Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just saw what Infinity was today at my FLGS and realized what everyone says when they can buy 6 armies for the price of their one warhammer 40k army.

The size of an army in Infinity is about the same amount of models as a kill team game of 40k... Also there are no big models. They are all little people (or at least that I saw). Needless to say I wasn't impressed and anyone who says "I can but 6 infinity armies for the same price" well of course you can because the games are kill team sized.

That's massively oversimplified and does a great injustice to the options and depth present in Infinity.

There are also big models (TAGs) although they're not Baneblade/Knight/Whatever sized (more in the same league as a Tau battlesuit.)

But I'm still slightly puzzled as to what your point is? You seem to be arguing the fact that a player can play a full sized, tournament level game which is frequently praised for the quality of it's miniatures and the depth and relative balance of it's ruleset for demonstrably less than a below entry level game of 40K as a bad thing?

Written as a non-Infinity playing 40K gamer, before my impartiality is drawn into question.

If you like small battles then Infinity might be for you but I like bigger games and Infinity's rules are written for small scale battles and to get the same size battle in Infinity as you can in Warhammer 40k it would cost just as much if not more then 40k as the starter is $50 for 5-6 infantry sized models.

People are misleading when comparing a game they like more to a game that everyone else plays? I'm shocked.

And infinity is also 28mm, it's just not 28mm heroic, so the limb-width, hands, and head are more correctly proportioned for realism, rather than exaggerated to show detail.

In any case, yeah, what you noticed is a pretty common way of skewing things. It's never comparing buying a few deathwing off ebay and a DV rulebook to the same number of minis and rules, it always seems to be comparing six models to a 40k apocalypse army...

A function of a difference in expectation about what a full-sized army is, really. It makes 40k's ability to play huge games look like a liability instead of an advantage.

 Xerics wrote:
If you like small battles then Infinity might be for you but I like bigger games and Infinity's rules are written for small scale battles and to get the same size battle in Infinity as you can in Warhammer 40k it would cost just as much if not more then 40k as the starter is $50 for 5-6 infantry sized models.

In other news, don't buy a Mustang if you need to transport large quantities of tools or drive off road.

Infinity isn't a battle game, it's a skirmish game, which is why every time you move a model, you do so individually and the rules allow for a huge amount more options for what you can do each time you do so.

It isn't about comparing the games, so much as comparing accessibility, which is a huge problem for 40K (perhaps less so with the advent of 7th, time will tell)

Whatever others may argue, there's never been an occasion where you can get two troops, an HQ, codex and rulebook for 40K for the cost of one Infinity starter, which, with free rules, is the only investment needed for Infinity.

They do have big models. At the last games day a few weeks ago this guy had a huge dragon worm model thing. Dwarfed all the GW monsters in the painting competition. Was beautify painted but was very big.

But the nature, aesthetic and well the game itself is nothing like 40k. As many have said its really different. But its the kind of different that seems to attract people lately so who knows, could be worth the try.

 Swastakowey wrote:
They do have big models. At the last games day a few weeks ago this guy had a huge dragon worm model thing. Dwarfed all the GW monsters in the painting competition. Was beautify painted but was very big.

But the nature, aesthetic and well the game itself is nothing like 40k. As many have said its really different. But its the kind of different that seems to attract people lately so who knows, could be worth the try.

You're thinking of Warmachine/Hordes I think.

Infinity categorically doesn't have anything bigger than a Daemon Prince, at least not yet.

I do see how people who have grown up on a diet of GW games would struggle with Infinity though. There's so much more to think about, and mistakes can be costly, and quick, that when I played a few games, I found a few small games to be more mentally draining than a 3000pt game of 40K.

I'd happily take up Infinity, but I only have so many opportunities to play, and I already played 40K and X Wing, and I have Mierce's Darklands in the offing too, so it just didn't make sense to commit to another system.

One day though.

Accessibility is a huge problem for GW right now. Infinity is a pretty clear example of a game that you can get into for super cheap and people seem to enjoy themselves. I don't play it myself, but some friends do and they like it. And they're having no trouble getting people in with a pitch like "one box, a blister every now and again and the rules? free online or get a book. whatever works."

If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

While you may not be impressed, I am. The current changes to 40k and the impact they have on Tyranids has made me less than excited to find my first game of 40k. Infinity though, I love the look of the models, the way the game is smaller, and the interesting rules.

Once things are more structured, I'll be picking up some Combined and a few TAGs to paint up and display.

frozenwastes wrote:If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

You can play a draigowing with as few as 3 models. You can play eldar with as few as 7. You can play a deathwing with 11, same as orks, and tons of CSM options.

Welcome to the brave new world of model inflation...

 Carnikang wrote:
While you may not be impressed, I am. The current changes to 40k and the impact they have on Tyranids has made me less than excited to find my first game of 40k. Infinity though, I love the look of the models, the way the game is smaller, and the interesting rules.

