The White Consuls, unusually amongst Ultramarine successors, explicitly worship the Emperor as a god. I believe there's info in the older Codex Space Marines (5th ed?) and possibly some info in Dark Creed.

Excellent, yet another for the list

It would be interesting to see how well their faith holds when the Astronomicon goes out.

It should be noted that the Imperial Creed also recognizes that the God-Emperor was once a man, the greatest to have ever lived, and then ascended to divinity.

You have to consider that Space Marines are recruited during adolescence. Children.

Children are not generally known for their piety, IMO.

Maybe not in general, but if you go amongst a populace where church attendance is the norm, then you will be hard-pressed to find an adult with the simple, steadfast faith in the divine that a child can have. They lack experience with the realities of life that will test their faith. Untempered it may be, but it can be most definitely present, and most definitely pure.

The Sisters of Battle fill their ranks from children, after all, and to call their faith into question is... a poor stance to take against the studio's publications.

Being inducted and indoctrinated into a group of warriors that explicitly (In most cases) do not foster a belief in the Emperor as a deity, and being inducted and indoctrinated into a group of warriors that foster belief in the Emperor's divinity way harder than almost anyone else is entirely different.

Not if the culture you're coming from already fosters a belief in the God-Emperor as a divinity. In such a case, it's simply carrying on the religious traditions you've known your entire life, and now that you are counted amongst the "Warriors of the Stars" (or whatever other name the Feral Worlders call the Astartes) and have been made "The Grandson of the God of the Stars and Skies" it's, again, simply carrying on the traditions of your culture.

Likewise with the Sisters, the girls coming into the Orders as Novices already have a deep-seated and abiding faith. The Sororitas just build upon that foundation... if you're some sort of wishy-washy agnostic or an atheist, you're not going to get into the Sisters at all.

 Psienesis wrote:
Not if the culture you're coming from already fosters a belief in the God-Emperor as a divinity. In such a case, it's simply carrying on the religious traditions you've known your entire life, and now that you are counted amongst the "Warriors of the Stars" (or whatever other name the Feral Worlders call the Astartes) and have been made "The Grandson of the God of the Stars and Skies" it's, again, simply carrying on the traditions of your culture.

Which most Space Marines don't actually advocate, making the comparison invalid.

Likewise with the Sisters, the girls coming into the Orders as Novices already have a deep-seated and abiding faith. The Sororitas just build upon that foundation... if you're some sort of wishy-washy agnostic or an atheist, you're not going to get into the Sisters at all.

Whereas with the Space Marines they really don't care if you consider the Emperor a god or not, and in some cases disdain that view.

In the First Founding Chapters, sure. In the Successor Chapters? Probably not.

It's not like they have Homeworlds in reserve, that they're keeping the Ecclesiarchy off a range of given worlds because they might decide to make them the Homeworlds of a new Space Marine Chapter two thousand years in the future. That doesn't make any sense.

So, for the Chapters who have been around from the Great Crusade, sure, that makes sense. For the Chapters that were created just last week? Their Homeworlds almost certainly already have an Ecclesiarchal presence of some kind, and have had one for the past several thousand years. Veneration of the God-Emperor is already ingrained into these people, and in the case of many of the more-recent Chapters, they're not getting First Founding Chapter veterans to "seed" the new Chapter.

We're also seeing a lot of new Chapters with *very* close ties to the High Lords of Terra, of whom the Ecclesiarch is one (or several, depending on your sources... in any event, influential). You think the High Lords, all of whom are members of the Imperial Cult, are going to have a bunch of heretics running around as Space Marines? Probably not.

So I am pretty sure evidence has already been posted showing that the Imperial Cult has never been able to spread among the Space Marine chapters, and that when a chapter that venerates the Emperor as a god does so, it is notable for a reason.

You're wrong, Psienesis.