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Purifiers - scoring now (but not objective secured) on their own. Same as Rhino.
Vehicles don't explode as easily.
Mech lists will be more common. Psycannons are good at stripping hull point.
Purifier psychic power is a witch fire now so it can be cast from inside the vehicle.

5 purifiers, two psycannons in a Rhino sounds like a good idea in 7th. Thoughts?

It gets better. That Rhino also gives your army a psychic power die.

The short range of the nova power is the main problem.

 CKO wrote:
The short range of the nova power is the main problem.

Previously it only used to work in assault! Granted it was more damaging back then. But still the new version allows it to be cast outside of assault. That's a bonus.


How do nova powers work from vehicles anyway? Where does one measure from? Fire point or hull?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it's hull based the power would be pretty darn good.

They are actually kind of amazing in a crowe purifier list. Each rhino+purifier set generates 2 WC, has 2 psycannons, and has 2 objective secured units which makes it very easy to overwhelm opponent's on scoring.

Their psychic power change is both good and bad. I made them weaker to hordes in melee but it makes them capable of wrecking an entire parking lot with a single psychic power. If you can get them positioned right they will hit like a train.

One of the best things about the new purifiers is that you can focus on key units to pop off all their powers. So if you only have that 1 unit in a key position where they can nova flame the center of a gunline, then charge two riptides, you can get hammer hand, force weapon, and purifying flames off all on the same unit in the same turn.

They also make useful batteries for other psykers so if you need extra WC for invisibility or some such then purifiers in rhinos or razorbacks are good troops in their own right that provide a good WC per point.

This is what I am considering running for my GK army:


1750 Crowe-Purifiers

Coteaz

5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino - 189
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino - 189
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, Rhino - 184

2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - Psyback - 68
2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - Psyback - 68
2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - Psyback - 68
2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - Psyback - 68
2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - 18
2x Henchmen, 1x Psyker - 18

Stormraven - TL-AC, TL-MM, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt - 255
Stormraven - TL-AC, TL-MM, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt - 255

Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

1750

I for one am excited to start having a mech heavy GK list, and purifiers defiantly have a spot in my lists now.

jy2 that's a lot of henchmen lol, You'd have more warp charges than you'll know what to do with.

yeah and which psychic domain will you go for with the henchmen psykers? (as they will be the one able to to something early game)

Loadout-wise, are psycannons always better than incinerators? And are halberds worth it now? I'm thinking cost vs benefit here as purifiers always run the risk of being too expensive. Would combat sqadding the special weapons all into one squad (4 incinerators/psycannons hopping out of the rhino) help? With mobility being so important in 7th, will you ever get your 4 psycannon shots? Those incinerators are free!

I think the idea for most of the game is to have the purifiers hide in the Rhino shooting their psycannons. For 20 points seems two psycannons easily beat out incinerators. They actually can hit things more than 6 inches away. Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Don't forget their 'Cleansing Flame' power acts like a heavy flamer anyway, so the purifiers already come with that...

Crowe Purifiers is now a viable list once again. Even without Crowe, they are still pretty awesome because cheap spam able Psycannons are awesome. Adding two WC is just gravy.


@jy2

Not sold on that list buddy, I don't see those WC generated by those Henchmen as being all that useful. Voters only can cast so many powers, unless you are throwing Sanctuary on your dreads and Storm ravens.

Where is Coteaz going, he's got to be on the field for his Osychic powers to be of use?

the psychic henchmen can cast some witchfires as well (or boost some stuff)
And it will help a lot to denie ennemy spells

I'm not sure a Crowe list will be that good. Crowe is pretty terrible for an HQ. And would you want 6 squads of Purifiers? Seems like overkill (they still are expensive for marines). You'd want some henchmen in psybacks and for that you'd want Coteaz.

Super Newb wrote:
They actually can hit things more than 6 inches away. Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Psycannon purifiers only get 2 shots if they move, and count as having moved when embarked and moving at combat speed. Or are you referring to vehicles being relentless? Does that make embarked models relentless too?

Whilst I'm nit-picking, the flame template is 8 inches long. :p

Outside of a transport, if you want 4 psycannon shots, you can't move or charge.

I guess it depends on what you want to use them for. They seem too expensive to buy a squad just to get some nice shooting on a rhino.

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
They actually can hit things more than 6 inches away. Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Psycannon purifiers only get 2 shots if they move, and count as having moved when embarked and moving at combat speed. Or are you referring to vehicles being relentless? Does that make embarked models relentless too?

No, I am referring to them shooting in Heavy mode on purpose, to get more shots, in cases where they would be firing at targets they would have to snap shoot at no matter what (flyers and invisible things).

I guess it depends on what you want to use them for. They seem too expensive to buy a squad just to get some nice shooting on a rhino.

Cheaper to get two psycannons from them than from a Strike Squad.

I keep trying to make purifiers work, and it keeps coming down to Interceptors being more useful. Having more psycannons doesn't help when you can't get them where you need them.

I'm thinking psyback henchmen and interceptors to get where you need to go is the future... until we get a new 'dex.

-Matt

Super Newb wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Psycannon purifiers only get 2 shots if they move, and count as having moved when embarked and moving at combat speed. Or are you referring to vehicles being relentless? Does that make embarked models relentless too?

No, I am referring to them shooting in Heavy mode on purpose, to get more shots, in cases where they would be firing at targets they would have to snap shoot at no matter what (flyers and invisible things).

Not after moving.

I guess it depends on what you want to use them for. They seem too expensive to buy a squad just to get some nice shooting on a rhino.

Cheaper to get two psycannons from them than from a Strike Squad.

