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2014/11/30 00:59:37
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
WARNING: Pictures of models painted by me below. May cause nausea, blindness, explosive diarrhea, and loss of spine.
Spoiler:
As you can see, they suck compared to people's first models. Keep in mind my Steel Legion take about 30 minutes/models and my Celestial Guard take about 35.
Here is my full equipment list-
Testors Plastic Cement
Citadel Paints + Primer (Yes, yes, maximally gouged, I got it a month ago and it hasn't run out...)
Old Citadel clippers
Lowes files
Lowes hobby knife
Citadel brushes (cheapest high quality brushes I could find)
Random water pot I found in my desk (Tupperware container)
So, how do I not suck? Is it an equipment problem or am I just irredeemably terrible? I have 3 years of practice. People say they are tabletop (yes, I know it means "terribly painted) standard. Any techniques or equipment I need?
From looking at the models above, what am I missing?
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/11/30 01:09:08
Subject: Re:How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
There's an old joke that goes 'How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.' and it's really the truth. Paint as often as you can, study technique when you can't, and you'll get better. It's guaranteed. Don't be afraid to try new things and chuck things into the stripper dip when they don't work out. Be adventurous and you might surprise yourself, but you gotta put the time in.
2014/11/30 01:13:56
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Ok honestly they're not that bad - you're a little hard on yourself, but that's the enthusiasm to improve talking. You've got 80% of the fight down, and that is cleanly blocking colors to where they need to go. I've seen far worse with people that can't even "stay in the lines".
What I think will help boost your stuff to the next level are: 1) washes, and 2) hi lights. For example, the Steel Legion troopers, if you hit the leather brown boots with a dark brown wash, it will sit nicely in the creases and pop the details. Same for a black wash on top of all the lasrifles and weapons.
Now, after all of that has dried THOROUGHLY, you can hit the areas with hi lights, either carefully thine down or blend in with dry brushing. Like after the dark brown ink, hit the raised areas with like XV88 and you'll have some killer detailing. As for the weapons, after a black ink wash, go back and hit the raised areas with Blowgun or something, and profit!
The other piece of advice I can say is to thin your paints as you work, and build up the color with successive layers. It almost seems like you might have been too eager to get the color to cover in as few passes as possible (cuz I'm very guilty of the same thing). That may have given you a slightly unwanted texture all over.
The washes don't have to be severe, in fact for the white panels in the SM stuff just a glaze of a brown can do wonderers on the panels.
Now the edge hi lighting is up to you. It is totally optional, but can really bring out some definition. Now I'm not expert at all, but I am happy with my level of painting, and I tend to shoot for a more realistic level of edging than GW's school of super hot edges. In my own gallery, I started with Catachans and they are a lot rougher than the more recent Blood Angels I've painted....
1. Thin your paints, it seems like you are using citadel paints so take a look at how this guy thins his citadel paints. (I know some people say it's not good to thin the paints in the pots, but I think his results speaks for themselves)
2. As mentioned, use a wash to get some shadows on your figures, it will compleatly change how they look and you can easily get some really nice looking results.
3000 point
2014/11/30 01:49:43
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
The biggest things that helped me as I was figuring out how to paint were:
*Getting the citadel painting guide (there are MANY out there that I am sure are better, but it did help me)
*Lots of youtube videos showing how to paint the colors I wanted
*Lots of youtube videos showing how to paint the pieces I was painting (sometimes you can transfer ideas over)
*Looking at galleries, seeing what I liked, and figuring out what techniques were used (then youtubing said techniques)
*Paying attention to these forums and what advice was tossed around, and then youtubing how to make that advice (IE: someone says wetblend, I go "what is that?" and I find a few videos on it).
I stress videos because they demonstrate, they don't take up massive amounts of time. Ultimately, you just need to paint until YOU like how they look.
4500
2014/11/30 06:43:24
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Equipment really matters too. Inks are pretty much crucial to people who arent the rare few paint gods you occasionally see. Good quality paint and good brushes. After that it literally is just practice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looking at your pics, the painting quality isnt too bad. Your lines look clean and you havent got wrong colours all over the place. For the guardsmen, a wash on the clothing and weapons would improve it no end, then some built up highlights and you'd have a good standard painted model imo
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 08:34:46
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2014/11/30 11:51:44
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Firstly, you seem to be good at blocking your colours in and you also select nice palettes of colour for your models.
Choosing the right colours and putting them in the right places is very important, and is often a big part of why some 'first models' look so good.
