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Which is the best lord of war choice for a Daemons primary army?

For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

changemod wrote:
For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

He can't be taken in any game under 4k points though.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

 grendel083 wrote:

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

Yes, but that's extremely meta-dependent. I can't even get a game with my Pylon and it's very restrained for a LoW now that it can't cancel Skyfire.

I've no first hand experience admittedly, but the Greater Brass Scorpion strikes me as a massive handful, it's like a Knight on steroids.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've no first hand experience admittedly, but the Greater Brass Scorpion strikes me as a massive handful, it's like a Knight on steroids.

I fielded a scratchbuilt one as an experiment once. It's optimal for taking on anything smaller than it is, anything with a D-strength weapon will eat it alive so it's best to avoid other superheavies with it.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've no first hand experience admittedly, but the Greater Brass Scorpion strikes me as a massive handful, it's like a Knight on steroids.

I fielded a scratchbuilt one as an experiment once. It's optimal for taking on anything smaller than it is, anything with a D-strength weapon will eat it alive so it's best to avoid other superheavies with it.

They have D interactions with Superheavy Durability wrong, honestly. You can't have a real Superheavy Duel because the majority of D-weilding units can kill one another in one turn, removing all chance to fight back.

Anyway yeah, Daemons specifically don't have a huge list of Superheavies. Maybe try checking out Chaos in general for something thematically fitting?

 grendel083 wrote:

changemod wrote:
For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

He can't be taken in any game under 4k points though.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

Are you referencing fantasy for that restriction? 40k has no such points limit rule. You could take any of the Daemon Lords in a 1500 point game if you so desired (though that wouldn't be very nice to do)


Personally, I like An'ggrath (because Blood For The Blood God) but also because he is an unkillable beat-stick. If you doubt me, try to kill it. In combat, it literally has no equal. A crapton of grey knight force weapons are probably the only thing that would stand a chance to kill him, but he's taking a 2+ armor. Maybe using Draigo as basically a "hidden power fist" type thing. But really, he will delete a unit a turn, more or less.

luke1705 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

changemod wrote:
For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

He can't be taken in any game under 4k points though.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

Are you referencing fantasy for that restriction? 40k has no such points limit rule. You could take any of the Daemon Lords in a 1500 point game if you so desired (though that wouldn't be very nice to do)


Personally, I like An'ggrath (because Blood For The Blood God) but also because he is an unkillable beat-stick. If you doubt me, try to kill it. In combat, it literally has no equal. A crapton of grey knight force weapons are probably the only thing that would stand a chance to kill him, but he's taking a 2+ armor. Maybe using Draigo as basically a "hidden power fist" type thing. But really, he will delete a unit a turn, more or less.

The problem with An'ggrath is that his output is just too little. He works well when going up against the more elite armies, but he'll never make his points back against MSU builds or flyer builds. Against MSU, he'll be killing 50-70 units only and he'd probably have 3 or 4 turns to do so. Against flyer-heavy armies like flyrant-spam bugs, FMC daemons or even the Necron Airforce, he won't be doing much.

And then you've got shenanigans like mindshackle scarabs, Invisibility and screening/tarpitting tactics that will stop him in his tracks.

At the high range, I'd go with Aetaos. At the low range, the brass scorpion isn't so bad if you bring Be'lakor into your army. With Invisibility, it has a better chance at killing other super-heavies than vice-versa.

luke1705 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

changemod wrote:
For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

He can't be taken in any game under 4k points though.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

Are you referencing fantasy for that restriction? 40k has no such points limit rule. You could take any of the Daemon Lords in a 1500 point game if you so desired (though that wouldn't be very nice to do)


Personally, I like An'ggrath (because Blood For The Blood God) but also because he is an unkillable beat-stick. If you doubt me, try to kill it. In combat, it literally has no equal. A crapton of grey knight force weapons are probably the only thing that would stand a chance to kill him, but he's taking a 2+ armor. Maybe using Draigo as basically a "hidden power fist" type thing. But really, he will delete a unit a turn, more or less.

With IA13 there now is a 25% restriction on the daemon lords

Uraka the Warfiend is surprisingly inexpensive for what he can do. 5 attacks with decapitating blow gives you a good shot at instant death.

An'ggrath is still the best LOW choice out there. I know you need to play a 3600+ point battle to use him, but he will destroy a lot of things before your opponent can take him down.

Check that: Uraka is an HQ not LoW.

luke1705 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

changemod wrote:
For maximum impact, Aetaos'rau'keres.

He can't be taken in any game under 4k points though.

