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I'm very curious about how people perceive unit balance in their own Codex. If you could rank the units in your Codex according to this scale and format, I would be very interested in reading your thoughts!

Unit Name:
Grade (choose one): Useless - Situational - Useful - Must Take
Comment:

I'll be back with my grades for the Eldar Codex later

(I think this rating system could do with a middle option between 'situational' and 'useful'. It's a little aggravating when I feel a unit is about average, but the only ranks available are basically 'below average' or 'above average'. )

Dark Eldar:

Lelith - Useless - S3 hurts her a lot, and she doesn't offer much beyond a regular Succubus.
Drazhar - Useless - An expensive beatstick with a horrible restriction and who loses to just about every similarly-priced beatstick in other books.
Urien - Situational - Not as bad as the above in that he's tough with a decent support ability. Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of a worthless artefact, pitiful melee ability and possibly the worst Warlord Trait in existence.

Archon - Situational - brings very little in melee (especially given how overcosted his weapons are), but tolerable with a blaster and/or WWP.
Haemonculus - Situational - Decent as a cheap, all-rounder HQ or with Grotesques, but nothing great.
Succubus - Useful - Not sure I'd want one as my Warlord, but they're definitely our best melee HQ.

Incubi - Situational - If they ever get grenades, I'll change them to 'useful'.
Mandrakes - Situational - Not particularly useful or effective, but decent objective campers if you have spare points.
Trueborn - Useful - Not sure if these should be 'situational'
Bloodbrides - Useless - Still Elite-Wyches? Yep. Still pointless? Yep.
Grotesques - Situational - Good, but get a lower ranking because of the crap PfP table.
Wracks - Useless - Outperformed by troops at shooting, and outperformed by... just about everything at combat.

Warriors - Useful - Might as well be your only troop choice.
Wyches - Useless - Remember that one useful thing you could do in 6th? Can't do it any more. No, of course you didn't get any bonuses or price-drop to compensate. Sigh.

Reavers - Must Take - Price drop plus d6 S6 Rending HoW hits and 3+ Jink, yes please!
Scourges - Must Take - Finally good, thanks to 4 special weapons.
Hellions - Useless - Would you like to include a slightly cheaper unit of Reavers, but worse in every way? No? Me neither.
Beast Packs - Situational? - I really don't know, to be honest. I didn't use them before and I haven't now. Though, as far I can tell, they got nerfed pretty hard.
Razorwing - Useful - Cheap, flexible flier. No objections.

Talos - Situational - Very slow for a melee beast.
Cronos - Situational - Slower than most of the units it's supposed to support...
Ravager - Useful - Took an unnecessary hit with the nerf-bat, but we don't have much else for long-range anti-tank.

Venom - Must Take - Excellent dedicated transport. I'd rate it as 'Situational' as a FA choice, since most armies will probably benefit more from including anti-tank of some kind in that slot.
Raider - Useful - Generally good only for transporting larger units, rather than for its own firepower. I'd rate it as 'Useless' as a FA choice for this reason. Allies may like it here, though.

Coven:
Haemonculus - Useful - Infinitely better than the standard Haemonculus, and can even buff units that don't benefit from Coven PfP (thanks to Fearless, Fear and Zealot). Fearless on turn 1 is incredibly useful, as is IWND from turn 3. They also have a nice selection of artefacts. That being said, I find two of them very hard to justify, so I generally only take them in Formations.
Urien - Situational - A little better than in the main book, but not by much. It's rather frustrating that he can't take advantage of the much more useful Coven Warlord traits, but is instead stuck with useless Fear.
Wracks - Situational - Some of the formations make them decent, but they're still a poor unit and should have been troops.
Grotesques - Useful (Must Take in Grotesquerie) - Benefit greatly from the Coven PfP, and are a good assault unit in general.
Talos/Cronos - Situational - Since they lack PfP, they get no real benefit from being taken as Coven units, outside of formations. I'd up both their ratings to 'Must Take' in the Dark Artisan Formation.

Note: These ratings are for pure DE/Coven with no allies.

I think it's pointless.

 koooaei wrote:
I think it's pointless.

Your codex or this rating system?

The rating system. Everything's situationally useful.