I'm not very good at painting. I did spend many years being awful, not able to even get the colours within the lines so at least I have progressed!
The thing that helped me most was learning to pay attention to what happens when you do things. When things do what you want try to commit what you did to memory. When things go wrong, try and analyse what went wrong.
Take the tracks on your tank for example. Did you try using a technique similar to drybrushing? It seems you have streaks in areas where you probably don't want them?
This could have been caused by a few things;
1) was your brush was damp. When planning to drybrush you need the brush to be dry before you put your paint on it.
2) too much paint on the brush? when drybrushing you want to remove most the paint from the brush before you apply it to the model. This can be as simple as wiping it on a textured napkin a few times. Pay attention to the amount of paint that a stroke deposits on the napkin; depending on the texture you are wanting to paint you will want different amounts of paint.
3) are you applying the brush to the model with too much pressure? Most of the time when dry brushing I find the best way to apply the paint is to gently tickle the details with the brush. This will stop you accidently putting paint into the crevices as the brush will barely ever touch them. Another good way to drybrush straight edges is to just run the edge of the drybrush along the straight edge. This is almost a quick way to do an edge highlight if you struggle with brush control.
Edit: specific feedback:
Red: the purple is showing through here. Put down another layer of bone. Don't worry too much about thinning the paints for this as there is no detail to obscure and if you over thin the paint it will run into the crack.
Green:This corner seems to be chipped and needs some bone adding to make the model look tidier.
Blue:This silver bit would look better black as it is recessed compared to the aquilla. At the moment it looks like a smudge.
Purple: These parts of the treads are raised details and would look better silver to match the aquilla.
Pink: The golden eagle looks great against the purple, except you haven't quite finished painting some of the wing's feather tips. You'll have a crisper look if you are able to get these gold and manage to keep the gold off the armour plate.
I hope these tips help. To reiterate, the biggest problems at the moment are the purple showing through the bone and the messiness of the silver/black on the starboard tank track.
Have a go tidying these things up and it will look better.
I just noticed you have some areas where the bone has got into the recesses between colours (like between the bone/purple armour plates and between the bone armour plate and the tank tracks. This might look better if you use a fine detail brush with a small amount of Druchii Violet or Nuln Oil and let it flow into the crcks to darken them down a bit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 13:13:31
2014/11/30 14:14:13
Subject: Re:How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
OP, I just wanted to add that you don't suck. Every learning curve is different. I went to art school, have a BA, and have been painting for most of my adult life.
And my first year or so of models still looked dreadful. Interesting sidenote: painting minis has kept my eye for rendering the figure sharp.
\m/
2014/11/30 16:03:17
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
I think you're off to a good start actually. Painting takes time and practice and you seem to be doing pretty well. You can paint neatly and it looks decent, I would recommend looking into a few more advanced techniques on youtube, etc and seeing what happens.
At the moment it doesn't look like your minis have that much depth so I would look to use some inks or washes and find some tutorials on those.
2014/11/30 17:27:51
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
I know a lot of people have recommended practice. However, I believe that painting is a mental skill more than a physical one. So repetition won't help you much unless you are also learning. It is true that many people do learn through a long process of trial and error, but it would be more efficient for you to read a lot and watch videos so you become knowledgeable.
The next thing you need to do is learn patience, and build up your confidence by showing yourself what you are really capable of -- you might be pleasantly surprised. As an exercise, try picking out one of your miniatures (nothing too special) and plan to spend 1 whole week painting just that miniature No more, no less. Plan out what you are going to try to work on each day (For example: Tuesday: head, Wednesday: weapon, Thursday: base.) Look at pictures and tutorials and try to spend the whole session just working on that one small bit. Don't move on early. If you think you will be finished too quickly then try to take your time, or think of ways that you could make it more challenging so it fills up the whole session. For example: instead of just painting a sword silver, you could try to do NMM effect. You will be surprised how much your patience and your work improves when you are trying to fill time rather than save it.
At the end of the week you will be amazed by how good at painting you actually are when you take your time. That knowledge will give you confidence in your abilities and set a standard for you to work to.
You don't need to spend a week on every miniature of course. This is just an exercise that will teach you to paint well, and prove that you can. Getting fast at painting well will follow with time.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 18:51:27
2014/11/30 21:33:54
Subject: Re:How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Watch these videos, a lot of people bash GW but these tutorials are spot on for people who are looking to start from the basics and improve.
d-usa wrote:Orks are the GW version of R2D2. No matter how advanced the defenses may be, there is always an open serial port somewhere that can be pluged into and a firewall that was never configured.
