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What is the best (most competitive) army for fielding infantry heavy lists. Seems like Tyranids and Daemons are best with monstrous creature spam, most other armies are better with either transports (for the most part) or (ocassionally) bikes... Is there a really tasty army out there that can win with a lot of boots on the ground?
The only example I can really think of is Drop Pod marines: land lots of models, fire meltas, try to last till the end of the game...
Not really counting orks because I've never seen them played successfully...
Daemons and 'Nids to take the cake... though I dunno how fair it is to include them considering they're specifically designed around foot-slogging.
As far as the armies that can mech-up as an option... I would say MSU drop-pod marines. My first thought goes to blob-Guard, but I'm not convinced it's all that competitive.
Relatively speaking, but they're cheap enough for you to take hordes of them at once, and their durability can be buffed.
As an example, last month and I played a match with my Tyranids against a Russ wall Guard list. He eventually conceded after my Flyrant got behind his Pask squad and killled all three tanks in a round of shooting, but before that point a single unit of Termagaunts had managed to absorb about 3000 points' of fire over the course of the game, due to having a venomthrope give them 5+ cover on top of them sitting in ruins. They ate fire from two executioners, a Punisher, a Battle-Tank and two exterminators for about 4 straight turns.
You can make similar magic happen with daemons, with the grimoire, cursed earth and invisibility.
I've played drop pod salamanders with 50+ marines. I haven't lost with it yet, but I've had draws and very narrow victories. It almost never dominant or overwhelming, but it scores a lot of maelstrom objectives and first blood/linebreaker almost guaranteed. Here is a quick battle report if curious.
The best boots on the ground infantry list is probably GK/SM Centurion Star with Draigo, Loth, and 6 Grav Cents, it is top tier competitive. Other extremely good infantry lists are definitely SM Scout Spam, Daemon Factory Conjuring List, and IG blobbs + Azzy, Loth, or Issodon + Inquisition Grenade Caddies.
Drop Pod SM are also good but I am not sure how much "foot slogging" that army could be considered as it drops in.
ansacs wrote: The best boots on the ground infantry list is probably GK/SM Centurion Star with Draigo, Loth, and 6 Grav Cents, it is top tier competitive. Other extremely good infantry lists are definitely SM Scout Spam, Daemon Factory Conjuring List, and IG blobbs + Azzy, Loth, or Issodon + Inquisition Grenade Caddies.
Drop Pod SM are also good but I am not sure how much "foot slogging" that army could be considered as it drops in.
CentStar just doesn't really feel like a "good ol' boots-on-the-ground army" that OP was talking about. I mean yes those models all have feet and are on the ground, but 7-9 super elite models zipping around the board via GoI and generally being a nigh unkillable wub-wub factory doesn't feel like "boots-on-the-ground."
I do agree though that GK can make a formidable list that puts a decent amount of models on the board and is efficient without use of transports and other vehicles (although Dreadknights are practically a must).
Dedicated Summoning Factories have proved not to be as insane as everyone first thought, but solid Daemon lists augmented by summoning are looking good, and put a lot infantry/beasts/cavalry on the table.
If you play in a setting where you can take as many detachments as possible, it would be interesting to see full strength squads of fire warriors, all backed by a cadre fireblade in action. That's 36+ S5 shots at enemies within 15". An ethereal or two buffing multiple units too, but you really need a high ratio of HQ to troops. I'm not sure how long T3 4+ models would last, but mayber compared to guard that's not too bad?
Believe it or not, I'm of the opinion that Tyranids can play the OS game just as well as Marines, if not better. Give some EGrubs to your Tervigons and go to town. You need about 330 points to get an average of about 50 OS bodies (one of which is 6W T6 3+), and you can repeat that 2 more times in a single CAD. No one builds this because it's reliant on getting Dominion off to keep your gribblies outside of the explosion zone, but with venoms and zoans (or just a malanthrope) it can work quite well. It won't have much teeth but if you spend 1000 points to get 150 OS bodies, you can certainly flesh out the other 850 points to do some work. It's not going to win tournaments because it takes forever to move. Many people don't enjoy playing it because it takes forever to move. I won't play it because it takes forever to move. But you won't find more boots on the ground period, and you can get some good cover saves as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/15 06:10:48
I don't really consider anything with bikes to be Boots-on-the-ground.
