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Its been a few months and yet I still want to gouge my eyes out at what AoS is. I spent roughly 500 on Chaos Dwarfs from FW and roughly 200 on Bretonnians so that I could hop in on the endtimes. Now im sitting here with an empty wallet and two half assembled armies that I cant bring myself to even look at. I tried AoS and quit halfway through my fith or sixth game and havent looked back.
Tried watching a lets play of Mordheim on youtube and got the same blues.

Is there any chance GW might bring back WFB? Like actual blocks of infantry?

Have you tried Kings of War? They are writing lists to accommodate orphaned rank and flank fans

 Nurgle wrote:

Is there any chance GW might bring back WFB? Like actual blocks of infantry?

I very much doubt it. AoS is supposed to be an 'easier' game to get into - rank and flank is actually a pretty complicated concept compared to moving individual models - although physically moving then is easier...
It also creates the barrier of entry - it was very rare that a single box of infantry made a viable in-game unit, whereas in 40k 1 box made a unit in most cases.

 Eldarain wrote:
Have you tried Kings of War? They are writing lists to accommodate orphaned rank and flank fans

This. If rank and file is what you're after in a game, I think KoW is your only long term option; Legacy 8th will die out, and I have my suspicions that 9th age will implode at some point.

Nurgle: how many wargamers in your locality feel the same way?

RoperPG wrote:

I very much doubt it. AoS is supposed to be an 'easier' game to get into - rank and flank is actually a pretty complicated concept

That's what makes it better for older gamers.

It also creates the barrier of entry - it was very rare that a single box of infantry made a viable in-game unit

I don't think GW's 10-model boxes were the fault of the rank 'n' flank concept, though.

Legacy 8th will die out

It will with that attitude, young man.

Betrayal of that magnitude is not something you get over easily, I still have open wounds from the phantom menace.

RoperPG wrote:

This. If rank and file is what you're after in a game, I think KoW is your only long term option; Legacy 8th will die out, and I have my suspicions that 9th age will implode at some point.

Why? It's bigger every day.

Every release brings more people (going by website traffic), and events routinely sell out.

If 9th age can defeat "officialdom" mentality wherein rules have to be written by an official company or else be ignored, they will have accomplished something historic.

jouso wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

This. If rank and file is what you're after in a game, I think KoW is your only long term option; Legacy 8th will die out, and I have my suspicions that 9th age will implode at some point.

Why? It's bigger every day.

Every release brings more people (going by website traffic), and events routinely sell out.

Because eventually, the amateurs (by true definition) giving up their time to produce/test it will get fed up of being screamed at on the internet for doing it wrong. Which *will* happen.

You aren't the only one.

I'm currently finishing 12 Fantasy armies and 3 tables for my house. And then It's done, I can play 8th whenever I want and at least have some cool armies and some awesome scenery to boot.

It hurts to see something you love being killed, and something terrible take it's place.

It's like how great music struggles to be found and played, and gak pop music takes over the radio all for the sake of simplicity. Because the majority always looks for rock bottom. The lowest common denominator.

8th will die out. It has no official support and the competitive scene almost fully switched to KoW / 9th with the former having received a big increase in support.

My wife and I pulled all competitive support for WHFB a while ago and fully transitioned to KoW, receiving huge positive support and a steady increase in participants for our tournaments - we went from ~30 participants in our major bi-annual tournaments to ~42 and received a big amount of newer players, praising our decision as it's much, much easier to get into KoW than it is to get into WHFB.

I'm not so much saddened by the change of game as much as the change of universe. There was so much there that was just abandoned. I liked the idea of End Times a lot, but they took it too far. The world should have been reshaped with some new threats replacing old, and some heroes and villains slain, but instead they blew up the whole thing. So I, too, am still sad about the loss of WFB.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
You aren't the only one.

I'm currently finishing 12 Fantasy armies and 3 tables for my house. And then It's done, I can play 8th whenever I want and at least have some cool armies and some awesome scenery to boot.

It hurts to see something you love being killed, and something terrible take it's place.