2014/11/30 22:10:36
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Actually, your models aren't bad at all Like what other peeps have said, I think maybe you're a little hard on yourself
I think the biggest thing, really, is just to take it slow, be patient, and be attentive to crispness. A lot of people think the magic is all in the fancy details, blending, freehand and all that -- but frankly, a model will look awesome with very little effort if the *basecoat* is clean.
By that, I mean, all of your colors on the basecoat are opaque, all your edges are crisp, none of the paint is too thick anywhere, and the model is brushstroke free. Obviously, color choice is very important too. After you achieve that, it's only a short step to a very high tabletop standard (wash and edges). And from there, the leaping point to display models is easy to gain incrementally with practice.
2014/11/30 23:32:17
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Tutorials; http://www.how-to-paint-miniatures.com/ MANY online for free.
Glue; Plastruct; http://www.plastruct.com/pages/CementGuide.html will weld the plastic less cost than GW.
Gorilla Glue; http://www.gorillaglue.com/gorilla-super-glue-gel less cost than GW.
Any paints other than GW, if you want quality, Vallejo. I use Apple Barrel (and others) for most rank and file models, for 20+ years. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Apple-Barrel-Matte-Acrylic-Paint-2-oz/21778075 CHEAP, but you will need to thin them as needed.
Many are using a wet palette.
Buy a color Wheel, I like this one; http://www.michaels.com/pocket-color-wheel/10270171.html or google one to print out; http://graf1x.com/color-wheel/ .
Additionally;
Inexpensive Supplies
Ā
Tools (Purchased);
Dykes; or heavy-duty wire cutters; NOT Sprue-Cutters (sprue-cutters are expensive and will get damaged when trying to cut metal or wood). Example; http://www.xs11.com/forum/images/tips/20020902-floatpinremove.jpg Scissors; crappy or inexpensive, you are not a seamstress, so $1 ones will do fine when cutting stuff, if you need a more precise cut, you should probably invest in a straight cutting table or use a blade and metal ruler.
Metal Ruler; often called a Drafting ruler. Uses; guiding a straight cut, and measuring.
Hibachi skewers; (made of Bamboo) cost about $1 for a bag of 50 at local grocery store, great for spiky defenses, and etcā¦
Place-mat for dinner table; (made of Bamboo and other wood slat items) good for fences when cut.
Ā
Supplies (Found);
Wire Hangers; from the dry-cleaners. I prefer the plastic coated ones. (Cut-out the straight area and save). Then find a drill-bit the same size. Uses; pinning large items, axles on vehicles, BANNER-POLES, etc⦠Alternatively, LARGE paper-clips.
Broom (Old); (house/kitchen) with long Nylon bristles. Depending on stiffness can be used as Spears, Lances, Antenna arrays, poles, cabling, and etcā¦
Stir-Sticks; wood, (NOT Popsicle, they are treated and can have a to-finished look). From Starbucks for free with a cup-o-Joe or a box from Smart and Final for about $5. Uses; as wood, for everything wood; floors, bridges, fences, and etcā¦
Cereal Box Cardboard; Save the front and back of the Cereal-box or GW box, etc. the cardboard is treated and very solid. Uses, a VERY inexpensive substitute for plastic-card.
Rocks and Gravel; from your neighborās driveway (I Keed, I keed) Uses; boulders, and etcā¦
Old Toys; from your closet, from a yard-sale, and etc. Uses; BITZ for Orky stuff, rubble terrain, machinery, and etcā¦
Chopsticks; (fast food for free) Uses; large wood poles, fencing, supports, and etcā¦
Wrapping paper rolls; (thicker ones) Pringles can, oatmeal can, etc.
Telephone DSL Cabling (wires); they have 4-12 different colored wires inside
Pennies (or nickels fit ROUND base weights perfectly;Ā if you are rich lol); (note; I have tried the washer and slug idea, trying to find the right size and driving around is not worth the penny, or the nickel) Alternatively, they can be cut in two (just off-center) to fit in the underside of the slotted-bases.
Ok, looking at your models;
.
Try "dry-brushing"
If I prime black, which I do for darker colors (I prime gray for lighter colors, and never prime white any longer, as most models are dark) here is a primed black, then dry-brushed gray Bane-Blade, note all the detail POPS up, so my old eyes can see it,, lol... http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/252267-Fortress%20of%20Arrogance.html .
