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Obviously it was pretty beastly before but if unbound rumours are accurate you can now have an entire army of them.
At 1850 you can have 9 all kitted out and they aren't limited in what they can kill.
I can see 3 Farsight heavy bursts with SMS and 6 Ion fusions destroying pretty much everything.
Yes tarpitting them is an option but they'll stomp their way through stuff eventually.

I don't really think I can think of another model that can be so utilised in unbound.

Massed Mawlocs laugh at your massed riptides!

Btw that would be the dumbest matchup ever to watch, like some sort of demented game of "Whack a Mawloc."

There are prettier models, so no, it isn't the best.

I think he means "unit".

 gardeth wrote:
Massed Mawlocs laugh at your massed riptides!

Btw that would be the dumbest matchup ever to watch, like some sort of demented game of "Whack a Mawloc."

So funny. Lol. Exhalt

Boniface wrote:

 gardeth wrote:
Massed Mawlocs laugh at your massed riptides!

Btw that would be the dumbest matchup ever to watch, like some sort of demented game of "Whack a Mawloc."

So funny. Lol. Exhalt

I'm not in it for the exhalts, I'm just here to help forge the narrative.

they are good, but without things buffing them they are not super crazy. (No auto twin linking, no monster/tank hunter, no ignores cover)

The riptide became the single most powerful model (the Heldrake a close second maybe) when the Tau codex came out.

Too bad unbound doesn't make it any less ugly a model, although I imagine it'd be easy to build a counter-list if you knew you were facing nothing but riptides.

I've been thinking Eldar, with 5 Wraith Knights.....?

Boniface wrote:
Obviously it was pretty beastly before but if unbound rumours are accurate you can now have an entire army of them.
At 1850 you can have 9 all kitted out and they aren't limited in what they can kill.
I can see 3 Farsight heavy bursts with SMS and 6 Ion fusions destroying pretty much everything.
Yes tarpitting them is an option but they'll stomp their way through stuff eventually.

I don't really think I can think of another model that can be so utilised in unbound.

My 10 squads of scouting grav bikes will say some words to your 9riptides

The Riptide was massively broken just after it came out. Spamming it won't make it even more broken than it already is.

Riptides are very powerful, but not the most powerful.

The riptide has excellent mobility and durability, but it's damage output isn't particularly high for the price point. A heldrake can kill far more per turn, but is significantly easier to hurt and destroy, and the Wraithknight is nigh-unkillable by most armies, while also being quite mobile and having better damage output.

All these, however, fail to realize the single most powerful model in 40k; a Herald with the Grimoire of True names. ~70 points to make any unit virtually indestructible. With 7th around the corner, any psyker herald with the book can give any daemon unit a 2+ invlunerable, and as an ally can give the Heldrake a 3+ invlunerable, which may very well make that the most powerful unit out there.

Remember, a Riptide doesn't clear the board of units, it is most useful at absorbing hits and engaging enemy elite units at range while avoiding melee contact with non-vehicles. (The fact it can handidly kill any walker is a travesty, but that's another matter entirely). It can't really perform crowd control, relies on other, squishy units to get ignores cover, has awful BS, WS and I, and has the chance to wound itself in order to get a good invulnerable. I used one for a while before selling it (I don't like too powerful units), and it's very good, but has very real, exploitable weaknesses. If any army can fight terminators, it can kill a riptide.

A turkey can threaten everything on the board that doesn't have a 2+ armour or 3+ invlunerable at almost any time, ignoring cover by default and dealing a high volume of wounds with every shot, never worrying about BS or any of its own stats. It can not be engaging in combat, pinned down, negated with psychic abilities, and relies on lucky shots or weapons which can only hurt it on a 5+ to damage it, while it can regenerate lost hullpoints and can be buffed to a 3+ invuln itself quite easily. It simply has no weaknesses, and can single handidly destroy armies. Only an army with a counter-air force can fight one, and can still be killed with vector strikes while the turkey continues to torch ground units. The only ground based AA I know of which can really hurt it is the Marine Hunter, one of the only AP2 skyfire weapons with good chances to pen, but has the dubious distinction of being a part of the army the turkey is best suited to kill.

And it's much uglier than the Riptide.

I think the perception of the 'tide as the "best unit ever" comes from the fact it's in an otherwise powerful army. Same with the Wraithknight. They're very good units, in very good armies. The turkey is better, but it's in an otherwise terrible army, it's a crutch which keeps Chaos alive in most cases, whereas the other two "top tier models" simply build upon already very good armies.

