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7th edition is very similar to 6th, aside from the big changes everyone already knows about. But, in my first short read-through, I've noticed a few small changes that I almost missed:

1. Line of Sight is now drawn from any part of the shooting model's body. Wraithknights are now allowed to shoot by RAW

2. Vehicles are now always WS1 regardless of whether it moved, unless it is a Walker, Chariot or is immobilised.

3. Crew Shaken, Stunned, Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised results only affect passengers of a transport if they fail a Ld test. If failed, they can only fire Snap Shots in their next shooting phase.

Still reading through the book. What are some of the little changes that you have picked up?

 Cheexsta wrote:
7th edition is very similar to 6th, aside from the big changes everyone already knows about. But, in my first short read-through, I've noticed a few small changes that I almost missed:

1. Line of Sight is now drawn from any part of the shooting model's body. Wraithknights are now allowed to shoot by RAW

2. Vehicles are now always WS1 regardless of whether it moved, unless it is a Walker, Chariot or is immobilised.

3. Crew Shaken, Stunned, Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised results only affect passengers of a transport if they fail a Ld test. If failed, they can only fire Snap Shots in their next shooting phase.

Still reading through the book. What are some of the little changes that you have picked up?

Yeah I read the line of sight rule too, head, body, torso, arm, leg need to draw line of sight to any part of the target body. The next page they go on and tell us to check behind the models head. I think that was a typo left in from another edition.

There was a rule about intervening models and a model not but in same unit doesn't get a cover save. I don't have book in front of me ATM... So I can clarify tomorrow when I wake.

It no longer says how many units you must have on the field for reserves but you still lose if you have no models on the table. No more only half your units in reserve.

Characters and independent characters no longer get precision strikes at all.

Rubble terrain, 4+ do not have to be 25% covered. (pg109 middle right) Seems like this is the new area terrain? So craters give a 6+ while all the old "area terrain" gives 4+.

Can you still throw grenades?

Yes they are are the same. Defensive grenades are str 1 but cause blind.

Also,
Snipers no longer have rending, just precision shot and ap2 on a six to wound. Also Str4 vs vehicles.

Does blind need to wound or hit?

If hit take an initiative test.

thats pretty cool. Can you over watch with grenades at all?

Any changes to make Salvo weapons worth taking?

Nothing says you can't. The only ones I can see are the Haywire and krak since they don't have blast in their shooting profile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Salvo weapons, they are the same, can't assault if you shoot them btw.

Blind is blast? Because imagine the luck of blinding an assault unit before they charge. I may be putting too much faith in defensive grenades, but honestly this is the most exciting thing about 7th. Love that grenade. For some reason.

Ramming is nice, Half your armor value rounded up, +1 for being a tank, +2 for being a heavy or super heavy. +1 to your armor value if you have a dozer blade. So me Leman Russ tank AV14 would hit at Str9, Str10 if I had a dozer blade sadly can only make snap shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Defensive grenades: Str1 Ap- assault 1, Blast, Blind
Assaulting units do not gain bonus attacks for charging unless you were already locked in combat.

 portugus wrote:
It no longer says how many units you must have on the field for reserves but you still lose if you have no models on the table. No more only half your units in reserve.

Characters and independent characters no longer get precision strikes at all.

Rubble terrain, 4+ do not have to be 25% covered. (pg109 middle right) Seems like this is the new area terrain? So craters give a 6+ while all the old "area terrain" gives 4+.

Kind of.

Rubble would basically be rocky formations that are, to scale anyway, large rocks that you cant normally walk over without slowing down a bit...least thats the impression it gives me. The 4+ from rocky terrain bases was there before but it was 25% obscured, so they got buffed lol.
Craters are the only "area terrain" now. Everything else has the 25% obscured rule, meaning patches of rough ground are still difficult terrain but confer no cover unless theres something sticking out of it that is covering your model (i.e. trees or some random junk).

Also i totally spaced over the no precision strikes bit. Hmm, interesting nerf. I know some people that are going to flip over that one (i never even pay attention to it lol).

OP:
Couple of big things i noticed that were kinda subtle were:

Snipers: No longer are Rending or Pinning. They are S4 against vehicles, always wound on a 4+ like before, and wounds of 6 are AP2 (note: NOT rending, just ap2). This is rather big, as snipers could glance AV12 before and now they can only glance AV10 since they lack the D3 bonus for rending. Pinning loss sucks too, but i can live without it since most things i shoot snipers at are fearless anyway.