True, and you'd have to bring 10 strikes.

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Psycannon purifiers only get 2 shots if they move, and count as having moved when embarked and moving at combat speed. Or are you referring to vehicles being relentless? Does that make embarked models relentless too?

No, I am referring to them shooting in Heavy mode on purpose, to get more shots, in cases where they would be firing at targets they would have to snap shoot at no matter what (flyers and invisible things).

Not after moving.

Why not? (Heavy Weapons can be shot after moving. Psycannons have a Heavy Weapon mode.)

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I keep trying to make purifiers work, and it keeps coming down to Interceptors being more useful. Having more psycannons doesn't help when you can't get them where you need them.

Yep, they seem to be competing with interceptors for the same role now, for very similar prices. Interceptors have the mobility edge, and purifiers are more shooty, choppy and have better scoring and WC (with rhino) and cleansing flame.

How about this: in a list with purifiers and a grand master, use grand strategy to give them scout. 10 man squad in a rhino. Combat squads into a special weapons squad and a cc squad. 12" scout in the rhino, 6" move turn 1, hop out and move 6 inches into enemy's face. Special weapons and storm bolters and cleansing flame. Turn 2 combat.

Possibly combine purifiers and interceptors in one list, could be an extremely dangerous alpha-strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Super Newb wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Also they can snap shot at their full number of shots at flyers (or anything invisible) even after moving.

Psycannon purifiers only get 2 shots if they move, and count as having moved when embarked and moving at combat speed. Or are you referring to vehicles being relentless? Does that make embarked models relentless too?

No, I am referring to them shooting in Heavy mode on purpose, to get more shots, in cases where they would be firing at targets they would have to snap shoot at no matter what (flyers and invisible things).

Not after moving.

Why not?

You're absolutely right! I didn't make the 'heavy weapons - snap shots' connection. This is a great little thing to know.

Good idea by the way.

So you could make the following list at 2k pts

Coteaz
Grand Master
10 purif, 4 psycanons, rhino
10 purif, 4 psycanons, rhino
10 purif, 4 psycanons, rhino
2 henchmen, psyker, razorback psyamo
2 henchmen, psyker, razorback psyamo
2 henchmen, psyker, razorback psyamo
2 henchmen, psyker, razorback psyamo
2 henchmen, psyker, razorback psyamo
Dread, autocanon, psyamo
Dread, autocanon, psyamo
Dread, autocanon, psyamo

That makes it 26WC, fully mecanised and the purif teams can rush forward as you mentionned for T2 charges and T1 psychic novas (potentially 6 novas....)

 Zagman wrote:
Crowe Purifiers is now a viable list once again. Even without Crowe, they are still pretty awesome because cheap spam able Psycannons are awesome. Adding two WC is just gravy.


@jy2

Not sold on that list buddy, I don't see those WC generated by those Henchmen as being all that useful. Voters only can cast so many powers, unless you are throwing Sanctuary on your dreads and Storm ravens.

Where is Coteaz going, he's got to be on the field for his Osychic powers to be of use?

No worries. The henchmen are there more for the Objective Secured scoring bodies than for the psychic powers. The extra warp charges and the S3 large blasts for only 6-pts more is just a bonus.

Normally, I'd actually put Coteaz in a raven with the henchmen. However, it really depends on what type of army you play against. If you go up against an army where you think you'd be needing Coteaz's powers, then put him in a unit with the Purifiers.

 jy2 wrote:
The henchmen are there more for the Objective Secured scoring bodies than for the psychic powers. The extra warp charges and the S3 large blasts for only 6-pts more is just a bonus.

Sadly they don't get their Psychic Barrage power anymore. I am actually really bummed about that. You could psychic shriek with them though. lol.

Oooh....nasty! Even better then!

Super Newb wrote:You could psychic shriek with them though. lol.

Or fish for vortex of doom.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:You could psychic shriek with them though. lol.

Or fish for vortex of doom.

Unfortunately your Primaris would be complete crap against anything but Daemons if you go that way. At least with Telepathy you have a chance to get something like Invisibility or Shrouding, and are guaranteed Shriek on top of it. I'd maybe go fishing with one or two, but not all of them.

 greyknight12 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:You could psychic shriek with them though. lol.

Or fish for vortex of doom.

Doh! Psyker-spam GK's are starting to sound more and more broken....

....though I'd much prefer the guaranteed Psychic Shriek over the possible-Vortex-but-most-likely-Banishment route.

Remmber, jy2, you get the primaris as a free bonus if you roll all your powers on the same table. This is 100% of the time for a Mastery lvl 1 Psyker, of course.

My plan for henchman psykers is definitely rolling on Telepathy, all the powers are useful and you get a good witchfire for free.

I'm not going to mechanize them though, they need to dismount from their Razorback to cast anyway and going to ground doesn't affect psychic casting so sticking them in cover somewhere seems viable.

Since the psychic phase is after movement and doesn't effect shooting, short ranged witchfire spells got a huge boost. As someone stated above, give those purifiers scout and rush forward in rhinos, then unload your witchfire attacks and ALL your shooting firepower.

Lanlaorn wrote:

I'm not going to mechanize them though, they need to dismount from their Razorback to cast anyway and going to ground doesn't affect psychic casting so sticking them in cover somewhere seems viable.

Why not, aside from preference issues?

The witchfire Telepathy power is incredibly short-ranged and easily avoided on a static, easy-to-kill unit.

Moreover, the transport itself has Objective Secured if bought as a dedicated troop transport....as well as to provide you with another WC for casting.

There is no reason not to take transports other than fluff/army theme or money reasons.