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Here’s a doozey of a story for you. If you’re not a huge fan of Kotaku or the infamous social justice warrior / indie developer Zoe Quinn, you’re in for a treat. There’s even a bit about bearded loudmouth Phil Fish. How did such a huge scandal unfold? Well let’s start at the beginning. Zoe Quinn is an indie game developer responsible for the recently published Depression Quest (which I said some nice things about here). It turns out that Zoe has become somewhat infamous online, often accused of playing the victim to gain publicity. Speculation turned to accusation yesterday, when Zoe’s ex-boyfriend make a post on his own blog, accusing her (with proof) of cheating with a number of prominent industry figures. Among them was current Kotaku writer Nathan Grayson, apparently solicitating sexual favours for positive press.
Pretty simple, right? The developer in question loses credibility, along with the gaming publication that allowed such a massive breach of professionalism occur. Except the rabbit hole has been going further than that. Not only has she been swapping blow for positive press, but also leveraging her sexual connections to stamp out anybody critical of her, most notably the organisers of ‘Women’s Game Jam’, who accuse the indie developer of encouraging a press blackout on the charity Jam to promote her own similar event.
Many industry figures and commentators have also had quite a lot to say on the issue, with both sides standing as far away from the fence as possible. Polarising figures like Anita Sarkeesian and Phil Fish have rushed to the aid of the controversy struck developer, the former offering support and the latter going on one of his famous explicit crusades, insulting anybody who calls themselves a gamer and picking fights with far more respected developers such as Marcus ‘Notch’ Persson. On the other side of the fence is YouTube commentator TotalBiscuit, also known as the Cynical Brit, who attacks both Zoe and gaming journalism in general for lack of professionalism and work ethic in a very lengthy twitter post. Also weighing as the loudest voice in the debate is YouTube user ‘InternetAristocrat’, who gives his thoughts in a half hour monologue attacking the corruption of the gaming press and the problems with blind Social Justice Warriors in his latest video.
InternetAristocrats take on things. Certainly worth the time it takes to watch it.
It seems like woman may have had sex with some people.
Events accepted as fact, woman demonized, assumed to have had the sex to manipulate men for favors.
News at 11.
Yawn.
I'm giving this more attention than it deserves just by making this post.
God forbid an ex-boyfriend not be considered a reliable source.
Heaven perish the thought woman a might just like getting dickings from dudes she meets.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 00:16:12
Blacksails wrote: The drama at reddit's r/gaming is also pretty tasty.
Only reason I noticed it when I did is because I forgot to bring my game of thrones book with me to work today. Passing time on my phone and found my way into that storm. Even got to where people were getting banned and threads deleted on 4chan of all places. That's tinfoil hat territory.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chongara wrote: It seems like woman may have had sex with some people.
Events accepted as fact, woman demonized, assumed to have had the sex to manipulate men for favors.
News at 11.
Yawn.
I'm giving this more attention than it deserves just by making this post.
If you really think it's all just about some girl sleeping around with a bunch of guys, you obviously didn't look into the situation at all. Good job.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 00:16:08
“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”
If you really think it's all just about some girl sleeping around with a bunch of guys, you obviously didn't look into the situation at all. Good job.
I read quote you posted here. That is, I read the information provided in this thread. None of it was compelling enough to warrant further investigation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 00:17:36
If you really think it's all just about some girl sleeping around with a bunch of guys, you obviously didn't look into the situation at all. Good job.
I read quote you posted here. That is, I read the information provided in this thread. None of it was compelling enough to warrant further investigation.
So.. You're just posting to be posting then?
Regardless right now apparently she's throwing DMCA's at anyone who mentions her now and things are being pulled as a result
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 01:05:59
Chongara wrote: It seems like woman may have had sex with some people.
Events accepted as fact, woman demonized, assumed to have had the sex to manipulate men for favors.
News at 11.
Yawn.
I'm giving this more attention than it deserves just by making this post.
God forbid an ex-boyfriend not be considered a reliable source.
Heaven perish the thought woman a might just like getting dickings from dudes she meets.
Of course, it's equally impossible that someone might use sex as way to gain favor or power over others. Because just like ex-boyfriends being unreliable sources and women enjoying sex, that never happens either.
We are now equally guilty of giving this more attention than it deserves.
OP ... Thank you for that post ... was very informative. I have never heard of this Zoe chick and could not care about her ... her actions and the actions of others I find VERY disturbing. It is very disheartening to hear about the backdoor deals that have happened and the people who are involved who should have had professional detachment and recused themselves when the situation changed. It is very little wonder that I do not even bother about news at all anymore, due to the actions of shady writers like these people.
Very good story. Exalted.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 01:34:25
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
Gaming Journalism has never had credibility. Developers and Studios *constantly* buy A+ reviews for whatever their latest titles are. That's been going on since the late 90s, at the least, when video game magazines stopped being entirely produced by the developers themselves (ever see Nintendo Power give a Nintendo game a poor score? Didn't think so.)
So this chick might have slept her way to the top? Big deal.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Eh. She's got Phil Fish and Anita Sarkeeeeeeesian going into phalanx mode for her. That's not really sleeping her way to the top, more like blowing her way to the fringe.
Forgot all about this guy. Then I remembered he's that psychotic fez creator. Pretty laughable stuff he's been putting out on twitter over this. I can't find the image of it, but it went something like this
@phil - I'm cancelling a game you don't know about because of this!
@phil - And another!
@phil - And another!!!!
“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”
Forgot all about this guy. Then I remembered he's that psychotic fez creator. Pretty laughable stuff he's been putting out on twitter over this. I can't find the image of it, but it went something like this
@phil - I'm cancelling a game you don't know about because of this!
@phil - And another!
@phil - And another!!!!