Shooting Phase - Determining Which Guns To Shoot. Remember in 6th the book itself said "Wounds can be allocated beyond the guns' maximum range" but they faq'd it to say the opposite, and worded it badly as all feth? Well, its clearly written out now that different guns do NOT shot at the same time. You can effectively shot yourself out of range if you fire a longer gun first, then fire something shorter, as it specifically states on pg36

Select Another Weapon:
After the attacks from the currently selected weapon have been completely resolved, if the firing unit is equipped with a differently named shooting weapon that has yet to fire, you can now select it and shoot with it at the same target unit. This is resolved in exactly the same way as the first weapon you selected, but you may now find that due to the casualties you inflicted that there are now fewer models in the target unit in range....."

Meaning people that viewed the FAQ as "long as i got a longer gun, i can wound that far" instead of the obvious intentions of the FAQ cannot use a boltgun to increase a flamer's "kill range" anymore lol.

 portugus wrote:
It no longer says how many units you must have on the field for reserves but you still lose if you have no models on the table. No more only half your units in reserve.

At what point do you lose for not having models on the table?

How does skyfire and intercept work now, I heard they were nerfed even more.

kingleir wrote:

 portugus wrote:
It no longer says how many units you must have on the field for reserves but you still lose if you have no models on the table. No more only half your units in reserve.

At what point do you lose for not having models on the table?

Pg133

Victory conditions clearly state if your opponent has no models on the board, noting that embarked units count as on the board, and that units in reserves/ongoing reserves do not count, you win the game automatically.

How does skyfire and intercept work now, I heard they were nerfed even more.

Neither the Skyfire or the Interceptor description mentions if it has both it can fire at both air and ground at normal BS anymore. Outside that, theyre the same (skyfire fires at zooming fliers, swooping MCs, or skimmers at normal BS and snaps at the rest). Which kinda destroys the ADL doesnt it lol

Actually, speaking of the ADL, did anybody notice on pg119 they threw a curveball at us to jack more money? It mentions fortifications are found in the Warhammer 40k Stronghold Assault, and i cant find the ADL/Bastion/Fort of Redemp/Landing Pad in the rulebook anymore

Ok so no full drop pod assault or Deathwing assault then.

I'm sure you will see enough FMCs, Wave Serpents and Heldrakes to make the Quad Gun worth it.

kingleir wrote:
Ok so no full drop pod assault or Deathwing assault then.

The rule says at the end of any game turn, so you can still go full drop pod or deathwing


There are no longer levels in ruins, so blast templates now hit everyone underneath and you cant hide from barrage.

Dangerous is per terrain feature instead of per phase.
Turbo boost doesn't improve jink
Monsterous cant GTG
Novas can hit fliers
Declare weapons as you fire instead of declaring them at the start.
Chariots just got pretty boss
Cant overwatch while GTG
Walkers have hammer of wrath
Walkers can no longer pivot to shoot, stuck with the arcs

Challenges now carry over to the unit, but a character in a challenge can be attacked if there is no one else to allocate wounds to. So a daemon prince in a challenge can be attacked by the rest of the unit if he is by himself, but he can also kill his way past the challenge.

Models can charge from a building, even if they disembarked as a result of destroyed.

That is just what I remember off the top of my head

Wait, if theres a challenge going on but nothing else to swing at the rest of the unit can hit the character in a challenge?

Rereading that lol thats kinda big.

Holy crap youre right. The hell? Well, that means the solo badass characters cant effectively ignore the entire unit if a challenge is accepted anymore lol GOOD freakin bs you could pull that off and stall a unit a turn. Also means the "cheerleader" rule, whatever the official name for it was, is gone, as i see nothing referring to the "For every 5 models in the unit when there is nothing to swing at, reroll 1 die" - i can live with that, as usually it only happens in said solo badass character situations and my guy got SMASHED anyway and get no rolls at all lol

Is it still BS 1 to shoot at flyers without skyfire, because if people can run what they want only, I expect to see a lot more flyers.

Is the challenge fought before the unit strikes? Or, if he's alone is he really in a challenge?

 Orock wrote:
Is it still BS 1 to shoot at flyers without skyfire, because if people can run what they want only, I expect to see a lot more flyers.

