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Just because it doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet Chronos is dumb RaW or I'm missing something. So you buy a tank and a Chronos. The tank receives benefits. When the tank dies Chronos teleports from wherever he was to exit the tank presumably even resurrecting if he had previously died denying STW if he was your warlord. Anyone see anything RaW against this?

Eh... AFAIK, he had a similar rule back in 5e. Chronos jumps out of the vehicle at the last moment, surveying the battlefield to met the Emperor's wrath against the enemy who dared to touch his former tank!
Anyway, the rule is to let him live, because it's more cinematic. And, outside the tank, he's just a marine.


In fact, Chronos should have been able to jump inside another tank in his Movement Phase.

I think the point your missing is nothing tells you not to deploy him normally with your army. So he runs around on his own. Then teleports to his tank when it dies or comes back to life to crawl out of it if the enemy had killed him.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Just because it doesn't appear to have been mentioned yet Chronos is dumb RaW or I'm missing something. So you buy a tank and a Chronos. The tank receives benefits. When the tank dies Chronos teleports from wherever he was to exit the tank presumably even resurrecting if he had previously died denying STW if he was your warlord. Anyone see anything RaW against this?

I'm not sure what exactly your problem with this is. If it helps, consider Chronus to be a driver and not an embarked passenger. Drivers normally die with the vehicle. In Chronus's case, if the vehicle is destroyed or removed as a casualty, he disembarks just as a normal passenger would. In the case of something like a Vindicator or Predator, there is no access point and he performs and emergency disembarkation.

Chronus is effectively just a tank driver who is smart enough to hop out of the tank when it gets destroyed.

Also, remember that the vehicle isn't the Warlord. Chronus is. If you want to slay him, you need to kill the tank to "knock him out into the open". Sticking him in something like a Land Raider definitely makes him more durable as he effectively has a 4HP, AV14 'shield' that you have to kill before you can hurt him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I think the point your missing is nothing tells you not to deploy him normally with your army. So he runs around on his own. Then teleports to his tank when it dies or comes back to life to crawl out of it if the enemy had killed him.

FlingitNow... my phone just died, so I can't read the rule. Would it be possible for you to post the full text of Chronus's applicable rules? I was under the impression that he has to be deployed 'inside' the tank you choose.

Ultramarines Tank Commander: When adding Sergeant Chronus to your army, you must also take a single Rhino, Razorback, Predator, Whirlwind, Vindicator, Hunter, Stalker, Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader or Land Raider Redeemer, paying the points cost listed on that vehicle’s datasheet as well as the 50 points for Sergeant Chronus. The chosen vehicle is a character and has Ballistic Skill 5. In addition, it has the It Will Not Die special rule and ignores the effects of Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results.

If the tank is Wrecked or suffers an Explodes! result, Sergeant Chronus is treated as a passenger. (Note that if the vehicle does not have an Access Point, he will have to perform an emergency disembarkation). Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

FlingItNow's point is that it does not state thatr he has to start the game embarked upon a vehicle, just that the designated vehicle is a character and BS5 etc

"When adding (Chronus), you must also take"

That really sounds like a Chronus + the additional choice, even if RaI is the opposite...

Yeah exactly nothing states (or even strongly implies) that you don't have a Chronos running around (except of course common sense), with a random tank getting some special rules that he then teleports out of when it dies.

Wow. This is incredibly poorly worded.

The obvious RaI is that Chronus start as a passenger of sorts in the Tank and is forced to disembark if the Tank gets whammied.

So... RaW issues.

1. What prevents us from deploying Chronus on the battlefield by himself?

2. If we don't 'deploy' him inside the Tank, what happens when the Tank is killed? He 'teleports' from wherever he is and disembarks? What if he's dead?

3. If we agree that Chronus has to be 'deployed' inside the Tank, does he take up a seat? I.e., if you put him in a Rhino, can the Rhino still fit 10 Infantry models?

4. Since you're required to ALSO take a Vehicle, does the Vehicle take up a slot on a Detachment's Force Organization Chart? I.e., if I take Chronus to lead my CAD and ALSO select a Land Raider, does the LR take up a Heavy Support slot, or does it share Chronus's HQ slot? Is the Battlefield Role HQ or HS?

HIWPI...

The spirit of the rule as well as the previous edition tells us that Chronus is to be 'deployed' inside the Vehicle he chooses. He takes up the 'driver' seat and therefore has no impact on the Transport Capacity, if there is one. He is specifically NOT treated as a passenger and therefore may not do things like fire from a fire point or willingly disembark in the Movement phase. The selected Vehicle shares his HQ slot and is effectively a 'command' version of the normal vehicle.

Let's just add it to the list of issues with the codex. Alongside the Chapter Masters in a Demi Company question, Iron Hands Chapter Tactics, no vehicles in a Chapter's Detachment and Captain Shrike being useless. This codex is pretty bad...

Just out of curiosity how is Shrike useless?

The wording of the new Infiltrate rule. Shrike can only join Jump Infantry, and Infiltrators can't join a squad without Infiltrate. RAW Shrike can't join anyone at Deployment because the 'vice versa' isn't defined well enough to be 100% clear.

Unless there's a Jump Infiltrate squad in the new Codex for Raven Guard and I missed it.

So the same "problem" as 6th edition. And most of 5th edition.

Didn't notice it in the previous editions. Was the problem the same? So he's another Shrike then...

