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Drop Pods. Simple and straight forward. But with the Intertial Guidance System rules, this is easily THE BEST DEDICATED TRANSPORT OPTION available to Space Marines by far, and costs the same as a Rhino. It provides a reliable, near worry free deep strike, can block, can provide cover, can carry bulky infantry as well as walkers, and can capture objectives. What is not to like about this unit?

I argue that it is more than 50% cheaper than it should be for what it offers.

Thoughts?

In an army of mediocre shooting and survivability?

Probably a little under priced.

 Desubot wrote:
In an army of mediocre shooting and survivability?

Probably a little under priced.

When 20-30 marines are in your face T1 without any return fire, the survivability is not much of an issue. Even more so when another 20 drop the following turn.

The BA dex is even more of an egregious offender because the Pod is free if a 5 man assault squad (w/ 3 special weapons) leave their jump packs at home. Absurd. Huge oversight by GW.

It's sort of a unit multiplier, so it depends on the unit inside.
I don't particularly care about podding a tac squad. A melta-laden asm squad is a good fit.

But the king of podding is the fragioso dreadnought, in which case, yes the pod is undercosted. It makes the dread go from terrible to awesome.

Drop Pod is not under-cost. I will not say drop pod is the best transport. in fact i am not sure drop pod fit into the definition of a transport in US military point of view. drop pod dont really transport is more a deployment tools.

If you dont count movement has a value in 7th ed 40k i can see your point of view but once you factor in they are immobilize they cost is at the right price.

 Deuce11 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
In an army of mediocre shooting and survivability?

Probably a little under priced.

When 20-30 marines are in your face T1 without any return fire, the survivability is not much of an issue. Even more so when another 20 drop the following turn.

The BA dex is even more of an egregious offender because the Pod is free if a 5 man assault squad (w/ 3 special weapons) leave their jump packs at home. Absurd. Huge oversight by GW.

Honestly the humble bolter wont do too a significant amount of damage to much of anything besides t-shirts and guardsmen.

Meltas on the other hand can feth you up. luckly at best its going to be 2 meltas or extremely expensive, doesn't ignore cover, and can be counter deployed (bubble wrapped)

BA on the other hand not as sure since i know they are a great way of droping a ton of anti infantry shots with flamers up the wazooo. but then its only flamers.

 Deuce11 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
In an army of mediocre shooting and survivability?

Probably a little under priced.

When 20-30 marines are in your face T1 without any return fire, the survivability is not much of an issue. Even more so when another 20 drop the following turn.

The BA dex is even more of an egregious offender because the Pod is free if a 5 man assault squad (w/ 3 special weapons) leave their jump packs at home. Absurd. Huge oversight by GW.

I've killed 20+ SW from pods with my lowly BA lists. Xenos can massacre your 30 meqs before they assault. The BA scheme is paying around 135 pts for three melta shots. Then the meqs die. Is three melta shots worth 135 pts? I don't think so, with the new vehicle chart. So yeah, the survivability is a huge issue. Power armor is the new flak armor in 6-7 editions.

"What is not to like about this unit? "

It is a one shot transport and since you units immediately disembark, it doesn't actually provide protection for them. Also, they force you to buy empty pods or you piecemeal your own army. I've played against drop pods a LOT, and they have definite downsides.

Martel732 wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
In an army of mediocre shooting and survivability?

Probably a little under priced.

When 20-30 marines are in your face T1 without any return fire, the survivability is not much of an issue. Even more so when another 20 drop the following turn.

The BA dex is even more of an egregious offender because the Pod is free if a 5 man assault squad (w/ 3 special weapons) leave their jump packs at home. Absurd. Huge oversight by GW.

I've killed 20+ SW from pods with my lowly BA lists. Xenos can massacre your 30 meqs before they assault. The BA scheme is paying around 135 pts for three melta shots. Then the meqs die. Is three melta shots worth 135 pts? I don't think so, with the new vehicle chart. So yeah, the survivability is a huge issue. Power armor is the new flak armor in 6-7 editions.

"What is not to like about this unit? "

It is a one shot transport and since you units immediately disembark, it doesn't actually provide protection for them. Also, they force you to buy empty pods or you piecemeal your own army. I've played against drop pods a LOT, and they have definite downsides.

Nothing quite as fun as rolling 2s or 1s on T2 right? lol

Even if you take out the 10 points worth of transport capacity, and included inertial guidance for free. The survivability and deepstrike points would put it at 70 points. However, these are points spent one something that dies very easily to any heavy hitting assault unit (due to auto hits in melee) and most anti tank fire. They gave it to marines to scare people with what's inside. The fact that it also couldn't hold objectives until now is what made it OK. Imagine the rage if they actually costed it appropriately?

