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I was reading an article on 1D4 Chan earlier, and in the section labelled "GW: The Bully", someone has theorised that the reason why the Mycetic Spore, Doom of Malantai and Parasite of Mortrex were dropped from the 6th Edition Codex was a form of revenge against Chapterhouse Studios after their lawsuit. Considering that these three units were probably CH's most popular Tyranid kits, they're losing out on sales now that they're no longer legal units.

Now, I'm fully aware that 1D4 is more of a satire site, but I can't actually dismiss that concept when we consider how much of a dick GW has been in the past. While it's rumoured that these units are to be included in a supplement, is this possible that they've dropped these units as a "Feth you, we have the last laugh " to Chapterhouse?

It's obvious that they could have made them upgrades or kept them in some form but instead they wiped the from existence. Why? I have never seen a unit or model as commonly scratch built or represented by a 3rd party model as doom and the spore. It was their last laugh to everyone, not just Chapterhouse, they wanted to hurt the thing that the (internet) made the most of.

Cue end of raving unfounded conspiracy.

I'm loath to believe in conspiracy theories such as this, and I believe that cutting the Spore makes sense (purely from a business/production expense perspective!)… but it’s hard not to see GW doing this as a backhanded way of getting back at 3rd parties. They can’t very well get rid of the Tervigon now, but they appear to be quite happy to slap at CHS, even if they hit their customers with the follow-through.

This actually a pretty good theory. GW about all else, even beyond their greed, is mean-spirited and spiteful. If they only cared about selling models their business strategy would be a lot different.

Anyway cutting the Doom of Malantai and Mycetic Spores is truly hilarious, they had to have known they were some of the most popular units among actual gamers.

Funny thing is, if a Tyranid player wanted to use the Doom and Spore against me with 5th ed rules, or even homebrew rules I would say go for it. I don't have any problems with it TBH. I can guarantee that no game shop is gonna kick me out for that.

 Harriticus wrote:
This actually a pretty good theory. GW about all else, even beyond their greed, is mean-spirited and spiteful. If they only cared about selling models their business strategy would be a lot different.

I think this was business driven as well (albeit stupid and shortsighted).
GeeDubs grand Master:
"IT'S MAKING SOMEONE ELSE MONEY QUICK KILL IT!!!"

If I had to guess it would be that GW wanted to only have units in codices that have models so that no money goes to any perceived competition. However, they may have only had the ability (Or desire) to make a few new molds and thought the new big Tyranid thingie and the remodeled warriors would sell better than a big ugly egg thing. After all, their target demographic are the types who would rather buy cool shinies than what's actually good.

I have no problem believing that they did this in response to their losses in court.

I understand that some people have a negative opinion against GW, but I find it really hard to believe that any rational person could seriously give this theory credence.

1d4chan is a humor site, which makes it the perfect place for this theory, because it's a joke.

There's plenty wrong with GW. I don't think there's quite that much wrong.

Well of course that's why they did it. They really had no option. To continue to use those rules that other companies make models for could be argued in court that GW was ok with it. Furthermore they simply couldn't rename them and make models. They'd get sued most likely. I find it no coincidence that CH filed an appeal recently. Most likely GW legal saw it coming and recommended they whack the rules for the models in question. I wouldn't call it revenge as much as I'd call it C.Y.A.

 Spinner wrote:
There's plenty wrong with GW. I don't think there's quite that much wrong.

Anything's possible with GW in all honesty I think my theory is a tad far fetched as is 1D4chans but it certainly fits the rest of their mindset,

Yeah after the embargo on Australia, the attack on online stores and then closing down borders, then going bananas with legal stuff, I wouldn't give GW the benefit of the doubt when it comes to them being embittered selfish villainess corporate douchbags.

I really doubt it. Reason being is that the best way for GW to kill sales on 3rd party stuff is simply to make their own official version.

GW makes really good models, even their cruddy stuff is typically better than most 3rd party companies can produce, and people playing GW games want GW products, particularly good ones. The main reason 3rd party stuff sprung up as much as it did is because GW wasn't supplying those items they had created a demand for.

You'll notice that GW is largely going for complete releases now where all the options have official models if not in the initial release then by wave two. Lots of companies were making not-thunders wolves well ahead of GW released theirs and when GW got around to making an official model the demand for 3rd party ones dropped like a stone. Having made wolf models I have sales data that shows the exact moment the official models came out as my sales of wolf models went in the toilet.

Same goes for the Tervigon, CH had their kit out for quite a while before GW got the official model out and it was one of the items in the lawsuit. Had they wanted to remove all the lawsuit models we wouldn't have official thunderwolves or tervigons. GW also added lashwhips and boneswords to the new warrior sprues and guess what part of the 3rd party market also dried up?