I might be a bit too much of a noob to participate in this, but here goes with my ratings of Codex: Dark Angels
HQ:
Azrael: Useful: He costs a lot, but he makes it all back with his relics and abilities. 6 attacks (if he gets the charge) at S6 and I5 and Mastercrafted should be enough to scare many enemy characters, and he can pick a Warlord Trait off the Dark Angels table. Very cool!
Ezekiel: Useful: The best psyker in the codex, Zeke gets some nice gear, but his warlord trait is a little meh. Even so, he's good for picking on the enemy warlord if he can get close.
Asmodai: Useless: You might as well take a regular Interrogator chaplain. His relic and warlord trait are just not good enough to bother with him.
Belial: Useful: He is amazing if you like terminators and is a mighty warrior even in tri-wing DA lists. He is a must-take in pure Deathwing lists since he makes your Termie squads troops! And, he gets some pretty neat options for his weapons so that he can tailor himself for different roles.
Sammael on Corvex: Useful: This guy is to Ravenwing what Belial is to Deathwing (makes bike squads troops). His point cost is a little ridiculous, but he is the only character in the codex with Eternal Warrior.
Sammael on Sableclaw: Situational: Basically a hopped-up Landspeeder Tornado, this is really only useful against hordes. Good armor on the front and sides is simply not good enough with only 2 hull points. And there is no point savings over Corvex. The 4++ save does help it, though.
Company Master: Situational: This guy makes a decent warlord in smaller games, but beyond 1500 points he is outclassed against most of the better HQ choices your opponents will likely have. He does have a decent selection of options available, though.
Interrogator-chaplain: Useful: These guys are nasty if you kit them out right. Give them a good relic and the right entourage and they will perform pretty well.
Chaplain: Useless: Seriously, just take an Interrogator chaplain. The extra points give you a much better character.
Librarian: Must Take: The cheapest HQ option (other than techmarines, which require you to have another HQ already), these guys can fit in almost any DA list if you give them the right wargear. And they have access to Divination, something that vanilla marines don't get from their libbys.
Techmarine: Situational: Useful if you have a lot of vehicles, but meh otherwise. Improving cover could be a good ability to use if you are setting up a gunline for the standard of devastation. Only take servitors if you plan for the techmarine to stay aboard a land raider or something.
Command Squad: Situational: Deathwing and Ravenwing command squads are much better, but these could be good for a tactical marine gunline with the standard of devastation.
Deathwing Command Squad: Useful: These make a good entourage for Belial or another HQ in Termie armor. Taking the Deathwing banner and running with some Deathwing knights can produce a very nasty melee blob.
Ravenwing Command Squad: Useful: These work very well in Bike armies since they can provide a mobile dakkabanner blob. Even in a multiwing army, they have some use since they are basically like Ravenwing Black Knights.
Troops:
Tactical Squad: Situational: These guys work well as objective holders, but if you are using a lot of them, you might as well play vanilla marines as they do it better. Some HQ choices can make DW Termies and/or RW bikes troops, and those are generally an improvement.
Scout Squad: Useless: Basically downgraded Tac marines, they might be a little better with sniper rifles and camo cloaks, but they still die very easily.
Elites:
Company Veterans Squad: Useful: These make a decent alpha strike force if taken in a drop pod. Their large selection of options means they can be kitted out for melee or ranged combat to taste.
Deathwing Terminator Squad: Situational: Very similar to vanilla termies, but slightly more costly. With the cost you do get some good special rules, though. Overall, the cost tends to override the usefulness.
Deathwing Knights: Useful: These guys are awesome in melee, but getting them there can be tricky as they will attract a lot of fire. Best if taken in a land raider.
Dreadnought: Useful: These are one of the coolest models in 40k, and they have a ton of options. Many players prefer the Forgeworld variants, but those are more expensive (in points and money!).
Dedicated Transports:
Rhino: Useful: The basic space marine ride, they go good with tactical squads and are dirt cheap. Also make decent LOS blockers when they are wrecked.
Razorback: Situational: Basically a more expensive Rhino with less capacity and a heavy weapon. The weapon just paints a bullseye on it for your opponent, so they tend to die quickly.
Drop Pod: Useful: These can put your squads in positions that are awkward for your opponent right from turn 1.
Fast Attack:
Ravenwing Attack Squadron: Useful: The basic fast attack choice. They work well with deepstriking deathwing since they carry teleport homers. Also, they can take a landspeeder as part of the unit, something even White Scars can't do.
Ravenwing Support Squadron: Situational: Land speeders are very fast and can carry good weapons, but their glass jaws get busted way too easily. Their best use is in a ravenwing bike squadron, especially when Sammy or Azzy makes them troops!
Ravenwing Black Knights: Must Take: These guys are awesome! They cost a fair bit, but with their TL Plasma weapons and grenade launchers, not to mention their signature melee weapons, they are well worth it!
Ravenwing Darkshroud: Situational: These work well with bikes, improving their jink saves, but they tend to be fragile.
Assault Squad: Situational: They work ok with a character that has a jump pack, but they are too easy to kill for what they cost. Blood Angels do assault marines far better.
Nephilim Jetfighter: Useless: These things are so overcosted it isn't funny, and most other flyers will shoot them down with no problem.
Ravenwing Dark Talon: Situational: These have a little more use, in that they can potentially benefit from the dakkabanner and they can severely reduce the stats on an enemy unit. The latter is a one-off ability, so its usefulness is limited. Like its brother the nephilim, it is also overcosted.
Heavy Support:
Devastator Squad: Situational: These guys only work if they can find some cover and park there. Their heavy weapons are dangerous, but not if they have to snap fire because they moved.
Predator: Useful: The main battle tank of the space marines can be customized to fill a variety of battlefield roles. They have a place in many DA lists.
Whirlwind: Situational: These have weapons that can ignore cover, but are pretty fragile. Useful only against infantry (especially GEQ) or light vehicles.
Vindicator: Useful: S10 Large Blasts can make anyone take notice. Keep them in cover or they will get singled out for destruction very quickly.
Land Raider: Useful: These are VERY tough and can take all comers with their mixed weaponry. They can be given the Deathwing Vehicle special rule as an option (not optional if taken as a Dedicated transport), making them even more annoying, especially to Chaos marines.
Land Raider Crusader: Useful: The best flavor of land raider for Dark Angels, they can benefit from the dakkabanner and shred light infantry like its going out of style!
Land Raider Redeemer: Situational: Generally, you will want one of the other land raiders for most things, but not bad for killing enemies that get close.
Land Speeder Vengeance: Useless: Honestly, why would you ever pay the cost of a tri-las predator for a vehicle with a land speeder profile THAT WILL "GETS HOT" ITSELF TO DEATH!?

My ratings given are my personal opinions, and some of them are just theory as I haven't played every single DA unit, so take what I say with a [large] grain of salt. I hope that they improve some of the useless units whenever they make a new DA codex.

 koooaei wrote:
The rating system. Everything's situationally useful.

Yeah, I think 'situational' was a poor choice of words.

I mean, I think Succubi are pretty good, but they're also situational because you only want them in a list with a melee unit.

 koooaei wrote:
The rating system. Everything's situationally useful.

Then rate on the situational usefulness.

Let's give this a whirl for the vanilla SM codex. I'm curious to see what other people think about the relative merits of some units:

Slotless
Command Squad: Useful, Powerful firepower and flexibility, access to bikes and transports.
Honor Guard: Situational, Cost-efficient against certain targets, but inflexible and easily countered.
Techmarine: Useless, The points would be better spent investing in vehicle equipment. Situational for Iron Hands, who can get him up to a 2+ repair. Bolster is nice, but can be had elsewhere.

HQ
Captain: Useful, Powerful fighter with superb equipment selection. A Must Take for White Scars, to unlock bike troops.
Chaplain: Situational, A sub-par fighter, but offer good buffs.
Chapter Master: Useful, Powerful fighter with superb equipment selection. A Must Take for White Scars, to unlock bike troops.
Librarian: Situational, A sub-par fighter, psychic powers are sub-par, but bargain price. Cheapest way to unlock a Command Squad.
Master of the Forge: Situational, A deceptively good fighter, has access to good equipment, can be an extremely durable warlord. Useful for Iron Hands.
Terminator Captain: Situational, gives your captain Deep Strike, at the cost of being able to sweep or fit into transports.

Elite
Centurion Assault Squad: Situational, Good Firepower and Melee, but inflexible and requires expensive delivery mechanism.
Dreadnought: Useless, Not enough firepower and durability for the price. Not enough melee attacks, and can be hurt by some basic infantry in close combat.
Ironclad Dreadnought: Useful, Good durability, good weapon choices. Deceptively good ranged firepower options. Immune to almost all basic infantry attacks.
Legion of the Damned: Useful, Good durability, powerful special rules, and decent weapon choices. A Must Take for Salamanders using Vulkan.
Sternguard: Situational, Powerful ranged attacks, and access to excellent equipment, but expensive.
Terminator Assault Squad: Useful, Hammernators are powerful, flexible melee, but expensive. LC Terminators are significantly less useful.
Terminator Squad: Useless, Low ranged damage output, deceptively fragile.
Vanguard Veterans: Useless, Mediocre base damage output. Equipment choices are overly expensive for what they do. Situational for Raven Guard.

Troops
Tactical Squad: Useful, Mediocre damage output, but good flexibility and special rules. Fairly good mobility with their many transport options. Must Takes for Ultramarines.
Scout Squad: Situational, Their mobility, cover saves, and ObSec make them great objective cappers, but they are very poor fighters for their price.
Crusader Squad: Situational, Confused rules, but access to ObSec Land Raider Crusaders opens up some good strategies.
Bike Squad: Must Take, Excellent firepower, durability, mobility, price. Having ObSec, and being in a 6 slot section make them Must Takes. There's very little that Tac marines can do that Bikes can't do better.

Fast Attack
Assault Squad: Useless, Damage output is too low, and not durable enough to tarpit. Situational for Raven Guard.
Attack Bike Squadron: Useful, Relentless heavy weapons, excellent durability and mobility.
Bike Squad: Useful, Excellent firepower, durability, mobility, price.
Land Speeder Squadron: Useful, Excellent firepower and mobility.
Scout Bike Squad: Situational, Good special rules, low price.
Stormtalon: Useful, Excellent firepower, but fragile.

