Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Has anyone been discussing the obvious AoS Scale change?
Is this the sign of GW's plans to come, change the Scale of future models to a larger scale, and subsequently force out all the smaller scale older models?
And that would also hurt the smaller independent miniature and bitz manufacturing companies, as well as stick FLGS with even more dead stock (does GW have a buyback policy yet?).
.
New Stormcast Eternal AoS models are larger than a SM Terminator (note both fluff are super humans);
http://tencopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/stormcast-eternal-size-comparison-1.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2hn10nb.jpg
and
http://itslikewatchingpaintdry.blogspot.com/2015/07/age-of-sigmar-liberator-size-comparison.html
.
FYI a few size comparison articles were already taken down, mostly the Chaos ones.

Added;
It amazes me the misplaced loyalty as GW blatantly screws over its customer base;
first AoS cans entire races, invalidating veterans players armies, FLGS dead stock, independent manufactures, and etc.
base size change, again invalidating models, independent base manufactures, and etc.
unfinished "skirmish" rules invalidating existing large 2000+ point armies
and now a blatant scale change, possibly designed to do all of the above, as well clear out GW old smaller scale models stock, only to release larger scale replacement models very soon.
etc.

Discuss.......

I would like to play AoS, but I won't buy outdated stock at full price.

Why would I buy dwarves when they will look incongruous with "steamdwarves". I didn't use my old confrontation models in my warhammer fantasy army. Infinity pulled the same silly gak. Some people won't care, but I do.

Photo for reference:

Newbie here. Has the scale changed immediately with AoS or was it gradual? Because I was thinking of getting some Khorne Wrathmongers to add to the models I got with the starter set, but if they look small in comparison to the Bloodreavers I might want to rethink.

When they bring out the new factions I expect certain miniature to definitely be bigger. I always considered warriors of chaos slightly larger than the average human due to chaos steroids. But Orruks will definitely be a similar size. There will still be human sized miniatures but now maw be closer to the marauders in the boxed set. Are trolls and ogres now not bulky enough?

It will be interesting to see what happens scale wise to the smaller guys. Like goblins, shaven and dwarves. Did the latest dwarf regiment scale well with the older stuff?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChazLikesCake wrote:
Newbie here. Has the scale changed immediately with AoS or was it gradual? Because I was thinking of getting some Khorne Wrathmongers to add to the models I got with the starter set, but if they look small in comparison to the Bloodreavers I might want to rethink.

The Wrathmongers from the ends times releases probably scale pretty well as they were already bigger than the chaos warriors and mounted on 40mm bases. So possibly similar to the stormcast externals in stature?

They definitely got bigger, the smallest bases they are mounted on are 32 mm bases! It looks like they went from 28mm scale to 32 mm heroic scale.

Not sure I like the size change as they take up more room now.

Zwan1One wrote:

The Wrathmongers from the ends times releases probably scale pretty well as they were already bigger than the chaos warriors and mounted on 40mm bases. So possibly similar to the stormcast externals in stature?

It's almost as if they knew AoS was coming.

Thanks, I'm glad the newer old models won't look completely out of place.

Said it once, and I'll say it again; the new Khorne Blood Warriors (the heavily armored ones) are the exact same height as the metal WoC Chosen models with Halberds. Exact same. I don't know what else to tell you guys, but it was the first thing I checked when I got them on bases. If new models on ogre sized bases are the same height as ogres...who cares? If Blood Warriors are the same size as Chosen, a kit that's been out for 5 years...what's the big deal?

I'd like to sell you guys a mole hill that I named "Mt. Vesuvius".

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Said it once, and I'll say it again; the new Khorne Blood Warriors (the heavily armored ones) are the exact same height as the metal WoC Chosen models with Halberds. Exact same. I don't know what else to tell you guys, but it was the first thing I checked when I got them on bases. If new models on ogre sized bases are the same height as ogres...who cares? If Blood Warriors are the same size as Chosen, a kit that's been out for 5 years...what's the big deal?

I'd like to sell you guys a mole hill that I named "Mt. Vesuvius".

.
lol, so the newer models are already getting bigger, nice.
.
Models getting bigger in scale is a huge problem if it continues, for game purposes, for Veteran players that have existing armies, and for GW (if customers realize it is happening, why would customers buy smaller scale models that are really just old stock and possibly soon to be replaced?)
.
GW already changed to round bases, now GW has been and is slowly sneaking in larger scale to possibly change the entire game scale!
.
Yep, no problems. Just put you head in the molehill everyone, nothing to see here...
.
Kings of War is really the only savior for customers that have 2000+ point armies.

 rexscarlet wrote:

.
lol, so the newer models are already getting bigger, nice.
.
Models getting bigger in scale is a huge problem if it continues, for game purposes, for Veteran players that have existing armies, and for GW (if customers realize it is happening, why would customers buy smaller scale models that are really just old stock and possibly soon to be replaced?)
.
GW already changed to round bases, now GW has been and is slowly sneaking in larger scale to possibly change the entire game scale!
.
Yep, no problems. Just put you head in the molehill everyone, nothing to see here...
.
Kings of War is really the only savior for customers that have 2000+ point armies.

