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So Be'Lakor has some very interesting fluff. The one thing I wonder is: Who was he as a mortal? His fluff says he has been here since the beginning of time, but he is a Daemon Prince, not a Greater Daemon, so he was mortal at some point. Was he a random xenos race, or something else? I'd like to hear everybody's theories.

If I recall correctly, he was a human in Warhammer Fantasy and no one's sure what he was before ascension in 40k (although considering that the two share the same warp, I'd actually speculate that the reason no one in 40k knows what he was is because he's a human from Fantasy. Kinda hard to track down someone's origins when they're from what's possibly another dimension or alternate universe or something)

Not really touched upon in 40k as far as I know. Unless the whf version of his fluff is the same?

I know nothing about Fantasy but that makes sense. I would like them to be the same universe but I doubt the designers want that to happen.

That begs another question: Are all Daemon Princes former humans? I don't see why xenos can't ascend to daemonhood.

TiamatRoar wrote:
If I recall correctly, he was a human in Warhammer Fantasy and no one's sure what he was before ascension in 40k (although considering that the two share the same warp, I'd actually speculate that the reason no one in 40k knows what he was is because he's a human from Fantasy. Kinda hard to track down someone's origins when they're from what's possibly another dimension or alternate universe or something)

They don't share the same Warp, as evidenced by the difference in the birth of Slaanesh.

The only thing we know is that he was the first mortal to ascend to Daemonhood. For the most part, even in-universe, his history is unknown and those who have tried to find information about it have gone mad trying.

If he's one of the first mortals my money is Eldar.

He's a human from the Fantasy Universe, the one who brought Chaos' attention there to begin with.

Iron_Captain wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
If I recall correctly, he was a human in Warhammer Fantasy and no one's sure what he was before ascension in 40k (although considering that the two share the same warp, I'd actually speculate that the reason no one in 40k knows what he was is because he's a human from Fantasy. Kinda hard to track down someone's origins when they're from what's possibly another dimension or alternate universe or something)

They don't share the same Warp, as evidenced by the difference in the birth of Slaanesh.

But if they're two separate universes, 40k COULD take place BEFORE WHFB. Of course, this would frag up the origin of Be'Lakor in WHFB, but who the Warp cares.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
If I recall correctly, he was a human in Warhammer Fantasy and no one's sure what he was before ascension in 40k (although considering that the two share the same warp, I'd actually speculate that the reason no one in 40k knows what he was is because he's a human from Fantasy. Kinda hard to track down someone's origins when they're from what's possibly another dimension or alternate universe or something)

They don't share the same Warp, as evidenced by the difference in the birth of Slaanesh.

Time and place, cause and effect, have no meaning in the warp. Slaanesh has always existed and always ever was, with and without his birth from the Eldar. Therefore it is wholly possible for the Slaanesh of Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k to be the same despite 40k coming about from the Eldar.

...at any rate, it's CONFIRMED they're the same warp. At least if BL is canon. Draigo ends up in the Warhammer Fantasy universe via the warp in one of his stories.

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

 Platuan4th wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

It's canon for a given definition of canon. Despite what Aaron says, it's VERY clear that every novel, codex, and munitorium book as well as everything else at least tries to maintain SOME consistency. There's a retcon here and there and some slight inconsistencies that can't be helped when something is managed by so many different authors, but those are actually fewer and farer between than most people claim.

Quite frankly, I find bringing up "there is no canon" in a forum called "40k background" to be a rather asinine thing to do. If we were to assume "there is no canon" in its most extreme case, then this forum shouldn't even exist. Therefore, bringing up the subject here is just pointless.

 Platuan4th wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

This.

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

This.

Why are you even in a forum called "40k background" if there is no canon? This place is not for you.

He could be an Old One.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

This.

Why are you even in a forum called "40k background" if there is no canon? This place is not for you.

Well, first off, I'm in the 40k Background forum because I enjoy the 40k background and I can go on whatever section of this site I care to go about. Furthermore, you are not in any position to tell me what is and what is not a place for me. Now, rude commentary aside, canon doesn't exist in 40k in the sense that the very nature of the universe is so grandiose that trying to pinpoint 100% specificity on any topic is impossible. It's like a historian trying to pinpoint 40,000 years of galactic history.

 Darth Bob wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
At least if BL is canon.

There's no such thing as canon in 40K.

This.

Why are you even in a forum called "40k background" if there is no canon? This place is not for you.

Well, first off, I'm in the 40k Background forum because I enjoy the 40k background and I can go on whatever section of this site I care to go about. Furthermore, you are not in any position to tell me what is and what is not a place for me. Now, rude commentary aside, canon doesn't exist in 40k in the sense that the very nature of the universe is so grandiose that trying to pinpoint 100% specificity on any topic is impossible. It's like a historian trying to pinpoint 40,000 years of galactic history.