Heavy Support
Centurion Devastators: Must Take, Extraordinary firepower and durability
Devastator Squad: Situational, Good firepower, but stationary and fragile. Useful for Ultramarines and Imperial Fists.
Hunter: Useless, Will struggle to make back even it's modest point cost.
Land Raider: Useless, Bad weapon choices and placement, small transport capacity. AV14 at least.
Land Raider Crusader: Useful, Good weapon choices, cavernous transport capacity, extreme durability.
Land Raider Redeemer: Situational, Mediocre weapon choices, decent transport capacity, extreme durability.
Predator: Useful, Good Firepower, fairly durable.
Vindicator: Useful, Good Firepower, fairly durable.
Whirlwind: Situational, Mediocre firepower, not durable, but very inexpensive.
Thunderfire Cannon: Must Take, Excellent firepower, very durable, good special rules.
Stalker: Situational, Good against flyers and skimmers, very inexpensive.
Stormraven: Useful, Decent firepower, good durability. Transport capacity is good, but often goes to waste.

Dedicated Transports
Rhino: Situational, Fast, flexible, and cheap, but fragile.
Razorback: Situational, Good firepower and flexibility, but fragile.
Drop Pod: Useful, Gives you squads guaranteed 1st turn placement at almost any point on the board, and guaranteed alpha strike, while also being inexpensive. A Must Take for Salamanders and Ultramarines.


I haven't used all of the named characters, but the are almost entirely Situational or Useless. Some of them enable very powerful strategies (Khan, Vulkan, Tigurius), but you need to build your army around that concept, and so I would consider most of them Situational.

High Marshal Helbrecht
ING USELESS
how the hell he managed to beat up a daemon prince as an initiate even though DP kills him in the loadout of the high marshals?
Mediocre challenge potential, bloody useless if he got charged, and that WAAAGH, while tasty at first, it's still just tacs with chainswords, plus fleet and hatred(hammernators and honorguard get nice buffs tho) but you will in reality never get to charge with those crusader mobs, honor guard AND hammernators in the same turn, which you need in order to maximize the damage output
Grimaldus
Situational, only because of points cost. if he had 3 wounds in profile and old only in death does duty end rule(which also gave him almost Eternal warrior) then i would take him anyday

 koooaei wrote:
The rating system. Everything's situationally useful.

its not pointless, everything is ALWAYS situationally useful. However, many things in all the codex are far far More situationally useful than others. Some things are auto include for being useful in 90 precent of situations, and some are so niche that they aren't useful even 10 precent of the time.

Thank you guys for posting, it's quite fascinating Reading!

 Orock wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The rating system. Everything's situationally useful.

its not pointless, everything is ALWAYS situationally useful. However, many things in all the codex are far far More situationally useful than others. Some things are auto include for being useful in 90 precent of situations, and some are so niche that they aren't useful even 10 precent of the time.

Yes, I should have probably explained it better. I often see people say "this unit might not be the best, but if you find yourself in these and these situations it's good". That's what ineas going for. A "useful" unit is useful in most cases, while a must-take is so good against almost any list that it would almost be stupid not to take it. I hope this is how most people interpreted it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
vipoid: I'm so sad that Crhonos/Talos aren't better, they are such cool units. Would they be good if they were a touch faster?

Well, this should be fun. I'd love to rate my new Necron codex.

HQs:

Overlord: Must Take. Good upgrade options, lost his good saves, but is still just as hard to kill, and can be either shooty or stabby now.
Lord: Useful. A minor Overlord, but still tough, and good for adding Rez orbs and some extra shooting/stabbing to your other units.
Crypteks: Useful. I love their buff, which is really useful, even in Decurion because of ID. Plus, Chronometron will help keep units alive.
Destroyer Lord: Useful. Good for giving Preferred Enemy to a unit, and now has a better selection of wargear options to make him more survivable.
Catacomb Command Barge: Useful. Not as OP as it once was, but still decently survivable. Can still kill stuff, but is also used as a decent buffer for making things not run away from combat.

I won't go over every named character, but I personally think all of them are useful, or at worst situational. But definitely not bad, and fun to play.

Troops:

Necron Warriors: Must Take. They can kill anything they shoot at now, and is our main source of killing vehicles and drowning things in weight of fire. Plus, really tough to kill.
Necron Immortals: Useful. Better at killing slightly tougher things, but will only really shine against specific targets.

Elites:

Lychguard: Useful. A lot more survivable, a lot cheaper, and still just as killy. A personal favorite of mine. Love the models, love the fluff, ext.
Triarch Praetorians: Useful. Decent shooting, which is hard to come by otherwise in the book, and rather tough and killy in CC. Both weapon options are viable now, which is a plus.
Triarch Stalker: Useful. Bubble of +1 BS? Yes please, and it's weapons are rather nice. Heat Ray is especially flexible.
Flayed Ones: Useful. Yeah, I said it. These things, at least in my opinion, are point-for-point one of the scariest CC units in the game now.
Shard of the Nightbringer: Situational. He's much better than he was, and Gaze of Death is ridiculous. But certain armies will dispatch of him with ease, so he's not always worth taking.
Shard of the Deceiver: Situational. Not quite sure of the best way of using him. You have to know how to utilize his Grand Illusion to gain the most benefit from him.
Deathmarks: Useful. I personally always take these guys when possible. They got a slight nerf, but are overall still good, and more flexible in what they do.

Fast Attack:

Canoptek Scarabs: Situational. Only really good when backed up by a Spyder, as they got more expensive, and have a worse armor save now. But not a bad choice.
Canoptek Wraiths: Must Take. I say this not from my own personal play style, as I rarely use them, but they are must better than they used to be, extremely survivable, and can kill stuff rather well in CC. This is the Wave Serpent of the Necron codex.
Tomb Blades: Useful. Again, my point of view, I love these things and will always take them, but not everyone feels the same. They're are cheap enough to be survivable and have decent firepower, and give us access to Ignore Cover. YEESSSS.
Necron Destroyers: Useful. Definitely better than how they used to be. More survivable, and bit more fun to play. Not the most competitive option though.
Ghost Arks: Must Take. Got cheaper, got more firepower, and its Repair Barge got better. Will help your warriors stay a live for a long time, and this thing is still as hard to kill as it was before.
Night Scythe: Must Take. Our main option of Anti-Air, is the best Flying Transport in the game, and is still decently cheap.

Heavy Support:

Transcendent C'Tan: Situational. A little better than normal C'Tan shards, and can get across the board with Deep Strike, but still lacks the survivability that makes him a good choice most of the time.
Annihilation Barge: Useful. No longer an auto-include, but still not BAD per se. There are just better options now.
Doomsday Ark: Useful. A favorite of mine, this thing is rather scary now. I will be using one frequently.
Doom Scythe: Useful. Got cheaper, got easier to use, and is still really good. Also got better at killing vehicles. w00t
Monolith: Situational. Not bad, as it was in the old book. It just didn't gain anything though. If you're not utilizing it's Eternity Gate for your troops, then there are better firepower options.
Canoptek Spyders: Useful. Again, goes well with Scarabs, and now their upgrades are cheaper. Still a really good unit.
Heavy Destroyers: Useful. 150 points for 6 T5 3+ save wounds with Reanimation Protocols, and 3 preferred enemy lascannons. And, can move-shoot-move. Definitely not a bad choice.

