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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/22 21:30:13
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Veteran ORC
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Re-Purposed General Discussion Thread
Now, I may be wrong, but wasn't the whole point of Lord of the Rings was that it put its characters in a fantasy setting without being over the top magical?
Hopefully I'm wrong, but this seems like it's kind of in the same boat as DmC; a good/decent enough game that tried to latch itself on an existing franchise and failed miserably for it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/02 16:07:36
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/23 00:09:03
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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The game looks fantastic and I'll looking forward to it, but as a dedicated LOTR fan who reads (and listens) to all the books, loves the films, and plays The LOTR/Hobbit SBG I'm disappointed with how it appears to be eviscerating the Lore.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/23 03:15:37
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Looks cool though...
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
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"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
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"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/23 03:30:39
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Major
Middle Earth
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As a longtime fan of Lord of the Rings (aka fan before the movies came out) I think this is exactly what the franchise needs out of a video game. Going away form the established story and taking Tolkien's rich and developed world and making its own story out of it. While yes, it does follow a lot of modern low fantasy trends I think they can still make it a uniquely Middle Earth story with a more gritty and realistic plot. Really looking forward to this.
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We're watching you... scum. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 08:13:27
Subject: Re:Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It looks like a great game, but I'm tired of people basically crapping all over LotR in order to make money. FotR was a good film, but the quality of Jackson's trilogy dropped off quickly after he achieved financial success and the Hobbit trilogy has been a complete perversion of Tolkien's works. While it is certainly not surprising, it is a bit depressing that people are willingly to slap the LotR logo onto merchandise in order to boost sales.
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The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/27 10:29:05
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Fixture of Dakka
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Err, yeah, this shouldn't be a LOTR game...
Psychically controlling and army of orcs by grabbing their faces in order to lead them against Mount Doom...
Seriously, wtf?!
It doesn't just mess with the lore, it messes with the entire theme of LOTR.
War in The North managed to do an RPG set in Middle Earth quite happily
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/28 09:38:09
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Not watched the trailer, but from what I've read about this, it does seem to be a generic fantasy game with the Lotr name stuck on for extra cash. Magic in lotr has always been fairly passive, not resurrecting people or mind controlling (with the exception of the ring). I can't imagine I'll be buying this game, to be honest.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/28 09:47:45
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Paradigm wrote:Not watched the trailer, but from what I've read about this, it does seem to be a generic fantasy game with the Lotr name stuck on for extra cash. Magic in lotr has always been fairly passive, not resurrecting people or mind controlling (with the exception of the ring). I can't imagine I'll be buying this game, to be honest.
Passive.
Tolkien still writes about how Gandalf uses spells to conjure fire, create light, read Frodo's "mind and memory" after his fall at Rivendell's Ford, add "a few touches" of his own to Elrond's calling of the river through causing some of the waves to take the form of great white horses with shining white riders and boulders to roll and grind, open the doors to Moria, "bless" Sam's pony Bill with "words of guard and guiding", hold the door in the Chamber of Mazarbul (and how the Balrog tries to open the door with its own counterspell) and break the Bridge of Khazad-dûm.
Likewise, in the stories of The Silmarillion Finrod used wizardry to change the shape of Lúthien, Beren, and himself in order to infiltrate Angband, and Lúthien uses magic to lull Carcharoth, Melkor and everyone in Melkor's fortress into a deep slumber.
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Finrod sings spells to hide his identity from Sauron and to do battle with him, Melian uses magic to create a barrier around her land of Doriath which is for a time seemingly impenetrable to all (though the power of the Silmaril was able to pierce it), and Sauron uses wizardry to create a phantom of Eilinel to deceive Gorlim and then kills him. In The Hobbit, Beorn is described as "a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard"
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_in_Tolkien_Mythology
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/28 10:03:30
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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ZebioLizard2 wrote: Paradigm wrote:Not watched the trailer, but from what I've read about this, it does seem to be a generic fantasy game with the Lotr name stuck on for extra cash. Magic in lotr has always been fairly passive, not resurrecting people or mind controlling (with the exception of the ring). I can't imagine I'll be buying this game, to be honest.