Canon doesn't have to be pinpointed 100%. You're just spewing semantic nonsense just for the sake of trolling and contributing nothing to the thread topic when you say "there is no canon".

TiamatRoar wrote:


Canon doesn't have to be pinpointed 100%. You're just spewing semantic nonsense just for the sake of trolling and contributing nothing to the thread topic when you say "there is no canon".

Well, actually, canon by definition is genuine and authentic information on a specific topic, theme, or setting. Which means that its origins are pinpointed and definitive. As for the second part of your comment, the only person I see trolling in this thread is you; considering you're the one spewing vitriol and accusatory remarks.

But I'm going to stop feeding you so this thread doesn't go too far off-topic.

 Darth Bob wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:


Canon doesn't have to be pinpointed 100%. You're just spewing semantic nonsense just for the sake of trolling and contributing nothing to the thread topic when you say "there is no canon".

Well, actually, canon by definition is genuine and authentic information on a specific topic, theme, or setting. Which means that its origins are pinpointed and definitive. As for the second part of your comment, the only person I see trolling in this thread is you; considering you're the one spewing vitriol and accusatory remarks.

But I'm going to stop feeding you so this thread doesn't go too far off-topic.

Actually, it's definitions include "a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works" and "a criterion or standard of judgment", neither of which has to be exact. The vast majority of Warhammer 40k material written by Black Library or the studio or Forge World tends to be "accepted" by the other bodies. It is only on rare situations where various novels or codexes or whatever else completely disregards and rejects others (at least, for a universe written by so many different authors)

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
He could be an Old One.

Anyways, back to the topic, this is what I was thinking as well. However, I'm not that well versed on what the Old Ones actually are so I didn't know if this was possible.

What the Old Ones actually were is not elaborated on at all.

We don't even know anything about their appearance.

All we know is that they are old, very psychically powerful, liked to make new species, very advanced, and incredibly dead.

 herpguy wrote:
I know nothing about Fantasy but that makes sense. I would like them to be the same universe but I doubt the designers want that to happen.

That begs another question: Are all Daemon Princes former humans? I don't see why xenos can't ascend to daemonhood.

There's a couple of rumors that GW is thinking about setting up rules and missions where WHFB and 40k armies fight against each other this summer.

It sounds stupid, I know but then GW doesn't make sound decisions these days.

The speculation I heard was due to WHFB not doing so well in sales and their trying to give it a boost.

I think the most likely scenario is they'll use the ending of Knight of Titan to make a Draigo dataslate for WHFB to make him an auto-include in every army to sell tons of Draigo models.


Sarcasm aside, I've heard vague things about that tie-in too. With the way things are going it's sad to admit but I can see it happening.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
I know nothing about Fantasy but that makes sense. I would like them to be the same universe but I doubt the designers want that to happen.

That begs another question: Are all Daemon Princes former humans? I don't see why xenos can't ascend to daemonhood.

There's a couple of rumors that GW is thinking about setting up rules and missions where WHFB and 40k armies fight against each other this summer.

It sounds stupid, I know but then GW doesn't make sound decisions these days.

The speculation I heard was due to WHFB not doing so well in sales and their trying to give it a boost.

How are you going to balance that without going "lolgame mechanics"?

A squad of Khorne Berserker Marines would probably chop their way through most armies in FB.

If 40k and Fanasy get mixed, I will be pretty disappointed. Theyre very different, not necessarily in game play but in fluff as well. And like Kain said, Im pretty sure most 40k units would feth up a WHFB army. We're talking Bolter, Chainsword and Power Armour against some steel swords, arrows and light armour. Not exactly a fair fight.
As for Belakor hes an interesting one. He could be and Eldar (although belakor doesnt sound like an eldar name), or potentially and Old One, a Necrontyr, or another race entirely

Hitler.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Hitler.

Lol

On a more serious note, I'm leaning towards Eldar or an Old One. If there was more fluff for him in 40k and that fluff indicated a great and ancient hatred for the Necrons, I'd be willing to bet my first born that Be'lakor is an Old One. Or a shadow of one.

They did whf vs 40k back in 2nd from what I can remember. But then both systems shared the same stat lines and basic rules (ie save modifiers etc)

I thought it was Be'lakor or maybe it was another Daemon Prince that committed so many atrocities and murdered so many that he was elevated to one of the most esteemed positions as the first human daemon prince. Pretty much alluding to it being Hitler.

So part of my post was serious and the other for the lulz.

That's what I've been inclined to think too. Either an Eldar or an Old One. I think a BL book with him in it is in order to at least give us a hint.
The only defining trait we see is that he unequivocally hates anybody who receives any blessing from ANY chaos god. He pretends to be Abaddon's friend but secretly goes around orchestrating events to kill his Warlords. He also likes to raise up civilizations to worship him and then gets rid of him when they crumble.

I think that would be badass if he were an Eldar DP, but I think he may be something even older. I just have no idea if an Old One can become a DP.