There's always some demand for options just because people like their stuff to look different but the vast majority of people buying 3rd party stuff is because they are unable to get comparable options from GW itself. The 3rd party bits market would be pretty threadbare if GW still had it's bits program still in service especially if they could also offer options for parts in the plastic kits.

They've focused a huge amount of money on fighting 3rd party companies and crushing ebay/internet sales when all they have to do is make a few internal changes on how they make items and it would lower the demand for 3rd party items to the point that most of them wouldn't be able to remain open. But that would require some common sense and GW doesn't vest much stock in that nowdays.

This lends way too much credence to 4chan and Chapterhouse.

I don't see it as spite so much as a desire to protect their IP. Copyright stops being valuable when you don't own it in it's entirety.

That said, yes, Chapterhouse is the reason they did this.

 paulson games wrote:
I really doubt it. Reason being is that the best way for GW to kill sales on 3rd party stuff is simply to make their own official version.

GW makes really good models, even their cruddy stuff is typically better than most 3rd party companies can produce, and people playing GW games want GW products, particularly good ones. The main reason 3rd party stuff sprung up as much as it did is because GW wasn't supplying those items they had created a demand for.

You'll notice that GW is largely going for complete releases now where all the options have official models if not in the initial release then by wave two. Lots of companies were making not-thunders wolves well ahead of GW released theirs and when GW got around to making an official model the demand for 3rd party ones dropped like a stone. Having made wolf models I have sales data that shows the exact moment the official models came out as my sales of wolf models went in the toilet.

Same goes for the Tervigon, CH had their kit out for quite a while before GW got the official model out and it was one of the items in the lawsuit. Had they wanted to remove all the lawsuit models we wouldn't have official thunderwolves or tervigons. GW also added lashwhips and boneswords to the new warrior sprues and guess what part of the 3rd party market also dried up?


There's always some demand for options just because people like their stuff to look different but the vast majority of people buying 3rd party stuff is because they are unable to get comparable options from GW itself. The 3rd party bits market would be pretty threadbare if GW still had it's bits program still in service especially if they could also offer options for parts in the plastic kits.

They've focused a huge amount of money on fighting 3rd party companies and crushing ebay/internet sales when all they have to do is make a few internal changes on how they make items and it would lower the demand for 3rd party items to the point that most of them wouldn't be able to remain open. But that would require some common sense and GW doesn't vest much stock in that nowdays.

Thanks for writing the exact same reply I was going to make

 paulson games wrote:
I really doubt it. Reason being is that the best way for GW to kill sales on 3rd party stuff is simply to make their own official version.

GW makes really good models, even their cruddy stuff is typically better than most 3rd party companies can produce, and people playing GW games want GW products, particularly good ones. The main reason 3rd party stuff sprung up as much as it did is because GW wasn't supplying those items they had created a demand for.

You'll notice that GW is largely going for complete releases now where all the options have official models if not in the initial release then by wave two. Lots of companies were making not-thunders wolves well ahead of GW released theirs and when GW got around to making an official model the demand for 3rd party ones dropped like a stone. Having made wolf models I have sales data that shows the exact moment the official models came out as my sales of wolf models went in the toilet.

Same goes for the Tervigon, CH had their kit out for quite a while before GW got the official model out and it was one of the items in the lawsuit. Had they wanted to remove all the lawsuit models we wouldn't have official thunderwolves or tervigons. GW also added lashwhips and boneswords to the new warrior sprues and guess what part of the 3rd party market also dried up?


There's always some demand for options just because people like their stuff to look different but the vast majority of people buying 3rd party stuff is because they are unable to get comparable options from GW itself. The 3rd party bits market would be pretty threadbare if GW still had it's bits program still in service especially if they could also offer options for parts in the plastic kits.

They've focused a huge amount of money on fighting 3rd party companies and crushing ebay/internet sales when all they have to do is make a few internal changes on how they make items and it would lower the demand for 3rd party items to the point that most of them wouldn't be able to remain open. But that would require some common sense and GW doesn't vest much stock in that nowdays.

The problem with this is that on one hand you're assuming that GW makes sensible, rational business decisions, and then on the other pointing out how they don't. Given their past behavior, it sadly makes more sense to suppose that the models were removed from some sense of personal pique than any argument for balance or game-play or having minis for each codex entry.

I'm exalting the Baron's post purely because he used the word 'pique' and did so with alliteration.

He's not wrong either.

It would have been easy to retain the mechanic for spores without retaining the need for a model..

