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Now I know there have been many threads and pages of discussions about this since its creation and addition to 40k, but how about a poll to test the waters and get a sample of the general Dakka 40k populace?

So what does everyone think? And let's keep it civil...






(unless it's already been done and I just don't know to search )

 BladeTX wrote:
(unless it's already been done and I just don't know to search )

"Already been done" might be the understatement of the decade in this case.

As for my opinion, they're official GW rules. Refusing to play against them just because you don't like the logo GW put on the cover is TFG behavior.

Well, it's not like they make the game any more unbalanced, confusing, or bloated than the main game already manages to be.

To that end, yeah I'm fine with them. Always have been.

Forge World has some fine looking models that I would love to paint. I've been fortunate enough to have friends with larger wallets that have allowed me to paint some of that sweet resin ambrosia, but sadly I have yet to call one my own. All rules aside, I love how they look on the tabletop and if you have good people, and some good drink, I'm sure that will be enough.

 Peregrine wrote:
"Already been done" might be the understatement of the decade in this case.

Oh, alright then. I just couldn't find an actual poll(s) about it.

I for one love the FW models as your everyday SM player, but I can definitely see other race fans disagreeing with their use because they clearly show more love to marines in a big way. So, to that end, it gives them more options and units to fight with, which could put them over the competitive

edge... or does it simply allow marines to be competitive in the first place?

I have no issue with them. Perhaps its because I have serveral under my command, mostly being FW SH tanks but the other units like the Annihilator Russ which I find fun are also part of my army.

They have quirks the other tanks and troops don't have but are not bad in any way. I had my chimera loaded with a Autocannon (something only found on FW chimeras) and it wrecked orks but otherwise the only "special thing" it had was a different main gun from the standard line up.

I have yet to encounter other FW weapons that were not my own in any large numbers. So far I have only gone head to head with 30k Space marine equipment like the Spartan or other Land Raiders in a single Apoc game last year but my Shadowswords cracked them open.

So I would be fine to see other FW weapons. I plan on building a Bursta Tank for a friend of mine who requested a Ork Super Heavy. He wanted a battle fortress but with the supplised I have I found a D weapon toting uber tank that can still carry orks around like a transport would be a better idea.

Those who doesn't like FW are those guys who bring a knife in a gun fight.

How much do most forgeworld units cost points wise? Like a titan or something

 Great White wrote:
How much do most forgeworld units cost points wise? Like a titan or something

How long is a piece of string?


Forgeworld make a wide range of different models for a whole bunch of different armies.

 Great White wrote:
How much do most forgeworld units cost points wise? Like a titan or something

There are many many FW units. All wildly varying points. Titans down the lowest mechanicum thrall.

Well how much does a warhound cost then?

 Great White wrote:
Well how much does a warhound cost then?

720pts for the imperial variant

730pts for the chaos variant.


Also the cheapest titan outside of knights belongs to the Orks. But your more powerful titans stretch into the 1000 point range on their own and some in the 2000 point range. There are also some forgeworld super-heavy aircraft that approach this price points wise as well.


But as to the original question, forrgeworld is necessary in some cases. If you ban it from the table, quite a few armies would be at a major disadvantage as far as Super-Heavies, Lords of War and unique representation goes.

Oh wow that's a lot

three years ago I predicted that in 5 years we would all wonder why people were so bent out of shape about including Forge World models/rules in their games.

I think we are getting there a lot quicker than I originally expected.

We have played with FW rules and models for at least the last 6 years and have never looked back.

My Reaver titan is like nearly 2k points or something.

I have yet to use it, but unbound only makes it easier now days.

My arch enemy Eldar player fields his revenant titan often and im fairly sure thats verging on 1k points.

But then there are units like my humble Malcador defender that cost 300 points or so. Then there are FW models that use standard rules (like my leman russ variants and hell hound).

Like GW, FW has heaps of models so its usually better to assume you cant use it until you have asked. 99% of people wont mind unless they have a lack of info on FW units usually.

To me, it seems the people who don't like Forge world are those who refuse to understand Forge world or grasp the concept.

Forgeworld is no different than a GW supplement.

Some people refuse to play forgeworld because to them it's not really GW, if it's not in the codex then it's not part of the game.

Therefore in their view I would assume the waaagh supplement is illegal too.

Forgeworld makes the game better. I don't think their models are OP, they're just different.

Is it OP to bring a Felblade to an appropriate points game if your opponent has a C'Tan or a Lord of Skulls?

Or a Spartan against 3 riptides?

Don't be a butt about it? Let your opponent know you plan on using some FW things and if they are obviously uncomfortable with it don't. I bring multiple lists with me where ever I go to game.

