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Currently in the midst of making my GK/Tau list i ran into a conundrum as to whether i should add V-trackers to my ion c. riptide or my hymp broadsides. Which one would be better for dealing with fliers/ FMC?

I would say neither. EWO is better on broadsides as it allows you to kill things before they get a chance to do anything. The fact that missilesides weapons are already TL means that they are suffecient AA without skyfire and interceptor adds so much more versitility.

Riptides should really not be used for AA unless it's an ECPA riptide with the burst cannon.

Riptides? No.

HYMP Broadsides? Hell yes. On a unit of 3, one should have target lock, one should have velocity tracker, and what the last one gets is up to you.

dont be stingy and bother with the EWO - yeah, the HWMP is twin-linked, but a TL-HYMP that skyfires at BS3 is far more dangerous to a flyer than one that fires at BS1

I wouldn't say just a default no on the Riptides.
A HBC 'tide with VT is solid anti air, and quite often a unit of broadsides with VT firing into a flyer is going to be massive overkill. ECPA Riptide can handle most if not all of your AA duties.

For his AA, my buddy uses an ECPA/VT Riptide, a Skyray, and 3 Misslesides. If the riptide/sky ray can't handle it, then two skyfire markerlights from the Skyray can bump the Broadsides up back up to BS3 when firing at flyers. A very flexible loadout in my opinion.

Yes but giving the Riptide a EWO or VT means you cannot give it the Stim Injector, and that upgrade is what you'll need more than anything else to keep it afloat.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yes but giving the Riptide a EWO or VT means you cannot give it the Stim Injector, and that upgrade is what you'll need more than anything else to keep it afloat.

Riptides can take two support systems, I almost always see them run with Stim Injector + VT (for Bursttide + Buff Commander build - which just ruins a unit per turn every turn) or Stim Injector + EWO for the Iontide - (for dropping pie plates on sneaky troop units that try to hide in reserve).

 Sir Arun wrote:
Yes but giving the Riptide a EWO or VT means you cannot give it the Stim Injector, and that upgrade is what you'll need more than anything else to keep it afloat.

Stim injectors on Riptides are debatable, but definitley not an auto take

 FirePainter wrote:
I would say neither. EWO is better on broadsides as it allows you to kill things before they get a chance to do anything. The fact that missilesides weapons are already TL means that they are suffecient AA without skyfire and interceptor adds so much more versitility.

Riptides should really not be used for AA unless it's an ECPA riptide with the burst cannon.

+1

EWO should be your "default" if wondering what to put on something. And for Anti Air actually work best on broadsides. With VTs you can only fire them in your turn anyway, and at that point a skyray is probably better if you are looking for Anti Air. With EWO you can choose to fire them as anti air when things come on OR other targets like drop pods.. or, whatever. But 12 str 7 and 12 str 5 all twin linked shots you will get hits.

I would say, when it comes to dealing with Flyers, that the Velocity Tracker is good for the Iontide, as 3 S7 Shots hitting on 4s can damage a flyer more than when they hit on 6s, while Early Warning Overrides are better placed on HYMP Broadsides as their weapons are twin-linked anyways, and they usually have a multitude of shots and can thus take a flyer down (maybe even with their TL-SMS) before it can even shoot.


Of course, I understand how a Riptide getting to shoot its Overcharged Ion Accelerator pie plate on a non-flyer unit that deep strikes or outflanks when having purchased EWO makes sense, but still.

Yes those three shots can do damage but they will not have stopped the flyer from doing its damage. The iontide is just not reliable AA. Not enough shots to really do it, even snapfiring a 3-man squad of missilesides will still get 3.67 hits, not including the SMS. while a skyfiring iontide only gets 1.5.

As I said before the only riptide that should be considered for reliable AA is a burst cannon with the ECPA. That can put out the shots and damage needed to down a flyer.

Thanks for all the comments. I think i'll avoid the V-tracker now, since it's 20 points and go with EWO on the riptide/broadsides.

Skyray for anti-air.

Riptide & Broadsides take EWO.

That's what I do.

EWO on a Riptide is risky without prescience buff. It's better on Broadsides who already are twin linked. I prefer VT on a ECPA riptide. Very reliable against most flyers. To combat StormRavens it will need to be backed up by a Skyray

EWO on a HRR Broadside is a no-no, right?

Here's a question re: Skyray and AA. If you choose to fire your missiles at a flyer, do you have to decide prior to rolling the first die how many you want to fire? Or can I fire them one at a time until the flyer is destroyed?

You have to choose before firing.