"Mycetic Spore................25pts
Launched from the Hive Fleet in orbit, Mycetic spores provide a means for the advanced elements of the invasion to sow discord and fear amongst opposing forces. Designed to protect their contents from the rigours of orbital insertion, the spore disintegrates on impact, leaving nothing but an unharmed and hungry creature, ready to feed.

The unit gains the Deep Strike USR"

But that took all of 5 minutes of my time, so would have been much too hard for GW.

Legal liability.

GW created the ideas for those models in print, but they never followed through to making the actual models. The 3rd parties, Puppets War, Mr. Dandy, Chapterhouse, Trollforged, and others all got there before GW and could, theoretically at least, sue GW for infringement if GW tried to make some of the models. Realistically, none of the 3rd parties has the resources to pursue a legal remedy.

Chapterhouse's pro-bono counsel could make a go of it, but they signed on to protect a little guy from a bully. Who knows if they want to go on the offensive? GW got burned badly by the Chapterhouse fiasco and isn't interested in taking chances in the near term. They kept the fluff for the parasite and doom in the new codex so we may see models someday.

Given how GW operates, that doesn't surprise me. I could see them doing that in the future just to try and "kill" any third party company that might make anything that other people would buy to use.

 Arschbombe wrote:
Legal liability.

If that were the case why is GW selling the Tervigon? CH had their Tervigon kit out well ahead of GW, but GW released their official version while the trial was ongoing. (and not doing well for them)

There is no reason they'd cancel the Mycetic Spore over liability concerns while at the same time making the Tervigon available.


Likely it has more to do with the number of sku units they wanted for the line. IGW has adopted a planned trend for each new release is X number of kits plus one giant kit. If that X number of budgeted slots doesn't cover all the holes in the line then it's simpler to remove those holes then to justify to the penny pincher accountants why they could do the same X number of sku's for marines, tau, elder, but need X+Y to cover tyranids. The accountants work on a formula of projected returns which is completely detached from the needs of army lists or player wants. They say each release will be budgeted x amount of development time and money and additional kits beyond that become a potential loss liability, meanwhile the players are all like wtf where is the stuff we need to fill those holes.

The people calling the shots in GW have no connection to the needs of the game, most of them probably have no clue about what it is they sell. For all they care the company could be selling soap cause they simply look at hard numbers and calculations based on previous sales trends. Welcome to the world of publicly traded companies.


.

 paulson games wrote:
The people calling the shots in GW have no connection to the needs of the game, most of them probably have no clue about what it is they sell. For all they care the company could be selling soap cause they simply look at hard numbers and calculations based on previous sales trends. Welcome to the world of publicly traded companies.

As true as that might be, the people calling the shots know everything about the CHS case that's been draining money away for years now, and a very simple "Whatever they're making take it out of the game so they can't make any more money off of our IP" is an easy thing to imagine. That doesn't require detailed knowledge or even interest in what's in the game - it just requires the need to want to stop loosing money to another company.

 paulson games wrote:

 Arschbombe wrote:
Legal liability.

If that were the case why is GW selling the Tervigon? CH had their Tervigon kit out well ahead of GW, but GW released their official version while the trial was ongoing. (and not doing well for them)

There is no reason they'd cancel the Mycetic Spore over liability concerns while at the same time making the Tervigon available..

The kits they got out before the decision might not be as legally vulnerable as ones produced after the trial when their copyright to them was officially stripped.

Or in other words, it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.

To the OP: Yes.

They have to run a buisness. Yes I'd be ok with finding out they did this.

Why isn't this a poll?

Jefffar wrote:
...when their copyright to them was officially stripped. .

This didn't happen. Chapterhouse sell an alien pod, that isn't called a Myceptic Spore. The court case simply ruled that this was ok to do, and that it was ok to say that this kit was compatible with the 40K Tyranid range. It didn't remove the copyright on GW's Mycetic Spore model... because GW don't have a Mycetic Spore model.

There would be nothing stopping GW from releasing an actual Mycetic Sport model, particularly if it winds up looking different to the CHS one, which it would.

Yes, but the whole 'do unto others before they can do unto you' philosophy of litigation tells them that a C&D from Chapterhouse or a similar pod model maker is an inevitability if they make the model now.

When your litigation plans are based entirely on the idea that the other guys are out to steal from you, you assume they will operate the same way.

I have never seen plans by any of the usual suspects to make a Parasite model, not to speak of release one.
Only things are conversions on ebay and one unnamed model on shapeways.
So deleting the Parasite can't be attributed to outer influences.
BTW small manufacturers like Chapterhouse or Puppet's War have better things to do than bully a big corporation legally.