Passive.
Tolkien still writes about how Gandalf uses spells to conjure fire, create light, read Frodo's "mind and memory" after his fall at Rivendell's Ford, add "a few touches" of his own to Elrond's calling of the river through causing some of the waves to take the form of great white horses with shining white riders and boulders to roll and grind, open the doors to Moria, "bless" Sam's pony Bill with "words of guard and guiding", hold the door in the Chamber of Mazarbul (and how the Balrog tries to open the door with its own counterspell) and break the Bridge of Khazad-dûm.
Likewise, in the stories of The Silmarillion Finrod used wizardry to change the shape of Lúthien, Beren, and himself in order to infiltrate Angband, and Lúthien uses magic to lull Carcharoth, Melkor and everyone in Melkor's fortress into a deep slumber.
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Finrod sings spells to hide his identity from Sauron and to do battle with him, Melian uses magic to create a barrier around her land of Doriath which is for a time seemingly impenetrable to all (though the power of the Silmaril was able to pierce it), and Sauron uses wizardry to create a phantom of Eilinel to deceive Gorlim and then kills him. In The Hobbit, Beorn is described as "a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard"
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_in_Tolkien_Mythology
OK, maybe passive as the wrong word, but what I meant was that it was only really noticeable in a small handful of individuals. Gandalf and the Istari, Elrond and Galadriel, and obviously Sauron and the Nazgul all show magical power, but most of it is very understated. The only real aggressive use of magic is the Black breath, Gandalf's duels with the Balrog and The Witch King , and the summoning of the flood. The rest of it is simply hints and remarks that, In many cases, are just as much intuition or luck as magic.
I'll leave out The Silmarillion as it's set in an age where the power of the elves (who are innately magic) is much more prevalent.
The point is, there has been a generally trend in lotr games o give magic to the 'little people' to satisfy the call for mage characters. It started in Third Age where Idrial was an Arwen substitute and Hadhod could summoin volcanoes. By Conquest half the battlefield has flaming swords or shoots lightning, and in War in the North, the majority of the bosses can summon shields or throw fireballs. I rate all of those as great games, but it does show the increasing trend towards more magic in lotr games, which seems to have reached a peak with this one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/08 21:49:15
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Anyone else pre-ordered this game?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/09 19:01:49
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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[MOD]
Solahma
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For folks who are thinking of pre-ordering this ~ You get the "Dark Ranger" skin from every pre-order venue. Additionally, you get a venue-dependent bonus: - Amazon: Deadly Archer Rune (ranged damage bonus to captains) - Best Buy: Flame of Anor Rune (fire damage on combos) -GameStop: Captain of the Witch skin + Hidden Blade Rune (stealth damage bonus to captains) - Steam: Orc Slayer Rune (increase special attack damage on captains) - Walmart: Rising Storm Rune (unlimited combat executions) You can also get the Orc Hunter Rune by registering a WBID account before the game launches. It has something to do with stealth attacks and terror. And if you sign into the free Palantir App using your WBID account, you can get the Gravewalker Rune. This causes enemies to flee after you take down their captain.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/09 19:13:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/17 15:52:51
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Veteran ORC
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So bad news bears; apparently there are NO review copies being sent out of this game. Be careful guys.