Once things are more structured, I'll be picking up some Combined and a few TAGs to paint up and display.

Don't look at the 7th Ed leaks then, not a great time to be a 'Nid player unfortunately.

Sorry for off-topic-ness.

I would not compare Infinity to WH40K in any event - I would be much more likely to compare it to Necromunda.

But the people that are arguing that Infinity is more affordable than Warhammer 40K do have a very basic point - the amount of money that you need to spend, just to play the game as it is intended, is much lower for Infinity.

That is pretty much all that the argument is about.

Yes, a team in Infinity is smaller than a single unit of Orks - but that team is all that you need to play the game. For the Orks... you will need to buy at least one more unit of Orks and a Command unit.

The rules for Infinity are better written, and they are available for free from the publisher - which chops another $75 MSRP off of the cost, and another $50 for the codex. (Necromunda used to be available as a free download from GW - but they killed that when they 'upgraded' their website.)

And, in my opinion, the miniatures for Infinity just look better.

But I still prefer Necromunda - over both Infinity and WH40K.... (It is the campaign system,the experience system and the flexibility of how you recruit and equip your gang that tilts the table in favor of Necromunda.)

The Auld Grump

 cincydooley wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

Thirded. I'm just not... seeing the point? The OP could have come to the same conclusion typing 'infinity battle report' into Google.

There is plenty of info about Infinity in the Corvus Belli forum here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/59.page. Lots of threads for beginners.

It is a skirmish sized game, so at its largest 15-20 models per side, and that is a really bloated horde in a high point game. Mainly 10-15 models. It does have large models, called TAGs. Think Landmates, more or less.

It is quite different from what GW games players are accustomed to. It is very tactical. There is no netlisting. Some may like the change of pace. As noted above, rules are a free download, but also get the army lists and the scenarios and ITS scenarios for a complete picture. You could always proxy a few 40k minis to play the game, just to give it a spin, before committing to anything. Or even download the quick starter rules here http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/Infinity-QuickStartRules-V1.pdf and give it a go. No reason to play only one game, especially if the second game is affordable...

My sig reveals my bias here

 frozenwastes wrote:
Accessibility is a huge problem for GW right now. Infinity is a pretty clear example of a game that you can get into for super cheap and people seem to enjoy themselves. I don't play it myself, but some friends do and they like it. And they're having no trouble getting people in with a pitch like "one box, a blister every now and again and the rules? free online or get a book. whatever works."

If anything the low model count of infinity should help the OP realize just how much 40k's model count has been artificially inflated to get as much money out of him as possible. You can have a great, deep gaming experience with far, far less of a cash squeeze.

My 1500 point army has 13 models (19 if you count the gunners for the three Vaul's Wrath Support weapons)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

Thirded. I'm just not... seeing the point? The OP could have come to the same conclusion typing 'infinity battle report' into Google.

LOL i am ragging on all those people who say they can "Just sell my warhammer army and get into affinity cause it's so much better and i can buy 6 armies for the price of one warhammer army" because they never tell you how big an army in Infinity actually is. Really an Infinity "army" is an Infinity team. and really the price per model is exactly the same in most cases. $50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

 Xerics wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

Thirded. I'm just not... seeing the point? The OP could have come to the same conclusion typing 'infinity battle report' into Google.

LOL i am ragging on all those people who say they can "Just sell my warhammer army and get into affinity cause it's so much better and i can buy 6 armies for the price of one warhammer army" because they never tell you how big an army in Infinity actually is. Really an Infinity "army" is an Infinity team.

I still fail to see why this is a problem. Infinity is a skirmish game. You can find this out by simply googling 'Infinity the Game'. It never, even in the game description in the rulebook or on the website, alludes to it being bigger than skirmish scale.

On top of that - while you personally prefer large battle games, others don't, or just have no preference. For some, playing a good skirmish game is better than playing a bad mass battle game.

 Xerics wrote:
and really the price per model is exactly the same in most cases. $50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

This is a valid complaint. Per model, Infinity is more expensive than 40k. However, it becomes less valid when you consider two things - army size and game balance.

10 Infinity models costs about twice what you'd pay for a box of 10 40k models. The difference is, that's it. You have your 300pt army. With 40k, you've got a few hundred dollars more to spend (sometimes more - without my Forgeworld stuff, my 1500pt Tyranid army cost me about $1000au). Add to that the balance of the game - there's very few, some would argue no, models that are not worth using. You can impluse buy a few good looking models, work them into your list, and it's suddenly completely different, and there's very little chance you bought models that just won't work in the list.

And finally, outside of models, all you ever need to buy for Infinity is 5-6 D20's and a tape measure. All rules (aside from the campaign system), army lists, weapon lists, troop profiles, counters, templates, etc are available legitimately for free. With 40k, you've got, depending on your country, a hundred to a couple of hundred dollars of rule books, codices and supplements to buy to get the rules and army lists.