What's the best recommended practice? Fire 1 per HP? Fire 1 per HP + 1? Fire them all? What do other people suggest?

math it out based on what your'e firing at with the skyray.
i.e. shooting at a Vendetta -

str 8 hit v armor 12 = .5hp per hit
if you need to take off 3hp you need to do 6 str8 hits, so shoot all 6 seeker missiles
that assumes no cover/evade/jink save but you get the idea

best practice is situational

I dont bother with broadsides anymore, so it's an easy choice for me. I have my two trusty Riptides, and they do the work the broadsides used to do. I can free points for other things. Which means yes, putting Early Warning and Velocity on them both.

Can't you take dual missile pod crisis suits with velocity trackers?

Jancoran wrote:I dont bother with broadsides anymore, so it's an easy choice for me. I have my two trusty Riptides, and they do the work the broadsides used to do. I can free points for other things. Which means yes, putting Early Warning and Velocity on them both.

And what do you take instead. missilesides are point for point one of the most cost efficient killers. (expensive model-wise but undeniably effective). Unless that riptide has a burst cannon and the ECPA its not really that effective as AA, just doesn't have the damage output

Sir Arun wrote:Can't you take dual missile pod crisis suits with velocity trackers?

Yes you can and its not a bad choice with 6 hits on average a full squad can down a flyer/turn. I just prefer to use my crisis suits for other things but that set up works fine.

 FirePainter wrote:

Jancoran wrote:I dont bother with broadsides anymore, so it's an easy choice for me. I have my two trusty Riptides, and they do the work the broadsides used to do. I can free points for other things. Which means yes, putting Early Warning and Velocity on them both.

And what do you take instead. missilesides are point for point one of the most cost efficient killers. (expensive model-wise but undeniably effective). Unless that riptide has a burst cannon and the ECPA its not really that effective as AA, just doesn't have the damage output

Sir Arun wrote:Can't you take dual missile pod crisis suits with velocity trackers?

Yes you can and its not a bad choice with 6 hits on average a full squad can down a flyer/turn. I just prefer to use my crisis suits for other things but that set up works fine.

The only downside I see to running VTs on Crisis Suits is that they are a costly unit that is much squishier than Riptides or Broadsides

...and yet unlike Broadsides they can JSJ and thus remain completely out of LoS. An affordable tactic, given the MP's long range.

Can't you take dual missile pod crisis suits with velocity trackers?

Why the obsession with Velocity Trackers at all?

If you want them on anything, take them on one HBC Riptide. Broadsides with a Buffmander effectively obliterate most flyers based on volume of shots. Most Tau lists are rocking 2-3 Skyrays, and those also tag flyers. Once they pop off missiles, they can use skyfiring markerlights to help out Bsides and Riptides without skyfire.

Competitive Tau lists don't bother with this expensive upgrade for a reason.

Why is everyone so scared of Flyers anyway? Except Hellturkey spam I cant think of any ones that can actually ruin your day.

 FirePainter wrote:

Jancoran wrote:I dont bother with broadsides anymore, so it's an easy choice for me. I have my two trusty Riptides, and they do the work the broadsides used to do. I can free points for other things. Which means yes, putting Early Warning and Velocity on them both.

And what do you take instead. missilesides are point for point one of the most cost efficient killers. (expensive model-wise but undeniably effective). Unless that riptide has a burst cannon and the ECPA its not really that effective as AA, just doesn't have the damage output

Sir Arun wrote:Can't you take dual missile pod crisis suits with velocity trackers?

Yes you can and its not a bad choice with 6 hits on average a full squad can down a flyer/turn. I just prefer to use my crisis suits for other things but that set up works fine.

I use nothing to replace the firepower of broadsides. In my old list I used rwo singular broadsides. Its all I needed to win. Now Riptides replaced that role. Same role, just different unit. Broadsides are not necessary for my srrategy.

 Sir Arun wrote:
...and yet unlike Broadsides they can JSJ and thus remain completely out of LoS. An affordable tactic, given the MP's long range.

well yes they can, but misslesides mirror the range, have higher damage output, rock a 2+, and generally have ablative wounds that also shoot more missiles so thier mobility doesn't really matter,

Still gonna maintain that a Riptide with HBC, ECPA, and VT is the best AA for Tau, if not in the game.

And like the previous poster stated, why are Tau scared of flyers again? Yeah beats me,

There's no "Fear" involved in investing a whopping 40 points into anti-air.

A Scouring mission will teach you part of why you need to give a nod to anti-air though.

or playing a 'cron bakery in any objective mission, or a Flying Circus in Big Guns.

Just sayin' Tau have the least to worry about when in comes to AA.

It's 40 points. Come now.