Lords of War:

Obelisk: Useful. Definitely a good choice now with it's AV increase and point decrease. The formation is also pretty good when you tag-team with monoliths.
Tesseract Vault: Situational. Not BAD, but against other LoW choices or Apocalypse units, it doesn't quite hold a candle to them. Did get better in some ways to its older self though.
Imotekh the Stormlord: Useful. I still cringe when I see Draigo at 245 points with all of his special rules, W4, Eternal Warriors, ext. But, this guy is 190 points for a lot more than he used to give in your army. Reliable AP2 shooting, a flame weapon, still tough to kill, and can alter reserve rolls and such, he's not bad.

I'm limiting myself to units I've used or know quite well, so this list is missing quite a few entries.

Avatar - Situational - He's a great beatstick with awesome stats, but with a 5++ he doesn't survive long, even with 5 wounds. I love him but he rarely does much.
Farseer - Must take - Lvl3 for 100 points with the borderline broken Ghosthelm (ignore wounds from Perils at the cost of one dice), and access to the Spiritstone of Everything Costs One Warp Charge less? Amazing.
Spiritseer - Useful - I like using Wraiths, so him making them Troops is great, plus he's a level 2 for 70 points which isn't bad at all.
Warlocks - Useful - Love these in Guardian blobs casting Shrouding, but they don't do much else sadly, unless you run Jetseer Council. Still worth it.

Dire Avengers - Useful - I love these guys because of the 18" range on their Shuriken weapons, but they die to easily even with a 5++ from the Exarch, which also makes them a bit expensive. I still use them most of the time.
Guardians - Must take - They can put out so much damage for not many points, and the Weapon Platforms give them incredible flexility. I do Star Cannon platforms for the Terminator-killiness.
Rangers - Situational - These guys can camp objectives like nobody's business... aaaand... that's it. They can't really kill the inside of a barn and they just lost pinning in 7th.
Jetbikes - Must take - So good I don't want to use them. Cheap, Troops and insanely fast.

Fire Dragons - Useful - Must take if you're going up against heavy armor, those meltas do some insane damage. Not very expensive either and can ride around in a Falcon like a boss.
Harlequins - Useless - so, so glad for the new Codex. These guys were complete gak.
Howling Banshees - Useless - melee troops with no assault transport, S3 and no grenades... yeah AP3 ain't compensating for that. Give them grenades and Furious Charge and I'll try them.
Striking Scorpions - Situational - The Exarch with a Sx2 AP2 weapon is cool, but extremely expensive. They're good is you think they can survive Infiltrating. They REALLY need support or they will dire, 3+ or no.
Wraithguard - Situational - I love love LOVE Wraithguard, but they're ultimately rarely worth the points investment. They die too easily and Fire Dragons can do their job cheaper. D-Scythes are my favorite but sadly very expensive. I still use them always.

Swooping Hawks - Useful - great for objective grabbing, and the mass lasgun fire + Haywire grenades make them very versatile.
Warp Spiders - Useful - disgustingly fast and with great guns, bordering on must-takes.
Vypers - Situational - Well... they are worse than War Walkers, that's for sure. They don't have the 5++ or Outflank. They get a crap weapon selection... I guess they're kind of useless? But I like them... Maybe in the situation when you've run out of slots for the good stuff

Falcon - Situational - Good as a Fire Dragon transport, but the Wave Serpent is simply better, cheaper and has more transport capacity. Had the Pulse Laser been Lance I would've loved them. As it is, Bright Lances are better.
War Walkers - Useful - bordering on must-take, cheap mass-firing platforms with a 5++ and Outflank plus awesome weapon selection. What's not to love?
Wave Serpents - DERP

Mymearan wrote:
vipoid: I'm so sad that Crhonos/Talos aren't better, they are such cool units. Would they be good if they were a touch faster?

I think they would be, yes. As it stands, they feel somewhat out of place. Just about every other unit in the codex is either fast itself, or has access to our fast transports. But, the Talos and Cronos are stuck moving 6" and don't even have fleet. I think what really gets me is that they don't have PfP either - so they can't benefit from the Coven PfP chart (which would let them get IWND, Zealot and Eternal Warrior as the game progressed).

Also, their slowness bothers me because it seems like we're being held to a different standard than other armies. Why, for example, is a Wraithknight - which is tougher, more durable and which has better firepower - allowed to move as a jump unit, but our MCs are stuck footslogging?


One thing though - I think the Talos and Cronos are good as part of a Dark Artisan formation. There are still problems, but the ability to deep strike them with a WWP at least helps with their mobility issues. It also makes for a nice Warlord bunker. So, if you do want to use their models, that's how I'd recommend going about it.

ThatSwellFella wrote:
High Marshal Helbrecht
ING USELESS
how the hell he managed to beat up a daemon prince as an initiate even though DP kills him in the loadout of the high marshals?
Mediocre challenge potential, bloody useless if he got charged, and that WAAAGH, while tasty at first, it's still just tacs with chainswords, plus fleet and hatred(hammernators and honorguard get nice buffs tho) but you will in reality never get to charge with those crusader mobs, honor guard AND hammernators in the same turn, which you need in order to maximize the damage output
Grimaldus
Situational, only because of points cost. if he had 3 wounds in profile and old only in death does duty end rule(which also gave him almost Eternal warrior) then i would take him anyday

Well to be fair the Imperium of man has been known to hype up their "Heroes" and what not in the lore (Even stating so in several book) out to make their warriors seem more formidable so the masses of men under their brainwashed control think they have a better chance at surviving a fight or encounter. "All hail X-Hero of the imperium! Took on Angron and punched him in his face" Little do they know Guardsman Bob hasn't even seen duty outside his floating wheelchair and his hologram at public events has him super imposed onto an Ogryn Brute

 vipoid wrote:

Dark Eldar:

Trueborn - Useful - Not sure if these should be 'situational'

Grotesques - Situational - Good, but get a lower ranking because of the crap PfP table.

Beast Packs - Situational? - I really don't know, to be honest. I didn't use them before and I haven't now. Though, as far I can tell, they got nerfed pretty hard.

I agree with your entire post with a couple of notes for the above entries.

Blasterborn in a venom makes Trueborn Useful if not a Must Take. So many times when I'm building a list, I have to stop and think, "why not just take more blasterborn than this?"

Grotesques are Useful at worst. They are big beaty monsters that threaten everything. Very efficient choices and it scares the crap out of anyone when they charge out of a raider. A succubus baby-sitting makes them terrifying.

Beast Packs are definitely situational. The old builds took a big hit but we gained a lot of flexibility in shaping a pack over last edition. They're in a super competitive FOC, and there are much better choices, but they are playable.

 katfude wrote:

I agree with your entire post with a couple of notes for the above entries.

Blasterborn in a venom makes Trueborn Useful if not a Must Take. So many times when I'm building a list, I have to stop and think, "why not just take more blasterborn than this?"

I used to always take at least two units, but more recently I've started to look at what I can get by taking other units instead. They put out good firepower, but they have a relatively short range and are an incredibly fragile unit. A squad of trueborn with blasters is 115pts, before you even add in a transport. That's a lot of points for 5 T3 models with negligible saves. Also, with Scourges getting better, it seems like we have better sources of anti-tank.

But, it might just be my playstyle, since I'm trying to move away from force-concentration, if you see what I mean.

 katfude wrote:

Grotesques are Useful at worst. They are big beaty monsters that threaten everything. Very efficient choices and it scares the crap out of anyone when they charge out of a raider. A succubus baby-sitting makes them terrifying.