Expect to not be everyone's best friend when you use em (jealousy, WAAC or just close mindedness about the expansion to the hobby) but creating a hostile play environment with high tensions is never a good way to play.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
To me, it seems the people who don't like Forge world are those who refuse to understand Forge world or grasp the concept.

There are a bunch of different reasons for people not approving of Forgeworld. Not viewing them as 'official' is only one of them.

The argument against forgeworld in a nutshell.

"I haven't read the Dark Eldar codex, so you can't play Dark Eldar."
"I don't own a copy of that Tyranid Supplement. You can't play it."

It is the EXACT same thing.

 Pyeatt wrote:
The argument against forgeworld in a nutshell.

"I haven't read the Dark Eldar codex, so you can't play Dark Eldar."
"I don't own a copy of that Tyranid Supplement. You can't play it."

It is the EXACT same thing.

There are a bunch of different reasons for people not approving of Forgeworld. Not being familiar with the rules is only one of them.

Depends. I really like the FW models, but the price is semi absurd. Most of the FW models are fine ruleswise to me, but some of the LoW seem OP

Most of the time, personally at least, I've found most of the reasons that people don't like FW boils down to one of three things.

First, they think FW is all unbalanced WAAC crap that's there to turbo-power an army to victory, or that ti's all Titans and whatnot. This is blatantly false, most FW units are rather mediocre and relatively few are Superheavies/Gargantuan Creatures. On top of that, it's GW that actually has allowed the inclusion of, and written the current rules for, Titan models (FW just makes the resin at this point) outside of Apocalypse games.

Second is that often they play against something from FW and have a bad experience, and almost overwhelmingly it ends up being "player X showed up, with Y proxy to stand in for Z Forgeworld unit and said it did A, B and C and it just ruined everything." and it ends up that half the stuff was made up or doesn't work the way they played it and the model used was inappropriate and ultimately someone just basically cheated or tried to proxy something based on what they "heard" the rules were without actually having the correct rules.

Third is that you get a very competitive player who's extremely comfortable with a specific metagame and FW throws a kink in that or introduces a hardcounter to a gimmick they've come to rely upon, and the meta that they're comfortable in will possibly change if FW is introduced and other players take advantage of it.

Often it's a mix of two or even all three of these.

There's been a number of other reasons thrown at FW over the years to disallow its inclusion. Cost was one, but with GW models now coming out at the exact same prices (look at the price of Scions vs DKoK Grenadiers or the new Blood Angels Terminator Librarian relative to FW Terminator characters), and codex books now at $50 each, it's hard to argue that anymore. Sometimes you'll see people complain about rules inconsistency, but we have that with GW as well (with books often going many years and several editions without an update or having the same model in multiple books with different rules, like the current Chimera as it stands in the IG book vs the Inquisition book). You'll see some people complain about familiarity, but they won't bat an eye at playing a Codex army they've never played before or something else that isn't available in a shelf (e.g. Sisters of Battle).

Perosnally I love FW and use it in many of my games. FW's not perfect, but they usually get it better than GW, with relatively fewer "overpowered" units and far better fluff, and the overpowered stuff often gets caught in public playtesting or in an updated book within the same edition, unlike GW's core studio stuff.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Depends. I really like the FW models, but the price is semi absurd. Most of the FW models are fine ruleswise to me, but some of the LoW seem OP

Keep in mind many, if not most, of the rules for Lords of War, even those FW makes, aren't written by FW anymore. GW's core studio are responsible for the points costs and capabilities of I think all the Titan models at this point (FW printed the Chaos titans, but they're basically identical to the loyalist ones GW did). FW, for most of these units, just makes the resin. GW really poorly scales the costing of Superheavies and Lords of War, usually the bigger they are, the more effective they are for their investment, 1250pts of Reaver or Heirodule for example will wreck 1575pts of basic Baneblade or Shadowsword without too much thought for example. When GW released rules for an Imperator Titan as a PDF for the first version of Apocalypse, they costed it at 4000pts but it'd probably be able to successfully engage double or even triple or more that number of points worth of enemy units.

I love them!
They give me more options and they make sure I can face a bigger amount of different lists.

I'm very pro-FW. My only stipulation is that you need the rules on hand when you do it. It's not to be mean about it, it's just that there have been too many stories of WAAC players (or people just playing something wrong) for me to play without making sure I see the rules first.

I don't mind FW itself. But 2 out of 2 people i've played using forgeworld have been rather TFG.