Missed a chunk of the conversation... Yes Shrike's issue if anything has got worse with the change to infiltrate (he can't even deploy in your deployment zone with a unit now).

As for the issue at hand I agree with Kriswall's HYWPI. Though silly RaW is very silly.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
The wording of the new Infiltrate rule. Shrike can only join Jump Infantry, and Infiltrators can't join a squad without Infiltrate. RAW Shrike can't join anyone at Deployment because the 'vice versa' isn't defined well enough to be 100% clear.

He can still join Scouts if both are on the table. He is joining the Squad while deploying, not before. He can't jump while in the Squad, though.

Unless there's a Jump Infiltrate squad in the new Codex for Raven Guard and I missed it.

There's a Warlord Trait for that. Stupid that Shrike doesn't have it natively.

Charistoph wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
The wording of the new Infiltrate rule. Shrike can only join Jump Infantry, and Infiltrators can't join a squad without Infiltrate. RAW Shrike can't join anyone at Deployment because the 'vice versa' isn't defined well enough to be 100% clear.

He can still join Scouts if both are on the table. He is joining the Squad while deploying, not before. He can't jump while in the Squad, though.

Shrike can only join Jump units before deploying. Can't join Scouts until after Deployment which, to my understanding, means he's out in the open until controlling player's Movement Phase. But, this is derailing from Chronus's badly written rules.

So question regarding Chronos.

The rules state:

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

So until the destruction of the vehicle, what profile do you use (assuming he can walk around)?

The normal one on his profile just like every other HQ. Unless you're saying no HQ can be used as a model as default?

No, but Tank Commander seems to imply at least that you don't use his listed profile until after the vehicle is destroyed. As such, until that time there is no profile for the model.

 Happyjew wrote:
So question regarding Chronos.

The rules state:

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

So until the destruction of the vehicle, what profile do you use (assuming he can walk around)?

HJ... the issue is that we're never told NOT to use his own characteristic profile.

There needs to be wording saying to keep the Chronus model off the table UNTIL the vehicle he was selected with is wrecked or explodes. There is no such wording. If we're following strict RaW, he's a model in your army and has to be deployed along with the army at the start of the game. You'd either have to put him on the table, or in reserves, etc.

Imply perhaps certainly not strongly imply and even more certainly does not state.

The new Space Marine codex be like,



And us rules-guys be like,

He has no profile, the rules to field him says that he has no profile to use (besides tank he picks)until the tank is destroyed and he disembarks.

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

That implies that he is using the tanks profile with the extra rules till its destroyed. That's how it reads to me.

Bullveye wrote:
He has no profile, the rules to field him says that he has no profile to use (besides tank he picks)until the tank is destroyed and he disembarks.

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

That implies that he is using the tanks profile with the extra rules till its destroyed. That's how it reads to me.

That's just incorrect. Following that logic, all units ever would have to explicitly say 'this uses these stats on this page when on the table'. Which it doesn't have to do. A model uses the stats provided unless told otherwise. You are told otherwise AFTER the selected vehicle is destroyed, and there is no rule about what happens to him before then. So before then, he is treated like a normal model, just like every other model in the game that doesn't have special rules saying otherwise.

Bullveye wrote:
He has no profile, the rules to field him says that he has no profile to use (besides tank he picks)until the tank is destroyed and he disembarks.

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.

That implies that he is using the tanks profile with the extra rules till its destroyed. That's how it reads to me.

He DOES have a profile and the rules DO NOT actually say that. Maybe you're looking at the old 6e Codex? The new 7e Codex lacks any wording telling us that Chronus has to start in the Tank and doesn't use his profile until the Tank is destroyed/exploded.

Indeed the dex does lack stating that he starts in the tank. But it does state that

Assuming Sergeant Chronus survives his vehicle’s destruction, he uses his own characteristic profile and special rules as normal from that point on.
If he is not using his own stuff till its destroyed then what is he using as a model on the board? If using his model as tank and as on foot then in effect you have 2 of him which cant do as he is unique.

Just asking questions as curious.(don't play ultramarines)

That's the teleport part. He teleports to disembark from the vehicle that was wrecked, no matter where he was or even if he was dead.

The way to play is simple: he starts in the vehicle, disembarks when it's wrecked. No real problem there on the actual table, but as I said above, it's one of multiple problems in the new codex that are really just laughable. Most of these new problems are solved with common sense and two players that don't want to be dicks about the game.

RaW he starts on the board and a tank gets some special rules. When the tank dies he suddenly counts as a passenger of the tank (potentially taking an explodes result hit) then disembarks from the tank in effect teleporting (and resurrecting if he had died when on his own) to the tank from where ever he was on the board at the time of the tanks demise.

 FlingitNow wrote:
RaW he starts on the board and a tank gets some special rules. When the tank dies he suddenly counts as a passenger of the tank (potentially taking an explodes result hit) then disembarks from the tank in effect teleporting (and resurrecting if he had died when on his own) to the tank from where ever he was on the board at the time of the tanks demise.

100% correct.

I would expect most people will just play it that he's required to start in the tank though. That seems like the clear RaI in this case. RaW is just not well written.

Soooo...its that something of a biggy, to have a Techy profil dude teleport, with no significant weapons and rules outside a Tank?...

Really i would be okay with it, would make me an extra 3 Blood Tithe points once i kill the bugger...

...Assuming you kill him before you kill his vehicle. Otherwise, you just have him getting to run around for a couple turns prior to it getting exploded.