I rated them as 'situational' because I think Coven ones are better, but still not Must Takes.

It probably doesn't help, though, that I play GKs on a regular basis - against which grotesques aren't even remotely worth their points. I also see a lot of S10, sadly. So, it could well be that my opinion is just tainted by me meta, but I dislike taking an expensive unit when several armies have built-in hard-counters to them.

It's rather depressing, actually, since GKs are basically a hard-counter to a lot of the fun units I want to use.

 katfude wrote:

Beast Packs are definitely situational. The old builds took a big hit but we gained a lot of flexibility in shaping a pack over last edition. They're in a super competitive FOC, and there are much better choices, but they are playable.

Fair enough. They're one of the few units that I've had no experience with whatsoever.

I'm not sure if the lack of Voidraven Bomber in your list should be taken as an accidental omission or a clever way of saying "useless".

lustigjh wrote:
I'm not sure if the lack of Voidraven Bomber in your list should be taken as an accidental omission or a clever way of saying "useless".

Possibly a little of both, since it didn't make my cut in the 'trim the fat from your codex' thread.

I'd charitably rate it as 'Situational'. Void Lances make it (alightly) better at anti-air than the Razorwing, and the bomb can be useful sometimes. However, 160pts is really too expensive for an AV10 flier - especially when it costs a minimum of 40pts just to give it any more missiles.

Also, who thought it would be a good idea to design a bomber that can only carry one bomb?

Adepta Sororitas/Sisters of battle

Before I start this review I must say what 'Acts of Faith' are. ALL battle Sister squads have 2 special rules built in. A 6++ (Including ALL Vehicles) and a Special rule that can be used once per game.
During the proper phase (shooting, move, assault ect) roll a leadership test. If it's passed the squad gains that special rule until the beginning of that next phase. I will list their powers next to them.

I'm also not going to include the 2 options we have from forge world right now either

HQ:
Saint Celestine: Must take Act of Faith: Resurrection She's arguably one of the best HQ choices in the game. The codexes only 2+ armour. Only HQ with a jump pack. a S:5 AP:3 sword that also works as a heavy flamer all the time. No eternal warrior but can come back to life with full woulds if she passes a leadership test (At LD 10) and can work as normal. She has hit and run with a stupidly good I of 7. A huge number of base attacks, fearless and a master crafted weapon and Frag and Krak grenades. She WILL chew threw anything up to Mega Armour Nobs, Terminators and Nid Monstrous creatures.

Jacobus: Useful 3 wounds, 4+ Invul. High leadership but absolutely terrible in melee AND shooting. His main features are the fact that he's cheap (100 pts) His warlord trait is amazing (Gives the battle sister squad he is with a 5++ shield of faith) and counter attack. Plus, he gives the squad he's in a second use of their act of faith. He's also a priest, so Zealot and warhymns. (Pass a leadership test get either, reroll failed to wounds, or failed saves in melee. Or smash, if you want it too.) If youre running a large foot mob he's key to keeping them alive.

Cannoness: Useless Our ONLY non-named HQ choice. She's got the stats that you would think she would have. No access to any decent melee weapons. No access to bikes or jump packs and an act of faith that is absolutely useless. (Hatred - once per game. Not useful, especially in a shooting army and one where priests are available) She has access to Relics, and some of the relics are pretty cool. It's just on a terrible delivery system

Command squad: Useless Act of Faith: Fleet, crusader and move through cover Think of a space marine command squad where the only upgrades are special or heavy weapons or melee weapons. No bikes or jumppacks. No Champion. The're okay on their own but can only be taken if you take a Cannoness and, hahahahaa, that's not going to happen. Plus, even then aren't that great. Kitted out for melee with a priest and a Cannoness they could even be good. But we have no way of getting them to combat as the Sisters have no assault vehicles.

Priest: Must take They do not take up a HQ slot and you can have several of them. They're 25 points. One wound with a 4++. But are amazing in what they give the army. Zealot. Plus war hymns. I state what warhymns do under Jacobs but in the Sisters codex they are independent characters so can be put in ANY FRIENDLY SQUAD. Makes Sisters amazing as an ally for other Imperial forces and gives BSS squads the staying power they need.

Battle conclave: Situational They're like an Inquisition squad but with only the Arcos, Death Cult and Crusaders as options. They're not bad on their own and can be kinda killy. But Sisters don't have assault vehicles and the Inquisitor squads are far and away better options. Still, not a bad counter assault force for a pure Sisters army.

TROOPS:
Battle Sister Squads: Must take Act of Faith: Preferred enemy shooting/melee Think of a cross between Imperial guard vets and Space marines, BS 4, LD 8, SV 3+, S, T, I and WS 3. They're must take for the simple fact that they are THE ONLY troop choice in a Sisters of battle army so must be taken for a legal list. They fill basically the same niche as that of Space marine. Semi durable, Obsec, troop choices that can put out decent fire power. They have few key advantages of their more famous, male counter parts. They have a 6++ (ALL THE TIME), they're cheaper but put out the same damage (11 points) and can take both a Heavy AND A Special in a 5 Girl squad. Which is cannot be overstated. The squad size ranges from 5-20. Also useful. Being only T, WS, and I 3 though they get swept pretty easily as they lack 'They shall know no rules' and can be shot off an objective in 5 girl squad. Still 20 girls with a priest can AND WILL tarpit ANY combat unit in the game. (Fearless Re-rollable 3+/6++ saves are hilarious sometimes)

ELITES:
Celestines: Useless Act of Faith:+1 Strength, melee Veteran versions of Battle Sister squads. They have an extra attack, an extra WS and an AOF that gives them S:4. They also have NO access to special melee weapons of any kind. They have the same upgrades as the, useful but not great, battle sister squads but they lose Obsec. Never take unless you run out of troop choices and want more bolters for some reason

Repentia: Situational generously Act of Faith:3+ Feel no pain, assault phase Okay, so, interesting choice. Fearless. Fleet. 2 Attacks. Rage. Armed with a CHAINFIST. All for 14 POINTS. 14! Right. Sound great right? Well... eh. No armour saves. (Just the 6++) no feel no pain normally. So they can AND will get shot off the table before they run to you. When they do get to you they will strike last. There's some cool combos you can do with them. (Jacobus for the 5++ and some priests) but unless they're a counter assault force or coming out of a land raider (which we can't get) they're not great. Still, more close combat hitting power than Terminators for 35% of the cost isn't bad.

FAST ATTACK:
Seraphim: Situational Act of Faith: Shred, shooting phase So they're veterans but only have 1 attack.... they do have hit and run, but at I 3.... Their main ability is the fact that they can take 2 SETS of either hand Flamers or Melta pistols. That's 4 Hand flamers or 4 melta pistols. The Superior (Sgt) can take ONE plasma pistol or a H. Flamer or Melta pistol to add to it. People want to use them as an assault squad but that's not the point. They shoot something really hard (typically an out of the way support unit like a long fang squad or a massive, compacted foot horde like gaunts or orks) then fly away if they attack you. Their 6++ is also reroll able. They would be more useful if Sisters had HQ choices with jump packs but only have one. Here's the thing, if you take Saint Celestine, you MUST take Seraphim. They give her shred on her heavy flamer attack and she gives them a 2+ armour save, heavy hitting close combat power and I7 on their hit and run. They function as a great Saint Celstine delivery system and a good harassment unit and not much else. Still, 5 Infernus pistols at BS4 isn't that bad.