Good luck finding a game if you bring 9 Riptides.

 Greenizbest wrote:
Good luck finding a game if you bring 9 Riptides.

Good luck having a wallet if you buy 9 riptides.

 Selym wrote:

 Greenizbest wrote:
Good luck finding a game if you bring 9 Riptides.

Good luck having a wallet if you buy 9 riptides.

And keeping your marriage intact

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Riptides are very powerful, but not the most powerful.

The riptide has excellent mobility and durability, but it's damage output isn't particularly high for the price point. A heldrake can kill far more per turn, but is significantly easier to hurt and destroy, and the Wraithknight is nigh-unkillable by most armies, while also being quite mobile and having better damage output.

All these, however, fail to realize the single most powerful model in 40k; a Herald with the Grimoire of True names. ~70 points to make any unit virtually indestructible. With 7th around the corner, any psyker herald with the book can give any daemon unit a 2+ invlunerable, and as an ally can give the Heldrake a 3+ invlunerable, which may very well make that the most powerful unit out there.

1. The Herald gets 0 protection from The Good Book.

2. You pretty much require Kairos to ensure The Good Book doesn't backfire and take -1 from your save.
That's a hefty 'tax' for a model that is rather susceptible to being focused on... He's only T5 and 1 less wound that a regular LoC, and if he crashes and gets caught in combat he's absolutely toast!

3. Even a Tzherald w/3 rolls on Divination or the new Malefic isn't guaranteed to land Forwarning/Cursed Earth, which is required to help further boost the invuln.
Slaany & Nurgle Heralds only get 2 rolls, making it less likely to land Cursed Earth, while few players are likely to pass up the ability to take Telepathy or Biomancy especially on Princes.

4. Psychic powers can now be countered much more effectively. Good luck getting your re-rollable 2++ unit now that an opponent can simply throw every single one of their DtW dice at stopping your +invuln power.
As long as there's no such thing as IF, even throwing 6-8+ dice into casting an invuln boosting power is no guarantee of getting it... not to mention the ability to reliably nuke your own psyker when 6+ dicing spells.


7th is going to actually slightly tone down the abuses of the Grimoire stacking with Psychic abilities, just as it'll also hurt the Eldar's re-rollable 2++ build.

The Book is still a very, very good item, but it is about to get weaker in the grand scheme of things, as it's major abuses just took a big kick in the pants.

Riptide on its own is not that scary. Its just tough to kill without the proper loadouts shooting at it, or bad luck.

A riptide without markerlights or even other shooty units supporting it is not an issue at all. They have a chance, no matter the gun, to flop and do next to nothing that turn (HBC bad without Nova charge, IA has Gets Hot! when pi plating and it almost always does). They need something to lay down some numbers on non-TEQ infantry and also deal with AV13/14.

i suspect any army below 2k pts bringing more than 5 would be suffering in the support department to be any threat. Either no ML support, or no cannon-fodder unit support.

That, and quite frankly ANY of the "I bring nothing but X Units!!" lists would be hard to find a game with. Whether its a threat or not, it would be unfun and extremely annoying to face.

 Orkimedezz wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Obviously it was pretty beastly before but if unbound rumours are accurate you can now have an entire army of them.
At 1850 you can have 9 all kitted out and they aren't limited in what they can kill.
I can see 3 Farsight heavy bursts with SMS and 6 Ion fusions destroying pretty much everything.
Yes tarpitting them is an option but they'll stomp their way through stuff eventually.

I don't really think I can think of another model that can be so utilised in unbound.

My 10 squads of scouting grav bikes will say some words to your 9riptides

see I have white scars too, same situation. But basically the game comes down to who gets first turn. Once you scout your committed. If he gets a steal, your probably gonna lose a bit more than half your firepower.

I'd honestly agree to play against someone throwing down an army of nothing but 6-9 Riptides.

They only become 100% broken when you add on the ridiculous supports of Markerlights, Buffmanders and/or alled Divination psykers, supporting fire, etc...

The riptide on it's own is really just a super-tough and fast Medusa with 2 less strength.

But when it gets to ignore cover and have pinpoint accuracy it becomes the ultimate point click die unit, wiping out infantry with impunity. Ratlings die almost easily as Paladins at this point and the most you can do about it is spread out.