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jakl277 wrote: AV13 necrons are actually the best boots in boxes .
Ghostarks with necrons and a dest tek + some heavy shooting support.
That equates more to AV13 wall, more than boots-on-the-ground. If you had said warrior phalanxes with Monoliths and ghost arks for backup, with lords in the middle with Rez orbs, I'd probably agree that's a pretty tough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/15 06:19:59
koooaei wrote: How come noone listed orks. Greentide is as close to competitive as footslogging can get. It's insanity counters the meta hard.
This.^
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BlaxicanX wrote: Relatively speaking, but they're cheap enough for you to take hordes of them at once, and their durability can be buffed.
As an example, last month and I played a match with my Tyranids against a Russ wall Guard list. He eventually conceded after my Flyrant got behind his Pask squad and killled all three tanks in a round of shooting, but before that point a single unit of Termagaunts had managed to absorb about 3000 points' of fire over the course of the game, due to having a venomthrope give them 5+ cover on top of them sitting in ruins. They ate fire from two executioners, a Punisher, a Battle-Tank and two exterminators for about 4 straight turns.
You can make similar magic happen with daemons, with the grimoire, cursed earth and invisibility.
I have to agree, Tyranids are all about buffing eachother, either with bubbles of shrouded, psychic powers, ext. I played against a decent IG list with my Tyranids as well, and actually used my Trygon Prime's hole ability, and out came 30 Termagants. On top of rippers, Genestealers, Hormagaunts, and Shrikes running/deep striking. It was actually rather effective.
The way I mostly play my nids is by bunkering down with 2+ cover saves, or marching up the board with waves of gaunts followed by big beasties with good shooting. I've had many successful games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/15 06:23:30
How far does boots on the ground extend to? Walkers included?
Daemons, as stated by others, can be great. They have lots of really awesome units that are ground based. (screamers, hounds and plague drones) as well as some good decent infantry (plaugebearers daemonettes and pink horrors) Daemons also have the advantage of being able to create more daemons, via summoning, portal glyph, or super luck on the warp storm.
Drop pod marines are up there too, I would put space wolves near the top. While they don't have the free special weapon anymore. The champions of Fenris book is pretty much made for bringing tons of dudes. SW have TWC, paws on the ground I guess, but they are horriby amazing, and WS5 with the company of the great wolf detachment in that new book. Wolf guard (in all forms) are also WS5, giving them a pretty big boost over other marines in CC. SW also have some really fun dreadnought variants the axe and shield dreadnought has been an MVP in every game I played so far!
Mavnas wrote: If you play in a setting where you can take as many detachments as possible, it would be interesting to see full strength squads of fire warriors, all backed by a cadre fireblade in action. That's 36+ S5 shots at enemies within 15". An ethereal or two buffing multiple units too, but you really need a high ratio of HQ to troops. I'm not sure how long T3 4+ models would last, but mayber compared to guard that's not too bad?
No limit to detachements goes to DE.
10 points for HQ 40 points for troop unit
10 points for fast attack unit
100 UNITS is 1600 points
Every time you take fire, your opponent is massively over-killing.
Overwatch kills 1 of your guys.
Firepower? 100 poison shots at 24", 220 poison shots at 18", 340 poison shots at 12".
You'll end the game with a lot of feel no pain (5+), furious charge, rage, fearless units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/15 16:39:51
BoomWolf wrote: Enclaves are thecnically boots on the ground.
Very fancy boots.
I agree. You can field a very strong army without including a single vehicle. The problem is that the army buffs itself, though to a lesser extent than with Tyranids.
'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
luke1705 wrote:Believe it or not, I'm of the opinion that Tyranids can play the OS game just as well as Marines, if not better. Give some EGrubs to your Tervigons and go to town. You need about 330 points to get an average of about 50 OS bodies (one of which is 6W T6 3+), and you can repeat that 2 more times in a single CAD. No one builds this because it's reliant on getting Dominion off to keep your gribblies outside of the explosion zone, but with venoms and zoans (or just a malanthrope) it can work quite well. It won't have much teeth but if you spend 1000 points to get 150 OS bodies, you can certainly flesh out the other 850 points to do some work. It's not going to win tournaments because it takes forever to move. Many people don't enjoy playing it because it takes forever to move. I won't play it because it takes forever to move. But you won't find more boots on the ground period, and you can get some good cover saves as well.