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I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/09/17 16:31:47
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor Trailer
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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No PC review code, so buyer beware when it comes to the PC version. It could be a terribly lazy port.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 16:22:35
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I have been playing it for the last two nights and it is a pile of fun. Never cared much for the Assassin's Creed games but I am a fan of the Arkham series and this takes everything I love about it except for the Batman IP and reloads it into the LotR IP, which I also love, and adds more. The Nemesis System is hugely fun and really lends a dynamic impression to the map. I have really enjoyed fething with Uruk politics. Plus you never know what the hell might happen. Unless you behead an enemy, there's always the chance he'll come back (seemingly actively tracking you down for revenge) and often enough at an inopportune moment. Last night, I was cruising around Mordor looking for trouble when I spotted a juicy Uruk captain to whom I had already sent a death threat. When you make a death threat against a captain, they become more powerful and get a gang of bodyguards. I didn't have intl on this captain's strengths and weaknesses just yet but I decided to swoop down anyhow. The area was pretty deserted so it seemed perfect. Everything was going peachy until an old enemy of mine, who I had fought at least three times already, showed up out of nowhere. This twerp really had it out for me. Okay, so two captains and their mobs. No sweat. Then out of nowhere a third captain and his boys show up as well! So now things are getting a bit tense. At that point, the captain I had originally confronted broke and fled. A fleeing captain can be a pain, especially if he's a fast runner or immune to ranged attacks (can't pin him) -- this is because if he gets away not only does he gain power for surviving an encounter with you but he also transfers to a different part of the map. So I bound after him and that's where I screwed up. One of the other captains was an archer and put an arrow in my back. So not only did all three survive but the one who killed me got promoted! You can bet he was Numero Uno on my hit list thereafter, except I wanted to send him a death threat to really beef him up. This is because you get more Power Points for defeating more powerful captains and you need those points to access higher tiers of abilities. Sending death threats also increases the chance of the threatened captain dropping an epic rune, a powerful upgrade for your weapons. Keep in mind, all of this is effectively side quest stuff. Automatically Appended Next Post: EmilCrane wrote:I think this is exactly what the franchise needs out of a video game. Going away form the established story and taking Tolkien's rich and developed world and making its own story out of it.
Could not agree more. It feels authentically Middle-Earth without being yet another game about Aragorn or Gandalf.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/02 16:27:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 16:58:36
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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So it's more comparable to the Arkham series than what you'd find in a traditional fantasy adventure game (especialy the other LotR adventure games)?
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:01:26
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Yes, fighting is almost exactly like Arkham Asylum/City -- except a tad more forgiving vis-a-vis blocking. And of course very bloody, with awesome finishing moves. Some of the stuff is so brutal, it can scare off the Uruks who witness it.
Gameplay is also very flexible. If you want to sneak around picking guys off, that is viable and fun. If you want to dive into a sea of Uruks and go to town, that is viable and fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:03:52
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Sounds good! I'm starting to think I might want to add this game to my xmas list then-- just for the gameplay alone.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/02 17:04:02
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:14:28
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Fixture of Dakka
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Drat... I kinda wanted the game to be rubbish. It's sounding like I was way too overly harsh now.
Currently, I'm a bit annoyed with EA/Bioware. They have decided, for reasons only known to themselves, to not release a physical copy of the Deluxe Edition of Dragon Age 3 PC in the UK.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:34:00
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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The protagonist is the main weak link so far, being yet another leading man in the "avenge my wife and child" parade. It's so tiresome. And it really is not sufficient to explain Talion's intense level of violence. Although that may be part of the story. Celebrimbor acts as Talion's conscience from time to time, reminding him not to become like the Dark Lord's servants while fighting against them. But one wonders if it isn't too late. Uruk life is meaningless to Talion. This fits well with Tolkien, to a point. I am reminded of Gandalf's words to Frodo concerning the pity of Bilbo. Gollum was a Hobbit once. But orcs were never anything but orcs. Even so, elves and good folk generally do not make a practice of cruelty unless they are corrupt. Talion and Celebrimbor have decided that their terror campaign amounts to "what must be done," which is a menacing reference to the effect the Ring has on Boromir. Even if the Ring is not directly present in the story, its corrupting influence -- the essence of Sauron -- is working its way back into the very soil of Mordor as the Dark Lord rebuilds his kingdom. This toxic evil has thoroughly irradiated Talion. Tom Shippey gives the etymology of "wraith" as twisted (as in modern English "wreath") and offered that Tolkien's view of evil is that it twists you. You could certainly call what Talion does twisted. This is especially true since the Uruk's are more than anonymous goons in this story (although far from redeemable in any sense). I imagine that Talion and Celebrimbor will eventually realize that they are the Boromirs of this story rather than the Faramirs. Here are some similar thoughts from someone who doesn't know Tolkien's themes: http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/1/6881161/middle-earth-shadow-of-mordor-torture-terrorism
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/02 17:40:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:40:03
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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So basically they tried to make him in to batman, but more grimdark.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:15:17
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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No, he's no Batman. Batman is a detective and he's endlessly resourceful. Talion is a much more simple man. He also killed a man, which is what gets him assigned to the Black Gate in the first place.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:22:12
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Sounds good, I may have to revise my earlier opinion. Unfortunately, it's not out on 360 until the tail end of November, so one for the Christmas list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:25:12
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Manchu wrote:No, he's no Batman. Batman is a detective and he's endlessly resourceful. Talion is a much more simple man. He also killed a man, which is what gets him assigned to the Black Gate in the first place.