So, your purple models, I would dry-brush the entire model a lighter purple, or even lavender (test on plastic empty model frames) first, then add the second color, note if second color is very light, then sometimes you need to put a grey or white coat down first. Then I would wash, after the dry-brush.
.
Learn to thin your paints
Now get painting!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 12:53:49
2014/12/01 01:26:04
Subject: Re:How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
They don't look bad at all. They look unfinished. As said many other times -- get some washes, do some edge highlighting, and thin your paints more and you will very much see some great results.
What has helped me: Ask questions on the board, seek pointers from the painting and modelling vets here. This is the most valuable tool I've acquired yet!
2014/12/01 02:44:17
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
There is a much easier answer to how to not suck at painting - just don't do it. Paint should only be applied to models that will be on the table after turn 1. As there's no guarantee that any model will be around after turn 1so....
2014/12/01 02:54:01
Subject: Re:How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
OP, at worst I can say your painting is good "block painting".
It is thick so it could stand to be watered down.
Shading and edge highlights are the next stage.
Ensure small dustings of primer 2-3 thin layers rather than one thick coat.
The rest as others state is "practice" and reading up on other's methods.
What you have done now is worthy to get on the table and play.
Too many others are content with bare plastic or just primed so I commend your efforts.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/12/01 03:04:30
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
sarcastro01 wrote: There is a much easier answer to how to not suck at painting - just don't do it. Paint should only be applied to models that will be on the table after turn 1. As there's no guarantee that any model will be around after turn 1so....
There is no excuse to play an unpainted model.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/12/01 04:03:30
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
They aren't that bad really. Like others said. Maybe thin your paints a little. A wash and some simple highlights would make them look much better.
Something that helps me get better: I copy the pros . Since I paint infinity models I often use the Angel Giraldez's pics as a reference. He's the official Infinity painter and I love his stuff. I'm still kinda new to painting so his pics help me pick out some spots I may miss to highlight. It also gives you a reference to what areas you are doing right/wrong until you're comfortable to strike out on your own.
Also for 30mins/model that's alright. I mean, I take several hours to paint one model of mine :(
I agree to what the others said and would like to point out that the following things would probably improve your minis most with few work:
Where you have dark colours (e.g. with the dark blue on the marines in front of the tank) use an additional layer of lighter blue and let the dark blue still show at the corners and in recesses. Then wash it with a dark blue or black and use the lighter blue again to refresh the elevated areas. Finally use the very light blue and highlight edges. This is not much work, quickly done and does not need too much skill. Still it will improve your result a lot.
You don't need a lot of colours for this, it would be enough to have the darkest blue and a white. Just use the pure dark blue for the base layer and add white for your lighter tone. Then, for the highlights, just add even more white. In fact this guarantees that your shades of blue match. Sometimes people combine ready-to-use shades that do not really match, which will look worse than your mixed shades.
Do not be afraid of strong brightness contrasts, just try it and correct it if you've overdone it. But if you look at good examples for minis in detail you can often see that people use strong brightness contrasts to bring out the details.
My armies:
Eldar Necron Chaos Space Marines Grey Knights Imperial Knights Death Guard
2014/12/01 12:52:33
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
Ok, looking at your models;
.
Try "dry-brushing"
If I prime black, which I do for darker colors (I prime gray for lighter colors, and never prime white any longer, as most models are dark) here is a primed black, then dry-brushed gray Bane-Blade, note all the detail POPS up, so my old eyes can see it,, lol... http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/252267-Fortress%20of%20Arrogance.html .
So, your purple models, I would dry-brush the entire model a lighter purple, or even lavender (test on plastic empty model frames) first, then add the second and third colors, note if second color is very light, then sometimes you need to put a grey or white coat down first. Then I would wash, after the dry-brush.
.
Learn how to thin your paints.
2014/12/01 13:27:49
Subject: How Can I Not Suck at Painting & Modelling?
If your painting isn't awesome+ level and you're not using washes, the single biggest improvement you can get is to start using washes.
The second one would be learning to dry brush properly. Dry brushing is gak if you're going for the best result ever, but it's a very effective and efficient way to get things done. Get paint on your brush, brush it off on paper towels, let it rest, then brush. Use a crappy brush or GW's own shortened brush for drybrushing.
Also, if you're really intending to get better, buy the real kit. Use a Raphaƫl 8404 or a W&N series 7, the better tools help you learn faster.
And don't read / watch too much, you just need to learn one thing at a time, and right now that is washing.