Surely if the Warriors are as large as the Warriors of 5 years ago, which are a similar size to what looks like 10+ year old ogres, then this is a 5 year old issue and not a recent one?

I still have some super old Dark Elf models from when I was about 12, it's clear to me that citadel miniatures have been gradually growing in size over the years. The Stormcast are pretty huge, but if it's lore appropriate who cares? With AoS rules size actually works against them. But really, if the new Chaos are as big as the old Chaos, what's the problem?

I don't know, that really looks like they're going for truescale 28mm heroic.

I believe humans will still be ~28mm, while all the supposedly bigger guys (true scale sigmarines, towering khorne beefmonster blood warriors, and orcs) will actually be bigger. I mean... warriors of chaos were supposed to be huge, basically the size of the new blood warriors from the AoS set, so they're probably just sizing them appropriately.

If anything, I'd expect 40k to go the same direction with bigger orks and (finally) truescale marines.

Scale creep has been going on for ever. AOS represents a new obvious step because the boxed set and new game are making a big splash. People wouldn't have noticed so much if a new set of Dark Elf cavalry was a bit larger than the one it replaced..

Anyway GW certainly want players to buy all new AOS models to play the game. Making them incompatible with unofficial figures might be part of a cunning plan or not, who can tell?

If you put a Sigmarine next to a figure from LoTR they probably look pretty silly side by side.

Neither the Eternals or the Khorne guys give us any indication of how tall a human mortal is supposed to be.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

If you put a Sigmarine next to a figure from LoTR they probably look pretty silly side by side.

LOTR and WHFB were never meant to be the same scale though.

I don't think AOS is supposed to be the same scale as WHFB.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Scale creep has been going on for ever. AOS represents a new obvious step because the boxed set and new game are making a big splash. People wouldn't have noticed so much if a new set of Dark Elf cavalry was a bit larger than the one it replaced..

Anyway GW certainly want players to buy all new AOS models to play the game. Making them incompatible with unofficial figures might be part of a cunning plan or not, who can tell?

If you put a Sigmarine next to a figure from LoTR they probably look pretty silly side by side.

Exactly this, all the "who cares if the models get bigger" replies are not looking at the bigger picture (pun intended).
.
GW Screwing over, once again; current players armies, independent manufacturers, FLGS, and "new" customers that buy older models, only to have said models possibly be redone in a larger scale very very soon.
.

I think its a definite move to a bigger scale, all the models in the Khorne group of AoS are on 32mm + bases (all dated 2013 by the way so planned a while ago).

I mean more plastic costs GW a negligible amount and it makes almost any other companies range of minis redundant as Unit fillers etc.

Cynical but shrewd.

Well, its a different scale from WFB, but its not WFB. It a new game.

 notprop wrote:
I think its a definite move to a bigger scale, all the models in the Khorne group of AoS are on 32mm + bases (all dated 2013 by the way so planned a while ago).

I mean more plastic costs GW a negligible amount and it makes almost any other companies range of minis redundant as Unit fillers etc.

Cynical but shrewd.

Being on a 32mm for the Marauders doesn't mean they are actually bigger just that they are on a bigger base and since they were on 25mm squares before that isn't to crazy. I'd also say that if current marauders were posed similar to the new khorne marauders in the box set they'd be the same size. It's not scale creep, it's base creep.

Again, scale creep to me seems no larger in jump than some of the scale jumps within WHFB over the years.

The Island of Blood elves were noticibly taller than the previous elf minis, but I don't recall much outrage. Well, not to this level, anyway.

Did you end up buying new elf minis to replace all your older, shorter elves? I know I didn't.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Scale creep has been going on for ever. AOS represents a new obvious step because the boxed set and new game are making a big splash. People wouldn't have noticed so much if a new set of Dark Elf cavalry was a bit larger than the one it replaced..

Anyway GW certainly want players to buy all new AOS models to play the game. Making them incompatible with unofficial figures might be part of a cunning plan or not, who can tell?

If you put a Sigmarine next to a figure from LoTR they probably look pretty silly side by side.