Yeaaahh... With Phil defending her as he is, it's not looking to good with her with who is actually supporting her through all this.
She seemed to have had a decent amount of support and good will from that.
---
Also, as an aside, just because ignorant kneejerk attention-whores like Fish and Sarkeesian support someone doesn't mean that person is wrong. Even a broken clock is not a scummy attention-whore twice per day.
Absolutionis wrote: I
Also, as an aside, just because ignorant kneejerk attention-whores like Fish and Sarkeesian support someone doesn't mean that person is wrong. Even a broken clock is not a scummy attention-whore twice per day.
..I can't tell where exactly that line is going in support or not, though Evidence is starting to pile up a bit with the Wizardgate Fiasco (Which conveniently helped get her game passed steam greenlight ), and a few other issues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 03:22:33
I have no idea who these people are, but it would seem some woman slept with people, perhaps for favorable reviews of titles so minor most wouldn't know about.
Is there any proof that there was a quid pro quo going on or just people in the industry sleeping with other people in the industry? It seems if nothing this provers that gamers are getting laid, so that is a good thing.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I think the concept that Gaming Journalism was ever meant to be taken seriously, is pretty darn funny to be honest. Gaming journalism as far as I'm concerned has been a joke for several years now, (I'm not saying every publisher is, I'm talking generally 'larger' gaming journalism publishers like Kotaku, IGN etc.)
Although I must admit these days I don't really read any gaming journalism, I hear about games via friends, /vg/ and various internet spots here and there, not dedicated journalism sources as it were. As far as reviews go, I don't really read any anymore, the only person who will know if I like a game, will be me, I can get a general feel for a game from trailers and the like. If I buy something and it turns out to be rubbish I can return/trade-in or simply pass along to someone who may.
Interesting article though, and I apologise for the somewhat rant, I tend to be a bit of a grump when it comes to vidya.
If it isn't Megaman X for the SNES, I don't really care
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 04:39:30
Absolutionis wrote: I
Also, as an aside, just because ignorant kneejerk attention-whores like Fish and Sarkeesian support someone doesn't mean that person is wrong. Even a broken clock is not a scummy attention-whore twice per day.
..I can't tell where exactly that line is going in support or not, though Evidence is starting to pile up a bit with the Wizardgate Fiasco (Which conveniently helped get her game passed steam greenlight ), and a few other issues.
Evidence points towards games journalists being nepotistic scum. Zoe Quinn especially is a liar and deserves to be discredited.
I'm just tired of seeing Sarkeesian and Fish continue to be mentioned or discredited as if they have any association with video games. It's like saying "Glenn Beck and Jack Thompson hate it, it must be good!".
Everyone should read TotalBiscuits bit on this. Going after Zoe Quinn as some kind of special evil is a little pointless because she's not that special. Trading favors for favors is gaming journalism 101. Maybe sex isn't typically the kind of favor being traded, but I'm not sure that's really what should be the focus on this incident.
The gaming media is pretty much built on narcissism.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The games media has long been able to get away with its crap because they were internet savvy and could easily manipulate anything to their advantage. Its not working anymore, because now everyone else is getting pretty internet savvy. Making insane comments then deleting them and claiming anyone who talks about them after the fact doesn't work anymore. The Chan family might be vile, but apparently they're tired of being blamed for things they didn't do (and the things they can do to prove they didn't do it can be rather extreme). Quinn is part of an old age of internet master manipulators who aren't going to be able to keep their scams going now that people have learned how to use print screen and save page.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 07:41:18
Oh man, this is a level of awesome I can't readily describe. I love how stupid, high school/twitter bs now permeates the gaming scene.
First, this should not be considered news in the way that actual news presents a story, facts, sources, and experts commenting on the subject. This is social crap that only benefits the accused by giving them time in the limelight; here's hoping it dies soon.
Secondly, Who. fething. Cares. This chick uses everything in her arsenal to remain popular, not surprising in the slightest. Every attention seeking douchecanoe does the SAME thing; and it doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. The best thing that could come out of this is...well, nothing. That it's made it this far is shameful.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 14:07:10
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Basically called an internet attack squad on a depression forum to get support for herself and game, as well as basically manipulating several editors and sites to giving her better views and support?
Though yeah, it's the internet, I actually hope for some more callouts of the people that she was with that were basically shown to be corrupt as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 14:12:26
Don't get me wrong, what she did was wrong. My disappointment comes from the fact that things like this have happened in the past-- and yet very few people really cared until the person doing it was a woman. So very telling that that is what causes the outrage, that a woman share in the corruption of the games media.
That plus the fact that most of the people I've seen "caring" about this issue on the internet (before I even noticed this thread) have basically just been using it as fuel for their own stupid pathetic "feminists are evil" campaign rather than bothering to care about the actual corruption in the reporting industry.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: My disappointment comes from the fact that things like this have happened in the past-- and yet very few people really cared until the person doing it was a woman.
Welcome to the story of my life.
The police are being reckless and hurt people unnecessarily? No one cares until a baby gets hit by a flash bang grenade.
Your private information is being collected and stored for someone else's benefit? No one cares until the US government does it.
Games journalism is a pit of terrible people doing ethically questionable things? No one cares until it involves sex.
That plus the fact that most of the people I've seen "caring" about this issue on the internet (before I even noticed this thread) have basically just been using it as fuel for their own stupid pathetic "feminists are evil" campaign rather than bothering to care about the actual corruption in the reporting industry.
Is she even a very outspoken person on the women and video games issue?
LordofHats wrote: Is she even a very outspoken person on the women and video games issue?
I never heard of her before this scandal.
Still not really sure who she is other than a random indie dev with extremely questionable ethics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 15:51:59
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
'I'm like a man with a fork, in a world of soup.' 
3rd Company (3000 points) 