Dominons: Must take Act of Faith: Ignore cover, shooting Okay, they're Battle Sisters in every way except one key difference. The squad itself has Scout. Which means it can get in on a target turn one. The other part of this is that they can take FOUR special weapons in a 5 girl squad. (Plus a combi on the Superior) That's 5 Melta guns with Scout at BS 4. 5 Melta guns with Scout at BS 4 with IGNORES COVER. Best used to kill Wave Serpents or other Important armoured targets. They have other weapon options, 4 Flamers or 4 Storm bolters. These other two options are useful as storm bolters are laughable and getting ignores cover on flamers is a waste. Set them up close to the enemy. Scout 12''. Get first turn. Move 6, get out 6 shoot. 36' inch move with melta guns on turn one. How far away can most people be on deployment? Expect them to fail in clutch situations and when they don't, they WILL be killed afterwards. Keeping them alive isn't a big concern. The biggest cost of this squad are the 50 points youre spending on meltas/combi meltas. Get them there, use those meltas. If they live to turn two. All the better for more melta.

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Exorcist: Situational Armour 13. 3 Hull points. BS 4. 6++ save. S8 AP 1 missiles with a huge range. They have the longest range in the army by a HUGE margin and a powerful main weapon. These are your fire support units. They're good and only 125 points. Still the only thing that stops them from being a must take (and I've taken 2 in every Sisters game I've EVER played with one exception so believe me on this one) is the fact that they get a random number of shots. Heavy: D6. They WILL fail you at an important moment. Nothing worse than rolling a one on the number of shots you get. Still, with decent rolling they can murder most light to mid vehicle or kill a few terminators from time to time. I wouldn't have them be your lynch pin unit as they are too random but if everything comes together, they kill things. This also makes them a huge fire magnet. Anyone who gets a squad wiped by one of these will make them a prime target. That can be useful too as it pulls fire from your more delicate units.

Penitent Engine: Useless Okay, maybe Situational but probably not. Cheaper than a dreadnought but also more delicate than one. We all know the trouble Dreds have in the current rule set. BS2 but that's okay, they have 2! Heavy Flamers. Functions like a mini Furioso as it ignores the effects of crew shaken/stunned and has Rage. Not bad for 80 points but. Ugh. Front armour 11 and a 6++ don't do well on a melee only foot unit that also looks like a massive, massive target. Take in a squad of three (yeah, squads) and run them at someone to either draw fire or kill a few things. Used that way it might be good but they're too delicate to really count on.

Retributor Squad: Situational Act of Faith: Rending, shooting More Battle sisters. Same stats. Same everything. But like Dominons there's one key difference. They can take FOUR heavy weapons in a squad. They're limited - like all battle sisters - to bigger versions of the holy trinity. (Bolter, melta, flamer) but 4 Rending H. Bolters isn't bad. 4 Rending H. Flamers hopping out against a clustered enemy will kill most things. (I once wiped out an 11 man blood angel assault squad - WITH feel no pain - when they deep struck right next to me using just these 5 girls) I don't think I've ever seen anyone ever take the Melta guns as rending meltas are useless and, if you're only going to get one use of your act of faith, you may as well not waste it.

SQUAD UPGRADES:
Simulacrum Imperialis: Situational ALL battle sisters can take this (with the exception of Seraphim and Repentia) it allows the squad to use their act of faith Twice a game. (3 times with Jacobus) Really good for some squads. (Large Battle Sister squads or Retributors) but wasted on others (Smalls squads, Dominons - who WILL die before turn two) so sprinkle where you see fit.

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:
Rhino: Situational Whats to say about a Rhino? It's 5 points more expensive but gains a 6++ invulnerable save. Still, not amazing and I think Sisters have better choices.

Immolators: Must take A razor back. A 60 point razor back with a 6++ save. WITH Twin-linked Multi Meltas. (Or Heavy flamers - Or heavy bolters but don't take them) Sisters of battle do MSU arguably better than ANY army in the game. Most squads will be run at 5 women strong. So you can take nothing but Immolators with BSS, Rets, Doms and throw in a priest for good fun. If you run full armoured - like I do - you'll run between 3-6 of these with Exorcists backing them up. Maybe a bit of an armoured coffin but it works well with the Sisters and is the best choice for transport.

Alright, I'll do one for the other codex I play, mainly because I'm bored. So, Tyranids it is!

HQs:

Hive Tyrant: Must Take. Duh? Is there any question here?
Tyranid Prime: Useful. I love this guy. But, I love Warriors, which the internet does not. I've had great success with him, both in shooting and CC. I like that he buffs Warriors.
Old One Eye: Situational. I mean, he's not bad, but there are way better options.
Deathleaper: Useful. This guy is awesomely fun, though not always the best choice.
Swarmlord: Useful. He's been really good to be, but a bit too expensive for what he is, especially since you have to take his Tyrant guard to make him survive.
Tervigon: Must take. Considering how good Termagants are, this guy is also a must take with them. Good synapse node, a psyker, and doesn't have bad guns. Plus, spawns more guys. I never not use this guy.

Troops:

Warriors: Useful. Good options, decently survivable, and are good at shooting and CC, as well as provide Synapse. I always use these guys.
Hormagaunts: Useful. Really nice for providing your opponent with a decent threat. Kit them out with Toxin sacs and kill anything fleshy in CC, or Adrenal glands to kill vehicles.
Termagants: Must take. These guys have always made their points back to me, especially with a few Devourers thrown in.
Genestealers: Situational. Amazing statline, but really squishy. I've found it best to outflank them with a Broodlord. Otherwise, too expensive.
Rippers: Situational. I mean, they can get expensive, but Spinefists are hilariously fun on these guys.

Elites:

Hive Guard: Useful. Good guns, and can kill Skimmers and light infantry pretty well.
Lictors: Situational. Not bad, but kinda squishy, and expensive.
Zoanthropes: Useful. Synapse nodes, psykers, and decently survivable. Plus, can crack Land Raiders. Woo
Venomthropes: Must Take. I never leave these guys at home. They make your entire army survivable. Must have.
Haruspex: Situational. Again, not bad, and Tyrannocytes made them pretty good. not bad for a Nidzilla list.
Pyrovores: Situational. Pretty bad except for the fact of Tyrannocytes existing. With them, they're pretty terrifying.

Fast Attack:

Tyranid Shrikes: Useless. Easier to kill that Warriors, and cost the same. Yeah they're faster, but die to Boltguns. Tried them once, and they were meh.
Raveners: Situational. Again, scary in CC, and are Beasts, but I'd rather have Warriors honestly.
The Red Terror: Situational. He's a named Ravener. See above.
Sky Slashers: Useless. I'd rather have Rippers with Deep Strike.
Gargoyles: Useless. Almost situational, but really aren't worth it, even in CC with their Blind.
Harpy: Situational. Not bad, as Stranglethorn Cannons are good, but meh.
Hive Crone: Useful. Really good Anti-air, and good anti-skimmer and infantry. A very good choice.
Spore Mines: Situational. Not always worth taking, but certainly fun and terrifying to the opponent.