For example, 1 guy fielded a renegade artillery list with some super-heavy plasma-tank and a void-shield generator (stronghold assault, i guess) against my orks. I asked him to explain how his stuff works as i don't own neither stronghold assault, nor don't know the rules for renegades and he told me void-shields are av12 4 hp for units within 12' radius. I asked: "Any units?" And he told: "Yes, any units".

During deployment he placed a large fortress partially in ruins and partially in the woods even though it's against the rules - and deployed all his artillery behind it. I thought - no big deal, it's a friendly game after all.

Than the game went on and i rushed towards the void shields and happened to have a few units underneath it. Than he shot and i claimed av12 from void shields. He told me it ain't working like this. But i've asked him to read the rules for me 'out of the book' as i've come to a conclusion that void shields work on any unit underneath it based on what he had told me. He got pissed off and claimed it's complete nonscence and started bitching about it. In the meanwhile i've googled bout the void shields and found a discussion here on dakka where people also claimed void shields work on any model friend or foe. The guy went hulk and told me that everyone's stupid and that i should have my own books and so on. Got to end the game turn 2.

Another guy Fielded 2 riptides list in a 1250 casual match - i've specifically stated beforehand it's gona be an extremely casual fluffy game. 1 was a forgeworld riptide with experimental rules - the one with 2 blasts which he told were ap3. He backed them up with tetras, a buffmander he joined to a riptide (6-th edition) and got a crysis suit team + a min squad of firewarriors and a min squad of vespids (to go extremely casual, i guess). My list was: Tzeench Apostle with gift, Tzeench footslogging sorc with gift, 2 large units of cultists, 2 squads of 10 possessed with 2 gifts each and a squad of 1000 sons with gift in a rhino.

Apostle rolled crussader, possessed champ rolled shrowded, others rolled useless stuff. Sorc got endurance. So, i've joined up apostle, sorc and possessed with shrowded, buffed them with endurance and launched them on one flank. Second possessed squad rushed the other flank. He bunched up and poured fire. Eventually, he killed off everything but a squad of cultists that were hiding behind blos with a relic. And he started bitching about...basically everything. About how i roll invulnerable and fnp saves. About how daemon possessed are broken (!), about how sorc with force weapons and endurance is broken and so on, and so forth.

So, it's probably anecdotal evidence but i don't want to play against fw guyz anymore

I think I've let FW complaints threads influence my opinion on them to much... Hell, I've faced FW units/armies only twice. The first time before the threads I didn't have really any problems fighting against Krieg.

The second time, last month I fought a variant of the Land Raider that had a Thunderfire cannon thing, and Ceramite plating. I was totally un-easy about going against just that one unit based on the threads I've read in the past.

So, went from being okay with fighting a forgeworld army, to being un-easy fighting a FW Land Raider variant.

Both games I barely lost, which just help to remind me; FW isn't Cheese-agedon, it's just different.

Currently, I do feel a little squeemish about fighting FW, but I'm going to suck it up and fight anyways, because in the end it's all about having fun with cool models. And boy does FW have some cool ass models!

My favorite argument is "If it was official, why don't they sell it at the FLGS" I haven't seen a wave serpent for sale in our FLGS for 5 months, so I think tournaments should ban them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't really want to live in a world where my opponent writes my list. You write yours, I'll write mine. We'll both use the legal system. The end.

 BladeTX wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
"Already been done" might be the understatement of the decade in this case.

Oh, alright then. I just couldn't find an actual poll(s) about it.

I for one love the FW models as your everyday SM player, but I can definitely see other race fans disagreeing with their use because they clearly show more love to marines in a big way. So, to that end, it gives them more options and units to fight with, which could put them over the competitive

edge... or does it simply allow marines to be competitive in the first place?

While they don't show Tyranids the love they show Space Marines they've still managed give us some of our best units like the Barbed Hierodule, Malanthrope and Dimachaeron. The Wreckerfex isn't half bad either.

FW is glorious and I pity the first comment in this thread that condemns it. May Peregrine have mercy on your soul.

 Pyeatt wrote:
My favorite argument is "If it was official, why don't they sell it at the FLGS" I haven't seen a wave serpent for sale in our FLGS for 5 months, so I think tournaments should ban them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't really want to live in a world where my opponent writes my list. You write yours, I'll write mine. We'll both use the legal system. The end.

The fact it comes from a GW subsidiary and that said it was legal to use should make it official enough.

 Pyeatt wrote:
My favorite argument is "If it was official, why don't they sell it at the FLGS" I haven't seen a wave serpent for sale in our FLGS for 5 months, so I think tournaments should ban them.

Based on that logic Sisters aren't an official army either.