The reason this is largely ignored and you don't see it as much is that there are a number of lists that can kill 80+ T3 models a turn and that is without considering the deaths you take from exploding monsters or failed morale. Large numbers of models on the board need a reliable good cover save (which is why you should definitely take a malanthrope in your list). There is also the issues with mobility infantry swarms have, many lists can kill enough models out of your infantry to undo all your movement thus leaving you unable to claim objectives.
Don't get me wrong though I think a well run, synergistic nid swarm could have a shot but playing the army is going to be the hard part as moving all those models will eat away at your time.
astro_nomicon wrote:CentStar just doesn't really feel like a "good ol' boots-on-the-ground army" that OP was talking about. I mean yes those models all have feet and are on the ground, but 7-9 super elite models zipping around the board via GoI and generally being a nigh unkillable wub-wub factory doesn't feel like "boots-on-the-ground."
Lol, yeah I just considered it from the perspective of what was infantry only armies. Though honestly I have seen some cent stars with scout support that outnumbered most of the other lists.
astro_nomicon wrote:I do agree though that GK can make a formidable list that puts a decent amount of models on the board and is efficient without use of transports and other vehicles (although Dreadknights are practically a must).
The GK nemesis strike force makes GK ground pounders have a real shot at being effective. The ability to DS turn 1 and shoot and run that turn is awesome.
astro_nomicon wrote:Dedicated Summoning Factories have proved not to be as insane as everyone first thought, but solid Daemon lists augmented by summoning are looking good, and put a lot infantry/beasts/cavalry on the table.
I totally agree that daemon factory is not a dominate all comers win button that the internet liked to claim it was, in fact I was one of the people arguing that it was a reasonably balanced competitive list and should absolutely not be banned or neutered. However D factories built correctly are powerful and can definitely (and have) make it to the final round in top GTs. A D factory done right will start summoning damage dealers turn 1 not building up into further warp charges like people tend to think as otherwise the opponent just starts gaining points and often times kills more than you summon. Now if they start letting LoW Daemon Lords into tournaments D factory will start having a serious shift.
BoomWolf wrote:Enclaves are thecnically boots on the ground.
Very fancy boots.
I didn't even think of Tau. You are totally right that fire warrior castles, farsight enclaves, etc...are those "boats" any more though? Wouldn't they be horse shoes? (goat shoes?)
Think I it's hard to make Enclave v effective (as in top tier effective) without Skyrays (multiple). Grav spam is such a huge problem for Riptides and Broadsides.
luke1705 wrote: Believe it or not, I'm of the opinion that Tyranids can play the OS game just as well as Marines, if not better. Give some EGrubs to your Tervigons and go to town. You need about 330 points to get an average of about 50 OS bodies (one of which is 6W T6 3+), and you can repeat that 2 more times in a single CAD. No one builds this because it's reliant on getting Dominion off to keep your gribblies outside of the explosion zone, but with venoms and zoans (or just a malanthrope) it can work quite well. It won't have much teeth but if you spend 1000 points to get 150 OS bodies, you can certainly flesh out the other 850 points to do some work. It's not going to win tournaments because it takes forever to move. Many people don't enjoy playing it because it takes forever to move. I won't play it because it takes forever to move. But you won't find more boots on the ground period, and you can get some good cover saves as well.
The reason nobody plays it is because after spending 350 pts per tervigon you are left with zero offensive output whatsoever, just multiple copies of one of the games more overpriced MCs, and a bazillion gants, your opponent gets to play target practice while you hope you spawn enough gant squads before the Tervs die to win a war of attrition against the opponents entire army shooting you every turn. Which, against anyone with a grain of sense, you won't. Even if time wasnt a factor, its a terrible concept for a list that didnt even work when Tervs were well priced, buffed gants, and could take 3 Biomancy Rolls + CrushinClaws, and didnt require and extra 500 pts wasted into Termagant tax. On top of that, its terribly unfun list to play for everyone and basically removes any premise of strategy from your tabletop strategy gaming session.
Marines OS is a gakload better than Nids, because they do it as a byproduct of a sensible list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/16 04:27:13
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