Yes it is BS1 to shoot at fliers.

Also here is another big one I just found, they clarified leadership tests.

If a model is required to take a leadership test it uses its leadership

If a UNIT is required to take a leadership test it uses the highest in the unit.

Pretty significant IMO

Hits from blasts need to hit either the base OR the model, so no taking advantage of small flying bases on all jetbikes to make it harder to hit.

Removed from play is clarified to be the same as removed as a casualty, so if you have something that protects you from casualty stuff, it now works on removes from play.

Guys, check out page 86. The Burning Chariot of Tzeentch can now move and shoot at full BS!

Challenges have in 6th and still do in 7th follow the initiative steps. If the characters are I1 because of big weapons, they will fight last anyway. Likewise, if they both have I5+ or whatever is needed to be higher than the rest of the unit, they swing first. However, if one is I6 and the other is I2 and the unit is I4, the I6 swings in the challenge, the unit swings at the other unit at I4, then if hes still alive from the I6 attacks, the other character at I2 swings at the other challenger.

Most people resolve them separately since it can be a little confusing sometimes as to who is attacking what and when and how etc etc

 Vineheart01 wrote:


Shooting Phase - Determining Which Guns To Shoot. Remember in 6th the book itself said "Wounds can be allocated beyond the guns' maximum range" but they faq'd it to say the opposite, and worded it badly as all feth? Well, its clearly written out now that different guns do NOT shot at the same time. You can effectively shot yourself out of range if you fire a longer gun first, then fire something shorter, as it specifically states on pg36

Select Another Weapon:
After the attacks from the currently selected weapon have been completely resolved, if the firing unit is equipped with a differently named shooting weapon that has yet to fire, you can now select it and shoot with it at the same target unit. This is resolved in exactly the same way as the first weapon you selected, but you may now find that due to the casualties you inflicted that there are now fewer models in the target unit in range....."

Meaning people that viewed the FAQ as "long as i got a longer gun, i can wound that far" instead of the obvious intentions of the FAQ cannot use a boltgun to increase a flamer's "kill range" anymore lol.

Interesting. What about a unit that has all the same gun, with models scattered all through out the range of the weapon. OR say half of the firing unit is in range of only two models in the target unit, 1/4 are within range of 5 models and the remaining 1/4 are in range of them all? Seems like a big mess.

To my Plaguebearers dismay I noticed they changed poison in CC, your strength now must be higher than the opponents toughness to get rerolls to wound, no longer equal or higher.

Thats not a problem at all, even in 6th wording.

It says "Any weapon that is found to be out of range of all visible enemy models in the target unit cannot shoot" it does not say anything along the lines of "define how far each model can shoot into a unit" like you described.
Even when determining cover saves its as long as 1 firer has his vision obstructed, as pg37 explains. None of this "This model is further away from the closest model, but at a different angle and can see you clearly unlike the closest model so you dont get a cover from his shots" - unless its a different weapon, thats another story.

 Malthor wrote:
To my Plaguebearers dismay I noticed they changed poison in CC, your strength now must be higher than the opponents toughness to get rerolls to wound, no longer equal or higher.

My Wracks got sad just now.

(Although my uber-Aberrations just shrugged and laughed.)

 Cheexsta wrote:
Vehicles are now always WS1 regardless of whether it moved, unless it is a Walker, Chariot or is immobilised.

You need a 3+ to punch the broad side of a barn?
I mean, I wanted it so vehicles didn't crumble in combat so easily, but I didn't want it to be through a derp

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
To my Plaguebearers dismay I noticed they changed poison in CC, your strength now must be higher than the opponents toughness to get rerolls to wound, no longer equal or higher.

My Wracks got sad just now.

(Although my uber-Aberrations just shrugged and laughed.)

Yeah, my GUO doesn't really care as well, especially if he gets Iron arm now.

I guess I just need to roll up a couple of Enfeebles to make up for this.

While my Nurgle daemons got nerfed a bit, I saw my Space Wolves got a boost, counter attack works automatically now, good news for me as I almost never put Wolf Guard in my Grey Hunters

Also, there's a special Chaos Psi Focus rule which wiill automatically give any psyker with a mark of X or the daemon of X special rule the primaris power of the table of their god in addition to any other powers they generate , that's pretty cool I think.