Heavy Support:

Carnifex Brood: Useful. Good melee options for killing vehicles, and good shooting options with long range blasts and Devourers.
Biovore Brood: Useful. Very goods unit. Can lay the hurt on the opponent, and they're dirt cheap. Especially good with the formation.
Trygon: Situational. I mean, why not take a Trygon Prime?
Trygon Prime: Useful. I love this guy. He is a HUGE threat when kitted out right. And if not dealt with immediately, can wreck serious face.
Mawloc: Useful. Gives us some AP2 Ignores Cover, which is always nice. Though he hasn't proven too useful to me most of the time. Still not bad though.
Exocrine: Useful. Plasma guns (yes GUNS) or a Plasma Cannon without Gets Hot. Definitely good.
Tyrannofex: Useful. Good gun options, really tough to take down, and even better with the addition of the Tyrannocyte.

I was going to do one but Krodarklorr seems to play both my armies and I agree with 90% of what he said!

I might just change a couple though

Tomb Blades: Must take
Necron Destroyers: Must take
Heavy Destroyers: Must take (either in HS or with the Destroyers)

Caveat to the above is Necron shooting has taken a hit and IMO these guys help to cover that hole as well as add allot of flexibility to a list. (very) basically replacing the Annihilation Barges you would "normally" take.

Arguable ones;

I would also include a Cryptek as an auto take, +1 to RP and 3 x Str5 AP3 shots for 65 points. Can put him in any unit with RP and he makes them so much better.

I personally am starting to want to save points on the Overlord and start taking either/or a Crpytek or a Lord instead.

I'd like to refer you to page 1 of the "strengths of the new Nids" thread. Great insights on all of the units and general agreement has been reached by the majority of the Tyranid community regarding their usefulness, give or take a plus or minus (uses a conventional A through F grading system)

 krodarklorr wrote:
Alright, I'll do one for the other codex I play, mainly because I'm bored. So, Tyranids it is!

HQs:

Hive Tyrant: Must Take. Duh? Is there any question here?
Tyranid Prime: Useful. I love this guy. But, I love Warriors, which the internet does not. I've had great success with him, both in shooting and CC. I like that he buffs Warriors.
Old One Eye: Situational. I mean, he's not bad, but there are way better options.
Deathleaper: Useful. This guy is awesomely fun, though not always the best choice.
Swarmlord: Useful. He's been really good to be, but a bit too expensive for what he is, especially since you have to take his Tyrant guard to make him survive.
Tervigon: Must take. Considering how good Termagants are, this guy is also a must take with them. Good synapse node, a psyker, and doesn't have bad guns. Plus, spawns more guys. I never not use this guy.

Troops:

Warriors: Useful. Good options, decently survivable, and are good at shooting and CC, as well as provide Synapse. I always use these guys.
Hormagaunts: Useful. Really nice for providing your opponent with a decent threat. Kit them out with Toxin sacs and kill anything fleshy in CC, or Adrenal glands to kill vehicles.
Termagants: Must take. These guys have always made their points back to me, especially with a few Devourers thrown in.
Genestealers: Situational. Amazing statline, but really squishy. I've found it best to outflank them with a Broodlord. Otherwise, too expensive.
Rippers: Situational. I mean, they can get expensive, but Spinefists are hilariously fun on these guys.

Elites:

Hive Guard: Useful. Good guns, and can kill Skimmers and light infantry pretty well.
Lictors: Situational. Not bad, but kinda squishy, and expensive.
Zoanthropes: Useful. Synapse nodes, psykers, and decently survivable. Plus, can crack Land Raiders. Woo
Venomthropes: Must Take. I never leave these guys at home. They make your entire army survivable. Must have.
Haruspex: Situational. Again, not bad, and Tyrannocytes made them pretty good. not bad for a Nidzilla list.
Pyrovores: Situational. Pretty bad except for the fact of Tyrannocytes existing. With them, they're pretty terrifying.

Fast Attack:

Tyranid Shrikes: Useless. Easier to kill that Warriors, and cost the same. Yeah they're faster, but die to Boltguns. Tried them once, and they were meh.
Raveners: Situational. Again, scary in CC, and are Beasts, but I'd rather have Warriors honestly.
The Red Terror: Situational. He's a named Ravener. See above.
Sky Slashers: Useless. I'd rather have Rippers with Deep Strike.
Gargoyles: Useless. Almost situational, but really aren't worth it, even in CC with their Blind.
Harpy: Situational. Not bad, as Stranglethorn Cannons are good, but meh.
Hive Crone: Useful. Really good Anti-air, and good anti-skimmer and infantry. A very good choice.
Spore Mines: Situational. Not always worth taking, but certainly fun and terrifying to the opponent.




Heavy Support:

Carnifex Brood: Useful. Good melee options for killing vehicles, and good shooting options with long range blasts and Devourers.
Biovore Brood: Useful. Very goods unit. Can lay the hurt on the opponent, and they're dirt cheap. Especially good with the formation.
Trygon: Situational. I mean, why not take a Trygon Prime?
Trygon Prime: Useful. I love this guy. He is a HUGE threat when kitted out right. And if not dealt with immediately, can wreck serious face.
Mawloc: Useful. Gives us some AP2 Ignores Cover, which is always nice. Though he hasn't proven too useful to me most of the time. Still not bad though.
Exocrine: Useful. Plasma guns (yes GUNS) or a Plasma Cannon without Gets Hot. Definitely good.
Tyrannofex: Useful. Good gun options, really tough to take down, and even better with the addition of the Tyrannocyte.

Gargoyles as useless but a trygon prime is useful? uhhh wut? lol

Agree with the guy above a little. But I think the tyranid book is a bit different. I think we have more formations than ANYONE else. And if you include the formations things change. Gargoyles I think are a useful unit normally. Taking them in a skyblight formation and they become incredible. Many units in the book are much better when added into a formation.

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Penitent Engine: Useless Okay, maybe Situational but probably not. Cheaper than a dreadnought but also more delicate than one. We all know the trouble Dreds have in the current rule set. BS2 but that's okay, they have 2! Heavy Flamers. Functions like a mini Furioso as it ignores the effects of crew shaken/stunned and has Rage. Not bad for 80 points but. Ugh. Front armour 11 and a 6++ don't do well on a melee only foot unit that also looks like a massive, massive target. Take in a squad of three (yeah, squads) and run them at someone to either draw fire or kill a few things. Used that way it might be good but they're too delicate to really count on.

I know the internets claims these are useless. My question is have you ever run them? Most sisters players I know have never done so and are just looking at them on paper. I will say I ran the repentant host (sans special rules) and 8 PEs with 3 squads of repentia did way better than expected. With the new damage table, PE's will still shrug off more damage than you expect (they ignore rolls of 1-3 - open topped means a 4 is actually a 5) and the 6+ save will happen more than you think. When run in squadrons, it is not uncommon for one to make it to where it needs to be.

I will couple this with you need support units (i.e. Dominions ans Seraphim) to get in their face to provide distractions. However, they will struggle against most MCs but they absolutely wreck vehicles (as do Repentia). But, as you say, the key is getting them there.

 997Turbo wrote:



Gargoyles as useless but a trygon prime is useful? uhhh wut? lol

I've had great success with a Trygon Prime, especially armed with the Maw-Claws. Gargoyles are very "meh" to me. They seem nice, but realistically have never done much. At least for me.

