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Are the Tempestus Scions of the Militarium Tempestus basically storm troopers? They're both elite troops, but not the superhuman Astartes. Please let me know what you think!

They are exactly the same thing. "Tempestus Scions" is simply the new, High Gothic word for "Stormtrooper".

Oh ok, just making some quick edits to the wiki and I wasn't sure about that. Thanks

 Psienesis wrote:
They are exactly the same thing. "Tempestus Scions" is simply the new, High Gothic word for "Stormtrooper".

It sounds fething stupid.

Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers were fine.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
They are exactly the same thing. "Tempestus Scions" is simply the new, High Gothic word for "Stormtrooper".

It sounds fething stupid.

Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers were fine.

But one is far more Copyrightable than the other.

Hence the name changes.

They're the same thing in either case. Call them what you want to call them. It's just like Adeptus Astartes (Space Marines) or Adeptus Sororitas (Sisters of Battle). It's their High Gothic name to go along with their English name, not a retcon or rename. I don't get why people get so huffy about it.

Also, consider this - Disney now owns Star Wars and are well known to love suing people for infringement.

Would YOU be brave enough to continue selling "Imperial Stormtroopers"?

Thing is, though, there was never an issue with copyright.

Star Wars uses the single word: Stormtroopers, 40K uses two: Storm Troopers.

Besides, Disney have no right or claim on the terms "Imperial", "Stormtroopers" or "Imperial Stormtroopers". They have existed in real world warfare for centuries.

This is all assuming that Disney has a copyright on "Imperial Stormtrooper".

I'm sure the Stormtroopers of the Imperial German Army of the First World War probably have prior art in any IP dispute and render any such lawsuit fruitless very quickly.


That said, the new name is awful, and the fluff in the book amongst the worst GW has ever produced, in some parts reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

I loved the old stormtrooper aesthetic. I like te scions model and fluff wise fine enough, but I still prefer the old models.

With the retcon, I've just refluffled the stormtroopers into into elite light infantry within my own guard regt so that I can still call them stormtroopers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
This is all assuming that Disney has a copyright on "Imperial Stormtrooper".

I'm sure the Stormtroopers of the Imperial German Army of the First World War probably have prior art in any IP dispute and render any such lawsuit fruitless very quickly.


That said, the new name is awful, and the fluff in the book amongst the worst GW has ever produced, in some parts reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

It's not that GW was worried about being sued by Disney or the Imperial German Sturmtruppen, but that they want to be able to control the name and sue other people. Hence the name change from the common, and uncopyrightable, Stormtrooper to their own created name. Just like it's no longer officially "Imperial Guard" but "Astra Militarum" which is terrible.

This is the same company that's tried to copyright/trademark "Space Marine" and "Eldar" (despite....borrowing....both names themselves).

Yup, and the same reason they redid their entire paintline (on top of one-time sales bump for the shareholder report when all their retailers and stores had to buy a whole new set of paints) to GW tailored names :(

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yup, and the same reason they redid their entire paintline (on top of one-time sales bump for the shareholder report when all their retailers and stores had to buy a whole new set of paints) to GW tailored names :(

Hilariously enough though, Ultramarine Blue is an actual shade of blue.

 Vaktathi wrote:
reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

Whaaat?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

Whaaat?

Have you read the Tempestus Scions Codex?

It's a crude way of putting it, but somewhat apt. The Scholaium or whatever the faux latin name is is basically Murder Hogwarts. Or I suppose, a more violent version of Hogwarts where you graduate by going murder-hobo on your best friend.

 Darth Bob wrote:
They're the same thing in either case. Call them what you want to call them. It's just like Adeptus Astartes (Space Marines) or Adeptus Sororitas (Sisters of Battle). It's their High Gothic name to go along with their English name, not a retcon or rename. I don't get why people get so huffy about it.

Cause it's another opportunity to rant.

I'm pretty sure the fluff explicitly states that their low gothic name is still Storm Troopers and Imperial Guard (positive about the latter, at least). I could be wrong about the former. *shrug*

Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yup, and the same reason they redid their entire paintline (on top of one-time sales bump for the shareholder report when all their retailers and stores had to buy a whole new set of paints) to GW tailored names :(

Hilariously enough though, Ultramarine Blue is an actual shade of blue.

True enough.

Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

Whaaat?