So a nineties anti-hero.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:31:06
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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That is what I initially figured. But 90s anti-heroes are at the end of the day heroes (that is, more than protagonists; they are depicted as "good guys," e.g. Spawn or upcoming Dracula movie with Luke Evans). Talion really does not seem like a hero. He's a prodigious orc-killer, to be sure, but that's doesn't make him a hero. Quite the reverse, to be honest, and I think that may be the point. No heroes in Mordor, you might say.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/02 18:31:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:45:56
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Oh sure, nineties anti-heroes are depicted as heroes, but they rarely were depicted as such successfully.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 19:00:35
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I guess it depends on who is asking. I tend to agree with you that such characters are not actually heroic. The distinction I am trying to call out here is that I don't think Talion is meant to be a hero. He's not really a villain, either. He's just a not-very-good-and-increasingly-bad man surrounded by Uruks and he's trying to fight a really bad man.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/02 19:04:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 19:42:20
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Fair enough.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 19:51:08
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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[MOD]
Solahma
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He's also not very interesting IMO. It doesn't help that he's "standing next to" Celebrimbor, one of the most fascinating obscure characters in LotR.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 20:07:28
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Man. My computer is just scraping below the minimum specs for this game and I'm really regretting not buying something a little better. I'm a huge LOTR fan.
I don't really mind if they take some liberties with the lore though, weirdly, as long as it improves the experience. There's plenty of incongruous, poorly explained or inconsistent stuff in Tolkien's work to allow various interpretations, that's one of the reasons I like it so much.
Manchu: I've always (I mean, ever since I was a kid) found the treatment of the Orcs in LOTR troubling. When you find out that they are essentially a "created" race, that don't have any choice but to be twisted, that the Valar literally put the sun in the sky to screw with them, and that they don't even particularly want to serve the Dark Lord, but have little choice...
Orc dialogue in the books are always my favourite bits, and I was always uncomfortable with the wholesale slaughter of them by the heroes. So what you are saying makes me excited for this game!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 20:45:22
Subject: Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor
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Executing Exarch
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Da Boss wrote:Man. My computer is just scraping below the minimum specs for this game and I'm really regretting not buying something a little better. I'm a huge LOTR fan.
I don't really mind if they take some liberties with the lore though, weirdly, as long as it improves the experience. There's plenty of incongruous, poorly explained or inconsistent stuff in Tolkien's work to allow various interpretations, that's one of the reasons I like it so much.
Manchu: I've always (I mean, ever since I was a kid) found the treatment of the Orcs in LOTR troubling. When you find out that they are essentially a "created" race, that don't have any choice but to be twisted, that the Valar literally put the sun in the sky to screw with them, and that they don't even particularly want to serve the Dark Lord, but have little choice...
Orc dialogue in the books are always my favourite bits, and I was always uncomfortable with the wholesale slaughter of them by the heroes. So what you are saying makes me excited for this game!
Keep in mind that if the heroes weren't around, the orcs would be the ones engaging in the wholesale slaughter of orcs (which happens on at least two occasions in the books). And while the orcs in Mordor are directly under the control of Sauron, it's unknown how much influence he exerted over the ones in places like the Misty Mountains and the Mines of Moria.
If there's any evidence to suggest that the orcs would have mellowed out if it weren't for the influence of the Dark Master of the moment, I'm unaware of it.
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