I'll go with the Tau Codex

HQ
Ethereal - Useful - A really cheap buffing machine who supports the rest of your cadre. The leadership 10 12" buble is of particular use due to the issues that Tau have with leadership, only reason he is not Must Take is he is very easy to kill and gives up an extra VP if he is killed.
Commander- Must Take - HE MAKES IT HAPPEN, seriously this guy hands out USR like nothing and is the centrepiece of many a Tau force. From buffing Markerlight drones with his BS5 to making units absolutely disgusting in the shooting phase, the Commander is without doubt one of the most versitle and best units in the Tau codex.
Cadre Fireblade - Situational- A solid choice with BS5 and a markerlight whilst being decently cheap, he buffs a single unit of firewarriors but pales in comparison to the Ethereal.

Slot-less
Bodyguards - Situational - They are essentially Crisis Suits but 10 points more expensive per model. Unless you have filled all your available elites slots and still want some crisis suits I see no reason why you would run them.

Special Characters
Commander Farsight - Useful - A solid character with a useful Warlord Trait and the ability to make a nasty deathstar, the "Farsight Bomb"
Commander Shadowsun - Useful - Again a good special character with some niche uses such as her command link drone. Stealth and Shrouded combos well with units to make them more difficult to kill from afar whilst a 3D6 Jetpack move if chosen as the Warlord makes her unit tough to catch in CC.
Aun'Va - Situational - A fairly fun Special Character with some uses and special rules, will rarely see play outside of the occasional friendly game.
Darkstrider - Useful - Quite an expensive character but she does have her uses, outflanking her with some railrifle pathfinders can make for some nasty AP1 ID on T4 Models, perfect for taking out things like, Space Marine characters/Tyranid Warriors.
Aun'Shi - Useless- No, just no.

Troops
Fire Warriors - Useful - 9pts per model for a S5 AP5 gun, yes please! but seriously, mount these guys in a Devilfish and scoot around taking objectives, then hop out and decimate some infantry. A solid choice.
Kroot - Useful - Kroot are a really good troops choice and have really diverse deployment options with infiltrate and Outflank (with Acute senses from a Kroot Hound of course). You can also give them sniper rounds for a really cheap cost so that they can take out stuff like Wraithknights.

Devilfish - Useful/Must Have - In 7th edition objectives are key and Tau troops are notoriously squishy. With a 12/11/10 with a potential 3+ cover save from disruption pods and Objsec these guys are your premiere objective taking units.

Elites
Crisis Suits - Must Have - The staple of many Tau forces and a personal favorite of mine, can be tailored to fill any holes in your list. They can go surprisingly unnoticed I find when next to their bigger brother...
Riptide - Useful/Must Have - There is a reason why many Tau lists take 2-3 or more of these. They are just that good. Incredibly durable and packing a seriously mean punch, these are the guys that allow you to get line-breaker, hold up a load of Flesh Hounds and provide great mobility and firepower for their cost. They shine best with markerlight support so make sure you have enough of that in there to help them out, an awesome unit!
Stealth Suits - Situational - 30pts for a 1 wound T3 model is too much, yes they have stealth and shrouded but they waste a precious elite slot which you will want to use for the choices above. Can be used to good effect in certain lists but require a certain niche play style.

Fast Attack
Drone Squadron - Useful - Markerlights with JSJ, mobile markerlights on a relatively durable platform, pair with commander for BS5 and added survivability.
Vespid - Situational - Against MEQ these guys could be worth it but the short range on their guns and 1 shot with BS3 they are very expensive for what they bring to the table.
Pathfinders - Useful - The cheapest source of Markerlights in the codex. Markerlights are what make Tau work. The only reason these guys are not Must Haves is that they are always targeted first and die even faster than Fire Warriors.
Pirhana - Useful/Must Take - These are cheap fast Skimmers with decent armament and are personal favorites of mine. They are the fastest components of a Tau army and can reposition easily. For thier 40 point cost (-24pts for the 2 Gun drones they come with!!!) they are a steal and I rarely leave home without some.
Sunshark Bomber/Razorshark Fighter - Situational - I have never fielded these guys because they look so horrible! but I can see some lists that would use these to good effect. In particular the drones that the bomber comes with can be particularly deadly as they can disembark before the flier is destroyed which it will be if your opponent has any decent source of AA.

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship - Situational - I really want to like the Hammerhead but I can't. the changes to how jink works and the nerf to AP1 in 7th really hurts this tank and although Longstrike Mitigates this slightly, I think there are better things to spend the points on if you want to pop tanks.
Broadside Battlesuits - Must Take - This unit used to be the bane of Heavy Tanks, now it is the Terror of EVERYTHING outside of AV14. Seriously, give these guys Missiles w/Missiles and Missile Drones (notice a theme here ) and they will tear their target to pieces. TL weapons means they don't even need markerlight's which can be used for your other units. Slap on EWO to stop those nasty fliers/drop pods from ruining you, An excellent choice.
Skyray Gunship - Useful - Skyfire Markerlights on a durable AV13 Platform with the potential for a 3+ cover save. 1 of these things combined with a crisis suit unit or broadside team can clean up a flyrant/stormraven in 1 turn. always give them SMS so they can take on light infantry when their missiles are gone.
Sniper Drones - Useful - An often overlooked choice in the wake of the other options in the Heavy Support slot. I take a unit occasionally and they always perform far better than you would expect, if you stick an Ethereal near them they are putting ALOT of BS5 Pulse Sniper shots down field which can deal serious damage to anything with a Toughness Value. The Marksmen also carry BS5 Markerlight's, if only they had splitfire

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Penitent Engine: Useless Okay, maybe Situational but probably not. Cheaper than a dreadnought but also more delicate than one. We all know the trouble Dreds have in the current rule set. BS2 but that's okay, they have 2! Heavy Flamers. Functions like a mini Furioso as it ignores the effects of crew shaken/stunned and has Rage. Not bad for 80 points but. Ugh. Front armour 11 and a 6++ don't do well on a melee only foot unit that also looks like a massive, massive target. Take in a squad of three (yeah, squads) and run them at someone to either draw fire or kill a few things. Used that way it might be good but they're too delicate to really count on.

I know the internets claims these are useless. My question is have you ever run them? Most sisters players I know have never done so and are just looking at them on paper. I will say I ran the repentant host (sans special rules) and 8 PEs with 3 squads of repentia did way better than expected. With the new damage table, PE's will still shrug off more damage than you expect (they ignore rolls of 1-3 - open topped means a 4 is actually a 5) and the 6+ save will happen more than you think. When run in squadrons, it is not uncommon for one to make it to where it needs to be.

I will couple this with you need support units (i.e. Dominions ans Seraphim) to get in their face to provide distractions. However, they will struggle against most MCs but they absolutely wreck vehicles (as do Repentia). But, as you say, the key is getting them there.

I've never run the Repentia host so I can't speak for them. However, I've run the engines a few times. The MAIN problem with them is this. They compete for a slot against Exorcists and Retributors and sometimes the Avenger strike fighter.

I only have 3 HS slots, 2 are always reserved for exorcists. The other one goes 85% of the time to the Avenger. The rest goes to the Rets. It's hard to justfy them in that slot. If they were in Elites I would take them, probably all the time since there's nothing else in Elites I would take.