As Wyzilla noted, it's basically murder-hogwarts, they talk about kids being "released into hunting grounds" for other students to kill if they aren't able to conform to the Schola life, instructors killing students with hammers if they disobey, a story of how one schola built walls out of living students, mixing them with the ferrocrete when they rebelled, potential commissars being ordered to kill their closest comrades and other capable students just to prove they'll follow mindless orders, etc.

All of course while hamfisting in the new "officio prefectus" stuff and other new random faux-latin gibberish.

It's *really* bad.


Despite wanting to have a Stormtrooper army book for many years, it's quite possibly the worst fluff that GW has ever produced. Worse even than Ward's 5E absurdities.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yup, and the same reason they redid their entire paintline (on top of one-time sales bump for the shareholder report when all their retailers and stores had to buy a whole new set of paints) to GW tailored names :(

Hilariously enough though, Ultramarine Blue is an actual shade of blue.

True enough.

Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

Whaaat?

As Wyzilla noted, it's basically murder-hogwarts, they talk about kids being "released into hunting grounds" for other students to kill if they aren't able to conform to the Schola life, instructors killing students with hammers if they disobey, a story of how one schola built walls out of living students, mixing them with the ferrocrete when they rebelled, potential commissars being ordered to kill their closest comrades and other capable students just to prove they'll follow mindless orders, etc.

All of course while hamfisting in the new "officio prefectus" stuff and other new random faux-latin gibberish.

It's *really* bad.


Despite wanting to have a Stormtrooper army book for many years, it's quite possibly the worst fluff that GW has ever produced. Worse even than Ward's 5E absurdities.

Especially considering that the Schola, which teaches its students individualism and to not give a damn about anyone other than the Emperor ultimately, is about the worst way you can go about raising any military force.

Ah, fantasy writers and the Spartan method of training soldiers. What a wonderful mix they make.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yup, and the same reason they redid their entire paintline (on top of one-time sales bump for the shareholder report when all their retailers and stores had to buy a whole new set of paints) to GW tailored names :(

Hilariously enough though, Ultramarine Blue is an actual shade of blue.

True enough.

Ashiraya wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
reading like Harry Potter torture porn with heaps of awful faux-latin hamfisted into all sorts of unnecessary places.

Whaaat?

As Wyzilla noted, it's basically murder-hogwarts, they talk about kids being "released into hunting grounds" for other students to kill if they aren't able to conform to the Schola life, instructors killing students with hammers if they disobey, a story of how one schola built walls out of living students, mixing them with the ferrocrete when they rebelled, potential commissars being ordered to kill their closest comrades and other capable students just to prove they'll follow mindless orders, etc.

All of course while hamfisting in the new "officio prefectus" stuff and other new random faux-latin gibberish.

It's *really* bad.


Despite wanting to have a Stormtrooper army book for many years, it's quite possibly the worst fluff that GW has ever produced. Worse even than Ward's 5E absurdities.

Who the hell wrote this crap? How does that jive in any way with what was known about the Schola prior to this.... thing?

 Jaxies wrote:
Are the Tempestus Scions of the Militarium Tempestus basically storm troopers? They're both elite troops, but not the superhuman Astartes. Please let me know what you think!

"Tempestus Scion" is High Gothic for "Storm Trooper" they are just two different ways of saying the same thing.

They've stopped attributing authorship of books recently to anything but the "Games Workshop Design Studio".

And it doesn't jive at all

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

Who the hell wrote this crap? How does that jive in any way with what was known about the Schola prior to this.... thing?

To be fair that's what the Schola Progenium has always been: a hellish place where privileged brats became unbreakable warriors. Although now that there's a new brainwashing aspect to it, it became quite difficult to figure out what part of their memories are wiped and what isn't (if it is even possible in-universe).

There are these two twins, one came out a commissar and another a scion. IRRC they seem to know they are brothers. So why have a mind-wipe when they don't even explain how that works?

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

Who the hell wrote this crap? How does that jive in any way with what was known about the Schola prior to this.... thing?

To be fair that's what the Schola Progenium has always been: a hellish place where privileged brats became unbreakable warriors. Although now that there's a new brainwashing aspect to it, it became quite difficult to figure out what part of their memories are wiped and what isn't (if it is even possible in-universe).

There are these two twins, one came out a commissar and another a scion. IRRC they seem to know they are brothers. So why have a mind-wipe when they don't even explain how that works?