So while, per model, Infinity is more expensive, it's far, far cheaper when you consider actually playing the game.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

Thirded. I'm just not... seeing the point? The OP could have come to the same conclusion typing 'infinity battle report' into Google.

LOL i am ragging on all those people who say they can "Just sell my warhammer army and get into affinity cause it's so much better and i can buy 6 armies for the price of one warhammer army" because they never tell you how big an army in Infinity actually is. Really an Infinity "army" is an Infinity team.

I still fail to see why this is a problem. Infinity is a skirmish game. You can find this out by simply googling 'Infinity the Game'. It never, even in the game description in the rulebook or on the website, alludes to it being bigger than skirmish scale.

On top of that - while you personally prefer large battle games, others don't, or just have no preference. For some, playing a good skirmish game is better than playing a bad mass battle game.

 Xerics wrote:
and really the price per model is exactly the same in most cases. $50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

This is a valid complaint. Per model, Infinity is more expensive than 40k. However, it becomes less valid when you consider two things - army size and game balance.

10 Infinity models costs about twice what you'd pay for a box of 10 40k models. The difference is, that's it. You have your 300pt army. With 40k, you've got a few hundred dollars more to spend (sometimes more - without my Forgeworld stuff, my 1500pt Tyranid army cost me about $1000au). Add to that the balance of the game - there's very few, some would argue no, models that are not worth using. You can impluse buy a few good looking models, work them into your list, and it's suddenly completely different, and there's very little chance you bought models that just won't work in the list.

And finally, outside of models, all you ever need to buy for Infinity is 5-6 D20's and a tape measure. All rules (aside from the campaign system), army lists, weapon lists, troop profiles, counters, templates, etc are available legitimately for free. With 40k, you've got, depending on your country, a hundred to a couple of hundred dollars of rule books, codices and supplements to buy to get the rules and army lists.

So while, per model, Infinity is more expensive, it's far, far cheaper when you consider actually playing the game.

Its 300 points now. I think in a few years when more official tournaments pop up it will creep up to 500 points per side and as more larger models come out over the years creep up another 250 points and so on and so forth and then the game becomes grossly more expensive then warhammer 40k.

 Xerics wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
What exactly is the point of this thread?

OP is shocked and angered upon finding skirmish games use less models than company scale battle games?

Yeah. I was sorta thinking the same....

Thirded. I'm just not... seeing the point? The OP could have come to the same conclusion typing 'infinity battle report' into Google.

LOL i am ragging on all those people who say they can "Just sell my warhammer army and get into affinity cause it's so much better and i can buy 6 armies for the price of one warhammer army" because they never tell you how big an army in Infinity actually is. Really an Infinity "army" is an Infinity team.

I still fail to see why this is a problem. Infinity is a skirmish game. You can find this out by simply googling 'Infinity the Game'. It never, even in the game description in the rulebook or on the website, alludes to it being bigger than skirmish scale.

On top of that - while you personally prefer large battle games, others don't, or just have no preference. For some, playing a good skirmish game is better than playing a bad mass battle game.

 Xerics wrote:
and really the price per model is exactly the same in most cases. $50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

This is a valid complaint. Per model, Infinity is more expensive than 40k. However, it becomes less valid when you consider two things - army size and game balance.

10 Infinity models costs about twice what you'd pay for a box of 10 40k models. The difference is, that's it. You have your 300pt army. With 40k, you've got a few hundred dollars more to spend (sometimes more - without my Forgeworld stuff, my 1500pt Tyranid army cost me about $1000au). Add to that the balance of the game - there's very few, some would argue no, models that are not worth using. You can impluse buy a few good looking models, work them into your list, and it's suddenly completely different, and there's very little chance you bought models that just won't work in the list.

And finally, outside of models, all you ever need to buy for Infinity is 5-6 D20's and a tape measure. All rules (aside from the campaign system), army lists, weapon lists, troop profiles, counters, templates, etc are available legitimately for free. With 40k, you've got, depending on your country, a hundred to a couple of hundred dollars of rule books, codices and supplements to buy to get the rules and army lists.

So while, per model, Infinity is more expensive, it's far, far cheaper when you consider actually playing the game.

Its 300 points now. I think in a few years when more official tournaments pop up it will creep up to 500 points per side and as more larger models come out over the years creep up another 250 points and so on and so forth and then the game becomes grossly more expensive then warhammer 40k.

It very well might. The tournament system added 400pt scenarios this year, which was met with rather mixed reactions. Some people liked being able to break out the heavy infantry linked teams that they've always wanted, others didn't like the additional size. It remains to be seen if it stays as an official scenario points level next season.