No, because what they transport isn't very good (marines).

Drop-pods have been 35 points for years. Hasn't stopped BA, SW and DA from languishing in non-competitive hell for two entire editions. Even C: SM, which is a GT winning codex, would be solidly average, as it was in 5th and 6th edition, were it not for its biker troops, Centurion-star and Knight allies.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Even if you take out the 10 points worth of transport capacity, and included inertial guidance for free. The survivability and deepstrike points would put it at 70 points. However, these are points spent one something that dies very easily to any heavy hitting assault unit (due to auto hits in melee) and most anti tank fire. They gave it to marines to scare people with what's inside. The fact that it also couldn't hold objectives until now is what made it OK. Imagine the rage if they actually costed it appropriately?

I just wouldn't use them at all at 70 pts. It would make beating SW a lot easier, though.

To be honest, that's av 12-12-12 and obsec that's more annoying than the actual transporting.

Ah. I use Baal strikeforce, so my drop pods don't have obj secured.

It's not undercosted in the grand scheme of things because there's places in the various marine codecies where we pay an arm and a leg to field an otherwise bland unit.

Terminators come to mind, chaplains are another, the whirlwind, the techmarine servitors, I ha ent even gotten to the list of unique by army units yet and already I've named four things that are kept off the table by at least 17% of our marine playerbase because they are overcosted to all hades and a drop in price somewhere would provoke a lot more playtime for those modelers.

So really it's not so bad considering the things we can't do along side cheap dedicated transports.

The problem I find drop pods having is that the Drop Pod Assault list is very RPS in terms of match ups. Either your opponent's army can't hadle it and loses or your opponent can and you lose. Ultimately this means it isn't a competitive list (because in a tournament with multiple rounds you are bound to fight an army that can handle you and thus you'll lose) but it still is unfun and overpowered vs some armies.

" Either your opponent's army can't hadle it and loses or your opponent can and you lose. "

This is why I don't go drop pod crazy like some marine players. And also why I don't think it's that strong.

Its nice having a few though. tend to focus on 3 and the rest being on table support. that way if you really shoot your self in the foot against a particularly hard army you didnt just spend your whole list on a single gimmick. (coughspamislamecough)

no they are not even close to being under costed...

compared to the rhino, you can get back in the rhino, you can keep moving the rhino and taxi back and forth..

all it is is giving the troops the DS rule with a very minimal chance to mishap... many other armies have similar or better mechanisms (webway portal for one)

3 pods vs a wave serpant, who wins? the WS every time in shooting and durability alone, let alone mobility and usefulness vs a wide array of opponents.

there are many, many good solid counters to pods that every army can take.

often you are just podding in suicide squads

Suicide squads from Astartes, who can't afford to throw units away, never made sense to me.

Is it RPS - yes, but that doesn't mean it is not a strong tactic with an undercosted unit. Maybe i is less undercosted than I originally posited, however.

Is it better than a Rhino for the same price? - ABSOLUTELY. It always gets the intended job done (deploying the marine where they are needed and wanted). And it DOES provided cover if you want it to by blocking clear LOS.

Does it deliver important payload? - It absolutely can. 3 specials or kitted vets or weighty numbers or dangerous characters can all me deployed without return fire almost exactly where they need to be with IGS.

"Is it better than a Rhino for the same price? - ABSOLUTELY."

Not necessarily. Being forced to commit early has spelled doom for many of my opponents.

" 3 specials or kitted vets or weighty numbers or dangerous characters can all me deployed without return fire almost exactly where they need to be with IGS."

And die the next turn? That's so useful!

Martel732 wrote:
"Is it better than a Rhino for the same price? - ABSOLUTELY."

Not necessarily. Being forced to commit early has spelled doom for many of my opponents.

" 3 specials or kitted vets or weighty numbers or dangerous characters can all me deployed without return fire almost exactly where they need to be with IGS."

And die the next turn? That's so useful!

Using a Pod Heavy list doesn't mean deploying frivolously. and by the way, I am considering pods in large number meaning 5 or more.

 Deuce11 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Is it better than a Rhino for the same price? - ABSOLUTELY."

Not necessarily. Being forced to commit early has spelled doom for many of my opponents.

" 3 specials or kitted vets or weighty numbers or dangerous characters can all me deployed without return fire almost exactly where they need to be with IGS."

And die the next turn? That's so useful!

Using a Pod Heavy list doesn't mean deploying frivolously. and by the way, I am considering pods in large number meaning 5 or more.