The Schola isn't just for privileged brats, it's the state orphanage. Any orphan whose parents were killed in the line of duty can and are sent to the Schola. That means a lot of low class citizens get sent for training there. I'd imagine most of the Stormtroopers are from the lower class, since upper class people would probably have facilities in place to care for the rich kids whose daddy General died of a fever. Meanwhile, sergeant dead-dad and Lieutenant-abandoned mom leave their children to the state.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:


To be fair that's what the Schola Progenium has always been: a hellish place where privileged brats became unbreakable warriors. Although now that there's a new brainwashing aspect to it, it became quite difficult to figure out what part of their memories are wiped and what isn't (if it is even possible in-universe).

There are these two twins, one came out a commissar and another a scion. IRRC they seem to know they are brothers. So why have a mind-wipe when they don't even explain how that works?

The Schola isn't just for privileged brats, it's the state orphanage. Any orphan whose parents were killed in the line of duty can and are sent to the Schola. That means a lot of low class citizens get sent for training there. I'd imagine most of the Stormtroopers are from the lower class, since upper class people would probably have facilities in place to care for the rich kids whose daddy General died of a fever. Meanwhile, sergeant dead-dad and Lieutenant-abandoned mom leave their children to the state.

Look, I'm all for building your own narrative and so on, but that's just not gonna fit in the official materials.

The Shola Progenium is designed to homogenise, break and rebuild the orphaned sons and daughters of the imperial elite.
-- Codex: Militarum Tempestus. Games-Workshop. 2014. Print. P10

Perhaps the most famous Missions are the Schola Progenium, orphanages established to train the children of those Imperial officials who have given their lives in service.
-- Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook. 6th Edition. Print. P159

Although it is true that Inquisitors and very important imperial officials can request individuals be granted "unconventional entry" to the Schola Progenium. But ordinary orphans are not allowed in the Schola Progenium's facilities excepting in those situations.

Also Karskins (at least I think that's how it's spelled) are Cadian vets from each Kars that are trained to their finest, and for intention of being shocktroopers, are equilvenlent to Stormtroopers (Tempestus Scions), but they don't have to be orphaned nor of noble birth.

Edit: a better, more direct quote found; replace the second quote

It's important to remember that there are a lot of people in the Imperium, so these numbers aren't as ridiculous as they sound at first glance.

A single Hive World could supply enough recruits for every Space Marine Chapter in existence, and probably not even feel the pinch of the loss.

If the Schola is simply a network of orphanages for the children of the elite and heroes of the Imperium, that's still potentially a lot of children. The orphans of the lower class become factorum workers or slave away in the bellies of massive starships.

The Storm trooper concept has gone through plenty of revisions and modifications over editions, but there's no reason that you can't have storm troopers and Scions still existing (The same way you can still have Kasrkin and other 'Grenadier' types, which clearly have not vanished off the face of the earth.) One possibility being that the old 'Storm troopers' are now Inquisitorial soldiers and they are just called storm troopers (There could also be guard regiments that are called 'storm troopers' as well, one of the myriad and numberless variations on regimental type. There are Grenadier regiments mentioned as well, after all.)

The Ork codex, which came out after the whole Guard renaming abomination (I do still cringe whenever I see "Astra Militabalblah") references, specifically, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, which were always a distinct entity in the fluff, and evidently still are.

I absolutely abhor the name change and ignore it whenever I can, as unlike Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas and whatnot, these names have no precedent; they made them up on the fly and crammed them in. At least with the Guard, the actual written material still says "Imperial Guard" everywhere, with nary a mention of the new name aside from the cover and rules of the codex, but on the other hand, Militarum Tempestus Scions lead by their Tempestor primes (Bleargh) and the Officio Praefectus are thrown in everywhere, and it sounds awkward and juvenile, being bad, literal translations into Latin or complete inventions on the spot.

Even the recent Armaggedon PC game refers to Commissars as belonging to the "Officio Praefectus" not the Commissariat, you know, an actual term which refers to an organization of Commissars.

At the end of the day, I enjoy 40k for the setting, but the more hamfisted and stupid, rather than merely over the top they make things, the more I lose my appetite for the whole affair. Cthulhu knows I'm not playing it for the well-designed ruleset.

Never really got the big deal over the not really name changes, i still call them Storm Troopers and the Imperial Guard, in the same way i still call Carcharadons, Space Sharks.

I don't really mind if GW rebrands them in a minor way to help sell or copyright them more.