Recarding bigger models, Corvus Belli have flat out stated no, the game is not moving beyond being a skirmish game. They have, however, brought Antenocitis Workshop on board as a partner to make resin vehicles for the game. While they (and Antenociti) have stated they're for terrain or special scenarios only, who knows what the future will hold.

However, that has no bearing on the game right now. it's a skirmish game, and has never been implied to be anything other than a skirmish game. You didn't need to wait to see it at your FLGS to see this. Simply googling the game would have revealed this. You didn't need to make a thread 'ragging' on people who move to the system either just because you suddenly discovered the model count. it's just a pointless thread.

Thread of 2014 award for this.... I don't know what else to say really..!

 Xerics wrote:

LOL i am ragging on all those people who say they can "Just sell my warhammer army and get into affinity cause it's so much better and i can buy 6 armies for the price of one warhammer army" because they never tell you how big an army in Infinity actually is. Really an Infinity "army" is an Infinity team. and really the price per model is exactly the same in most cases. $50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

You seem to be missing the point that not everyone wants to play bloated 40K sized games, or that you can have more tactical depth with 10 mini's in Infinity (or many other skirmish games) than you can with 50+ in 40K. Yes on a per model basis Infinity is more expensive, but you'd never play Infinity with 40K sized forces (because there's too much depth, you'd be there forever), and you'd never play 40K with 10 standard infantry (because there's no depth to it).

Once you get over the figure count differences, you should be able to appreciate that with Infinity, you can get all you need to get started with a couple of unit options for less than the 40K BRB. That's a starter set, a couple of blisters and a handful of D20's.

I went in to my FLGS to pick up the Dwarf army book, but it was delayed, so I bought the Infinity rules instead and it's pretty good value. Even more when you consider that the actual rules on their own are completely free from the Corvus Beli website.

An "Army" in 40K could be only five Knight Titan models for a total cost of £425. It is unplayable without the codex for another £25.

I'm not sure how many Infinity models you can buy for £450.

 Xerics wrote:
$50 for 5 models is the same price as 5 terminators so i don't see exactly how its supposed to be cheaper. Get 10 Tactical marines for less then 5 infinity models.

Really, you don't see how it's supposed to be cheaper?

With your 5 infinity models, you can go download all the rules you need for free and play a fully involved game at a points level fully intended as normal sized by the designers (albeit at the smaller end of the scale).

With your 10 tactical marines, you then have to go buy an hq, a codex and a Rulebook before you can play a game. And that game wouldn't exactly be being played as 40k was intended. Your 1500pt army may only consist of 13 models, but they didn't cost you a total of $100 as 12 infinity miniatures would cost you, did they? The point being that there is no argument for access to "normal" sized 40k games being comparable in cost to access to "normal" sized infinity games.

In terms of the games themselves? Comparing platoon (or company) sized wargames to squad sized skirmish games is comparing apples and oranges. I appreciate that the comparison may have been impressed upon you by others, but it is a pointless comparison.

And it's a pointless thread. I'm not sure I understand why your thought process that day wasn't... "Oh, this is infinity? It's a skirmish game? That must be why I've heard said that you can buy 5 or 6 fully playable forces for the price of one 40k army. Well, that explains that. A skirmish game. It's not for me because I prefer BIG games and BIG models, but each to their own. And those chaps do look like they're having fun. Good on 'em."

I find the need to point out just how small of a model count you can make a 1500 point army to be indicative of the major difference. I salute everyone who had the foresight to build a low model count army and avoids putting your opponent through waiting while you move 70-100 miniatures.

How does this thread exist...

My cat isn't a dog. I for one am outraged.

This is exactly like that girl who complained why sushi is raw and why can't they serve cooked sushi.

It's also worth noting that in a game of Infinity, each model is much more important than a single model in 40k, where most of them serve as little more than wound counters who take up space on a board, each model in infinity represents a variety of diverse combat options.

Yes, you can build very low model count armies for 40k, but these tend to be very rare and extremely bad. Similarly, GW has been consistently moving their games in a direction that encourages the use of more and more models (or more big expensive models) on the table.

On the other hand, not only does Infinity's ruleset limit the scope of battles, but the fluff also places harsh restrictions on the size of any given sortie in-universe.

Kilkrazy wrote:I'm not sure how many Infinity models you can buy for £450.

I'm just starting in Infinity, I'll keep a log and let you know!

I bought a load of Infinity a few years ago when Corvus Belli did the special promotion with Beasts of War. I can't remember how much it all cost me however, looking at the website now, a pack like Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2013/miniatures/jurisdictional-command-of-corregidor/

has got six figures for €37 which is about £5 per figure so you could get 90 Infinity figures for the cost of the Knight Titans army.

"Character" figures are more expensive, though, so probably you might get about 75 figures altogether, say 60 ordinary figures and 15 specials.