There is no frivolously needed. Your opponent can force you to drop into killing zones or out of your effective range. I've dealt with 5 pods and up. It's not THAT bad; especially if they aren't SW. The deathwind launcher buff helps, but that does make the pods cost quite a bit more.

So you drop 30 marines turn one, get your shots off, kill something then...probably you are in rapid fire/flamer/charge range of enemy units, and you have to footslog it to whatever objective you have to conquer.

"but you can pod 1 unit in every objective "
So the enemy can gang up one unit at a time?
And if you pay for empty DPs to have everything T1 you effectively pay almost double every DP.

 mathaius90 wrote:
So you drop 30 marines turn one, get your shots off, kill something then...probably you are in rapid fire/flamer/charge range of enemy units, and you have to footslog it to whatever objective you have to conquer.

"but you can pod 1 unit in every objective "
So the enemy can gang up one unit at a time?
And if you pay for empty DPs to have everything T1 you effectively pay almost double every DP.

I get the distinct impression that a lot of player see drop pods and panic. I've played against nearly every drop pod sleaze marines have put out since 5th ed. There is just a practical limit of how much firepower than can bring to bear, and their scheme is hugely crippled by mech lists.

Martel732 wrote:

 mathaius90 wrote:
So you drop 30 marines turn one, get your shots off, kill something then...probably you are in rapid fire/flamer/charge range of enemy units, and you have to footslog it to whatever objective you have to conquer.

"but you can pod 1 unit in every objective "
So the enemy can gang up one unit at a time?
And if you pay for empty DPs to have everything T1 you effectively pay almost double every DP.

I get the distinct impression that a lot of player see drop pods and panic. I've played against nearly every drop pod sleaze marines have put out since 5th ed. There is just a practical limit of how much firepower than can bring to bear, and their scheme is hugely crippled by mech lists.

You mean eldar Jinking mech lists right?
Iv crippled other mech armies with mass drop melta relatively consistently. (generally when they mech up hard they have less units to bubble wrap properly. not always the case but its a thang)

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 mathaius90 wrote:
So you drop 30 marines turn one, get your shots off, kill something then...probably you are in rapid fire/flamer/charge range of enemy units, and you have to footslog it to whatever objective you have to conquer.

"but you can pod 1 unit in every objective "
So the enemy can gang up one unit at a time?
And if you pay for empty DPs to have everything T1 you effectively pay almost double every DP.

I get the distinct impression that a lot of player see drop pods and panic. I've played against nearly every drop pod sleaze marines have put out since 5th ed. There is just a practical limit of how much firepower than can bring to bear, and their scheme is hugely crippled by mech lists.

You mean eldar Jinking mech lists right?
Iv crippled other mech armies with mass drop melta relatively consistently. (generally when they mech up hard they have less units to bubble wrap properly. not always the case but its a thang)

I think melta is incredibly unreliable after the vehicle damage nerf. I've taken the MM off my Stormraven even.

Please can you explain why Melta is less effective? I mean, ok, 7th buffed vehicles, but AP1 is quite good for the damage table...
I can't seem to see the point


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What should you have to use against vehicles?

 mathaius90 wrote:
Please can you explain why Melta is less effective? I mean, ok, 7th buffed vehicles, but AP1 is quite good for the damage table...
I can't seem to see the point

You need a 5+ to explode a vehicle. That's unreliable to me compared to a 4+. Four melta shots usually generate 2 pens between misses and failed pens. 2 pens at 5+ are about 50/50 odds instead of the 75% odds with two 4+ rolls. A unit with only three melta shots or two melta shots is much worse off that that. I just can't see suiciding melta units in 7th. The return isn't there except against very expensive targets.

Martel732 wrote:

 mathaius90 wrote:
Please can you explain why Melta is less effective? I mean, ok, 7th buffed vehicles, but AP1 is quite good for the damage table...
I can't seem to see the point

You need a 5+ to explode a vehicle. That's unreliable to me compared to a 4+. Four melta shots usually generate 2 pens between misses and failed pens. 2 pens at 5+ are about 50/50 odds instead of the 75% odds with two 4+ rolls. A unit with only three melta shots or two melta shots is much worse off that that. I just can't see suiciding melta units in 7th. The return isn't there except against very expensive targets.

Thank you, now I got the point. So high strength volume of fire is better now... Well one point less for DPs I guess. On the other hand is more difficult for a pod to explode, which is a good thing.
But I feel a rhino, with its 2 hatches, is a lot better than DPs.
You can always camp an objective inside a rhino while firing off plasma or such. Or using it to block Los to a squad. Maybe tank shock a unit off an objective. And he's also difficult to explode, but a little easier to wreck.