I suppose you could make a light with a lot of markerlights and riptides, sure you have fewer Riptides, but it will quickly thin out infantry while the Fusion blaster and smash stove in vehicles.

At this point the best option is a simple one:

HIVE TYRANT RUSH!

How fast can riptides kill geq? Can they kill 329 geq wounds in time before they get swamped with dangerous attacks?
Here is a bound list:

Command squad

Priest (in guard blob)
Priest (in guard blob)
Priest (in guard blob)

Commissar (in conscript blob)
Commissar (in conscript blob)
Commissar (in conscript blob)

Platoon
PCS
5 x IS (blobbed)
5 power axes
50 conscripts

Platoon
PCS
5 x IS (blobbed)
5 power axes
50 conscripts

Platoon
PCS
5 x IS (blobbed)
5 power axes
45 conscripts

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (in conscript blob)
Rad granades, hammerhand, force sword

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (in conscript blob)
Rad granades, hammerhand, force sword

1850pts

Conscripts are wounding the riptides on a 5+ with their massive amount of attacks.
Guard are all wounding the riptides on a 6+ but get rerolls to hit and wound and there are 16 to 20 of the attacks ignoring the riptides armour.
If squads get too cut down by enemy fire the priests and inquisitors can move to another unit to buff. 323 models will cover the board enough to neuter the riptides movement.

Also not scared of a helldrake spam as they are killing what - 5 bodies each a turn with their firey arse of doom. One question though - is it thought flyers may also be able to score in 7th? That sounds so daft that I imagine GW would throw it in there.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw just saying what I would bring (if I had the models - could you imagine buying, glueing and painting that lot???) If I knew id be facing just riptides. Its not so hot against mech!

Your points spent on power axes could be spend on krak grenades for your IG blob squads and meltabombs for the sergeants. 1 S8 AP1 attack is better than 3-4 S4 AP2 attacks, when against a monster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although, if you're gonna deal in rad grenades, could just take a rad grenade launcher from ravenwing allies and a demolisher cannon. Or spam biomancy for enfeeble and do the same thing. I doubt the demolishers would last long, though.

Riptides fall under mass AP2 shooting (Star Cannons, Wraithcannons, Heavy Wraithcannons, Bright Lance and Pulse Laser). I would literally take Star cannons on my serpents and in guardian squads and fill up those serpents with wraithguard if I had to face an all riptide army.

Even if an all-Riptide list came my way at a tournament, if I were playing Dark Eldar I'd just laugh.

My Drop Pod Salamanders might be a little less mirthful, but still pretty optimistic.

Daemons will equally laugh, especially a Bommstick LoC who rolls up Precog. (assuming it stays & remains unchanged of course...)

Last time out that b@$tard rolled up the +1W & IWnD plus FnP 4+... and Precognition + Misfortune.
Suffice it say, he pretty much solo'ed my buddy's entire army with little effort!

I apologised afterwards.

Why have 9 when you can have apparently 5 and the rest of your army be buff commanders.

I don't recall any MC able to deny cover, so grab as many as you could.

Well, the flying ones can get a better angle, but don't let them fly too high

Hollismason wrote:
Why have 9 when you can have apparently 5 and the rest of your army be buff commanders.

Something tells me the "Unbound" rules has nothing to do with the "One per army" rule that special wargear has for many armies.

I imagine the OP isn't actually a competition player. It's highly doubtful any tournament would allow completely unbound lists. Especially considering the rumoured rules present unbound as an option, agreed upon by both players. It also falls under the "don't be a douche" unwritten rule.

Aside from that, Riptide are not exactly scary by themselves. It's the buff commander and farseers that make them good, which has conveniently been left out of this "army list".

Boniface wrote:

Did the WraithKnight just become the single most powerful model?

Obviously it was pretty beastly before but if unbound rumours are accurate you can now have an entire army of them.
At 1850 you can have 7 and they aren't limited in what they can kill.
Yes tarpitting them is an option but they'll stomp their way through stuff eventually.

I don't really think I can think of another model that can be so utilised in unbound.

I fixed that for you.

Riptides suck without support. You NEED markerlights or a buffcommander to make them not overcosted. Without those, they don't do anything that people remember them for, and that is the s8 ap2 cover ignoring plate. It doesn't cover ignore without the support.

Wraithknights, however, can instant-kill anything from 36" away with their 2x s10ap2 BS4 guns. Plus they're harder to kill than riptides (T8 W6 vs T6 W5). The army of all wraithknights moves faster and is far better in melee.