I don't know, remember Mark of Chaos trailer? Remember how huge the Chaos Warriors were there? That's the size they were supposed to be. I believe that new Warrior models will be of the size of a Sigmarine, because that's how big they're supposed to be. And Sigmarines look like they should of similar size, so yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNFGJQIW5ZM

As I said earlier - I believe they're going for less relative scale. A few years ago all the miniatures were of the same height, now they differ. You can't talk about scale creep like it's happening everywhere equally - Sigmarines are obviously larger than Marauders, so are the Blood Warriors. Back in the day they'd be the same size, which is not the case - models differ now. For all we know, the regular human might still be 28mm heroic or slightly taller 30mm, but the Marauders may still be visibly taller than them. I mean... just look at those models - they're huge, absurdly ripped gladiator-like bodybuilders. Do you really think that a regular human will be of the same height as those models if there's such difference between them and the 'bigger' guys like Sigmarines and Bloodzerkers?

Sure, it might turn out that way and I will admit that my assumptions were wrong, but they might actually be going for true scale models (finally).

EDIT: I believe that the new high elves were taller, because the old high elves were... kinda chunky - 40k 5th ed level of chunky. Instead of making them thinner, they just stretched them upwards a little. Also the new HE were marginally taller (and looked a lot better in that new scale, so it only worked for the better for them) as far as I remember.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If you put a Sigmarine next to a figure from LoTR they probably look pretty silly side by side.

Here you go. LoTR model on far right



In fairness, the Stormcast Eternal is an immortal superhuman, hand-picked by the God-King and infused with his powers.

I can confirm, the new chaos warriors and marauders are very close in height to the old ones. They look bigger because the sculpts are thicker.

They've been making their models bigger than the previous incarnations for decades.

Compare an RTB001 SM with a current one.
Or an orignal metal RT terminator with the current ones.

In fantasy, the old cauldron of blood for the Delfs is small compared to the fisher price plastic one.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I think its a definite move to a bigger scale, all the models in the Khorne group of AoS are on 32mm + bases (all dated 2013 by the way so planned a while ago).

I mean more plastic costs GW a negligible amount and it makes almost any other companies range of minis redundant as Unit fillers etc.

Cynical but shrewd.

Being on a 32mm for the Marauders doesn't mean they are actually bigger just that they are on a bigger base and since they were on 25mm squares before that isn't to crazy. I'd also say that if current marauders were posed similar to the new khorne marauders in the box set they'd be the same size. It's not scale creep, it's base creep.

Yeah I know what you mean I just think that this seems like a good juncture for GW to differentiate their range on scale. They might not of course, but I don't think we'll know for sure until the first "other" range is released as Chaos has been a bit all over the place in the past and Sigmarites are biggerised from the get go.

Bigger scale or not I'm not too bothered as I'm really enjoying these new models.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Said it once, and I'll say it again; the new Khorne Blood Warriors (the heavily armored ones) are the exact same height as the metal WoC Chosen models with Halberds. Exact same. I don't know what else to tell you guys, but it was the first thing I checked when I got them on bases. If new models on ogre sized bases are the same height as ogres...who cares? If Blood Warriors are the same size as Chosen, a kit that's been out for 5 years...what's the big deal?

I'd like to sell you guys a mole hill that I named "Mt. Vesuvius".

I'm with this one ^. The blood reavers are about the same size as marauders. The Blood warriors are the same size as chosen. The sigmarites are an entirely new, superhuman faction - they're allowed to be any size they like.

The bases changed size, but in AoS they're only there to hold up your model anyway. This means nothing.

Zero evidence of scale creep (well, anymore than has been going on since the game's inception - look at an 80s chaos warrior), and a bunch of posts on the internet crying foul.

Here. You're all welcome. Metal chosen (without a head), blood warrior, Archaon on foot. Archaon dwarfs the other two, but the shoulders of the chosen are slightly higher than the running warrior. Which makes sense since the warrior is lunging forward a tiny bit. Can we kill the thread now?

@timetowaste85 - thank you yes, and PLEASE!

Yep, scale creep is normal, old armies are not being invalidated, bases do not need replacing, nothing to see here.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Here. You're all welcome. Metal chosen (without a head), blood warrior, Archaon on foot. Archaon dwarfs the other two, but the shoulders of the chosen are slightly higher than the running warrior. Which makes sense since the warrior is lunging forward a tiny bit. Can we kill the thread now?

Nice, Archaeon, a giant (bigger than the mounted one) one-off rushed figure GW had made because of a rule that if a characters monster mount was killed, the player needed the character on foot or he was dead, and mounted Archaeon was not selling.

As for the comparison to old 25mm metal GW figure size to current plastic 32-40mm GW size, yep, scale creep has been happening all along, but in the old days, GW did this to screw other manufacturers of 25mm figures (Ral Partha, etc. where you could buy figures for 25% the cost), then in conjunction with "GW only" rule pushed out other manufacturers models, screwing flgs stock, players with existing armies, and etc. see the similarity?

The same is happening now with AoS, but now there are tons of other than GW manufacturers, tons of existing whfb players, and etc. that just did get screwed over, and are going to get screwed over more by the scale change.

GW business as usual. Buyer Beware.