For likelihood to be let into an Escalation game rather than outright apocalypse, probably the Brass Scorpion? Though honestly there's no 400-500 point option so none of them are suited to Escalation.

Standard 40k has LoW slots, no need for it to be an Escalation game. Those are now specifically just using the Escalation missions found in the Escalation book.

Are you referencing fantasy for that restriction? 40k has no such points limit rule. You could take any of the Daemon Lords in a 1500 point game if you so desired (though that wouldn't be very nice to do)

Personally, I like An'ggrath (because Blood For The Blood God) but also because he is an unkillable beat-stick. If you doubt me, try to kill it. In combat, it literally has no equal. A crapton of grey knight force weapons are probably the only thing that would stand a chance to kill him, but he's taking a 2+ armor. Maybe using Draigo as basically a "hidden power fist" type thing. But really, he will delete a unit a turn, more or less.

No I'm not referencing Fantasy

His most up to date rules are found in IA:13 where they have imposed a restriction where he (and the other Big Daemons) can't take up more than 25% of your total army cost.

Really? I mean you've got the book and I don't so I believe you, but are you sure that's not specific to one type of army (for example isn't this book for chaos space marines, whereas the big baddies are usually LOW for a Daemons army). I could see there being the need for a large CSM presence to grab one of these bad boys, but it just seems very anti-GW to impose restrictions on what you can and can't bring in a normal game of 40k, especially with the advent of seventh edition where I could find a way to (in a battle-forged army) bring both a 1,000 point Hierophant AND a 735 point Harridan. And that's not even touching unbound, where pretty much all restrictions go out the window

luke1705 wrote:
Really? I mean you've got the book and I don't so I believe you, but are you sure that's not specific to one type of army (for example isn't this book for chaos space marines, whereas the big baddies are usually LOW for a Daemons army). I could see there being the need for a large CSM presence to grab one of these bad boys, but it just seems very anti-GW to impose restrictions on what you can and can't bring in a normal game of 40k, especially with the advent of seventh edition where I could find a way to (in a battle-forged army) bring both a 1,000 point Hierophant AND a 735 point Harridan. And that's not even touching unbound, where pretty much all restrictions go out the window

No this is not a army specific restriction. this is a general rule for all four Daemon Lords

luke1705 wrote:
for example isn't this book for chaos space marines, whereas the big baddies are usually LOW for a Daemons army

The Book isn't just for CSM, it also covers Chaos Renegades (mostly) and Daemons.

The Big Daemons are LoW's for Daemon armies, not CSM armies (You need a Chaos Daemon Primary just to field them - Not detachment, specificly Primary).

That is really strange, given that this restriction pops up literally for no other model in any other army that I'm aware of. To me, this might herald a change for all of 40k, which honestly would be a good thing I think (or at least one less thing TOs would have to house rule). I'm surprised it got so swept under the rug, as this rule is probably one of the ones with the biggest implications for the game overall, that they are implementing it at all

Don't get excited, it's more likely FW doing things right while GW run around like a bunch of 8 year olds on Red Bull and sherbert.

If you've ever gone against that giant Tzeentch Bird in a 1.5k point game, you'll welcome this change with open arms!

Ain't Zarakynel aan excellent one? I was told it to be pretty killy and have good survival capabilities.

 grendel083 wrote:
If you've ever gone against that giant Tzeentch Bird in a 1.5k point game, you'll welcome this change with open arms!

Sounds fun, actually.

I'd take a Pylon, which needs only one 6 result on the D table to kill it, and hold it in reserve.

My opponent now must choose between flying and being open to the full skyfirey wrath of the D, or landing and getting swarmed by cheap fast, fearless assault swarms with shred and rending. That's plenty to force a few saves per round.

Not that he doesn't have a lot of ways to fight back. It'd be an interesting duel.

Fortunately for Tyranids that they don't have the same restrictions for their Lords of War, even though FW recently re-released the Imperial Armor Anphelion Project.

changemod wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
If you've ever gone against that giant Tzeentch Bird in a 1.5k point game, you'll welcome this change with open arms!

Sounds fun, actually.

I'd take a Pylon, which needs only one 6 result on the D table to kill it, and hold it in reserve.

My opponent now must choose between flying and being open to the full skyfirey wrath of the D, or landing and getting swarmed by cheap fast, fearless assault swarms with shred and rending. That's plenty to force a few saves per round.

Not that he doesn't have a lot of ways to fight back. It'd be an interesting duel.

A pylon could do it. Needs 6's and you'll likely get one chance. If you tailor your list, then he can be taken down. But not every army can do it. And with the rule changes to Interceptor the Pylon is not that uselfull anymore except in this case. Not the sort of thing you take normally.

And the changes to Grounding, Psychic powers, and the addition of summoning have made that Giant Bird go from ridiculous to outright insane.

I would put my money on the brass scorpion. It is faster as all sin, can do a turn 1 charge, and has enough stomps to get out of any tarpit.

It's also causes perils on any spell that looks at it, which hits tyranids hard, and jacks with any nova powers near it. The guns are pretty swell too.

Oh, and when it dies, it will most likely give you the strongest explosion, which is nice.

The Lords of War accessible to Daemons, if such are usable, can be used to fill gaps the rest of your force may not be able to cover. If you need a big punchy killy thing, take An'ggrath and he'll basically kill a unit a turn and your opponent won't be able to put him down (Note that's a quick way to lose friends if you're bringing him outside an Apoc game).

As noted, the Greater Brass Scorpion is also a good choice, lots of heavy hitting close range shooting backed up by fearsome CC while being hard to kill but not quite the gigantic "**** you" that An'ggrath is. Probably the best "all-rounder" to take for a "normal" game that won't get you punched in the face.

Aetaos'rau'keres (the big Tzeentch guy) is exceedingly powerful, but kinda awkward as well, he's another one that people won't look kindly on because he can Swoop around and blast things to pieces with apocalyptic barrage shooting attacks on top of being an insanely powerful psyker. He's also 2/3rds of a 1500pt army.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Lords of War accessible to Daemons, if such are usable, can be used to fill gaps the rest of your force may not be able to cover. If you need a big punchy killy thing, take An'ggrath and he'll basically kill a unit a turn and your opponent won't be able to put him down (Note that's a quick way to lose friends if you're bringing him outside an Apoc game).

As noted, the Greater Brass Scorpion is also a good choice, lots of heavy hitting close range shooting backed up by fearsome CC while being hard to kill but not quite the gigantic "**** you" that An'ggrath is. Probably the best "all-rounder" to take for a "normal" game that won't get you punched in the face.

Aetaos'rau'keres (the big Tzeentch guy) is exceedingly powerful, but kinda awkward as well, he's another one that people won't look kindly on because he can Swoop around and blast things to pieces with apocalyptic barrage shooting attacks on top of being an insanely powerful psyker. He's also 2/3rds of a 1500pt army.

Only thing is, I thought he had to be stationary to use his apoc barrage staff. Given that it has infinite range, he's still very much a dick.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Aetaos'rau'keres (the big Tzeentch guy) is exceedingly powerful, but kinda awkward as well, he's another one that people won't look kindly on because he can Swoop around and blast things to pieces with apocalyptic barrage shooting attacks on top of being an insanely powerful psyker. He's also 2/3rds of a 1500pt army.

And as noted before, now illegal in a 1500pt army.

And, to add even more bad news to Daemon players..... They made the Greater Brass Scorpion a Chaos Space Marine unit, it's no longer an option for Chaos Daemon Detachments (if you want one, you'll need to bring some chaos marines). See IA:13

That's the case at the moment, I'd be quite surprised if that remains the case, it'll probably be 3 months or more before we get any sort of response though.

Angron is always awesome, for those who don't know: https://web.archive.org/web/20120211075717/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2110495_The_Battle_for_Armageddon

Basically, he's a 500 point buffed bloodthirster with an instadeath sword, and he runs 2-12 bloodthirsters as his bodyguards (making him 1000 points minimum). And any sized army can run him Anything he charges will die no matter what, the turn just depends on how many bloodthirsters you brought.

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:
Angron is always awesome, for those who don't know: https://web.archive.org/web/20120211075717/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2110495_The_Battle_for_Armageddon

Basically, he's a 500 point buffed bloodthirster with an instadeath sword, and he runs 2-12 bloodthirsters as his bodyguards (making him 1000 points minimum). And any sized army can run him Anything he charges will die no matter what, the turn just depends on how many bloodthirsters you brought.

This is only for apocolypse

Not to mention the fact he very outdated as he was written for last daemon codex. Such as there is no longer a daemonic gift called Iron Hide so he only has the 4+ armor save written in his profile

 The Internet is for Khorn wrote:
Angron is always awesome, for those who don't know: https://web.archive.org/web/20120211075717/http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2110495_The_Battle_for_Armageddon

Anything he charges will die no matter what, the turn just depends on how many bloodthirsters you brought.

I bet he won't be able to kill invisible fearless cultists before the game ends.