It's like how great music struggles to be found and played, and gak pop music takes over the radio all for the sake of simplicity. Because the majority always looks for rock bottom. The lowest common denominator.

Preaching to the choir about that spammed pop music.
No pun intended.

I'm pretty bummed about the loss of the model kits. However, my first fantasy love (Bretonnia) was on life support for a long time before AoS - so i can't blame their decline on that.

I would not plan on GW reviving the WFB ruleset...But that certainly does not mean you can't keep it alive on your table.

I have a 2000pt Chaos force that I will be adding AoS stuff to and just rebasing them. I also have 3000pts of goblins that are being used for 8th and plan on getting a load of Perry's war of the roses dudes to use as Empire

The one thing that does annoy me is why could they not at lease keep the square bases going? AoS even says bases do not matter so why make them round at all.

Daston wrote:

The one thing that does annoy me is why could they not at lease keep the square bases going? AoS even says bases do not matter so why make them round at all.

One reason is practical - square/rectangular bases scream out to be ranked up. Which in turn requires the miniatures on them to tesselate properly, because if they don't then people get annoyed, because they expect them to match up, because they're on square bases.

Second, because round bases usually look better (if you have zero consideration for rules taken into account). My group have been steadily rebasing onto round, and it really is surprising how much better minis look on them.

I'm enjoying AoS now, although I'll admit I didn't when it came out. There's a good foundation to build on there, but that's not really on topic.

Yeah, I'm still miffed about the End Times, too.

There really wasn't a need to do what they did, which is to blow up the world we'd all spent so much time playing in and developing our own characters and cities and armies and so on and so forth for. It's akin to WotC saying, 'Hey guys, all your D&D characters are dead now, as we've made it canon that Krynn was sucked into a black hole.' Regardless of the story that accompanied it (and I'm not that crazy about the End Times narrative, either), no one's happy when a company pulls the sandbox it gave you to play in away and kicks over all the sandcastles you made.

We still have our models, and to some extent, we still have our stories (if headcanon'd into an alternate universe where End Times didn't happen), but we don't have access to the security of knowing there will be players in the foreseeable future, or knowing that the models we want to buy will be there in the future. And that's a shame.

What's the most frustrating to me is that AoS could have so easily existed alongside it; they could have had their cake and eaten it, too. But it is what it is.

It's been said countless times but the best thing to do is play whatever system you can get games in as long as you enjoy it at least a little. Personally I don't really get AoS and rebasing is not on my to-do list at all so I'm all aboard the 9th age train. And yes, I also agree that it's going to be a hard slog to get it off the ground but things are looking brighter what with some miniatures companies openly stating they want to sculpt models for T9A, including one exclusively. And I have to say the vast majority of traffic on T9A website is very civil for wargaming standards, mainly because people enjoy the interaction at every level of the design process and don't get too frustrated about things, which is in stark contrast to a company who disables comments on their YouTube videos...

RoperPG wrote:

jouso wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

This. If rank and file is what you're after in a game, I think KoW is your only long term option; Legacy 8th will die out, and I have my suspicions that 9th age will implode at some point.

Why? It's bigger every day.

Every release brings more people (going by website traffic), and events routinely sell out.

Because eventually, the amateurs (by true definition) giving up their time to produce/test it will get fed up of being screamed at on the internet for doing it wrong. Which *will* happen.

You're probably not aware on the scale that 9th age is working then.

There's a good 150-200 people working in there and while there have been some drop outs, there's new people to pick up after them. No miniature company could hope to employ this many people in rules development/support and still turn a profit.

Check it out:

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?team/

Eternal flitter wrote:
It's been said countless times but the best thing to do is play whatever system you can get games in as long as you enjoy it at least a little. Personally I don't really get AoS and rebasing is not on my to-do list at all so I'm all aboard the 9th age train. And yes, I also agree that it's going to be a hard slog to get it off the ground but things are looking brighter what with some miniatures companies openly stating they want to sculpt models for T9A, including one exclusively. And I have to say the vast majority of traffic on T9A website is very civil for wargaming standards, mainly because people enjoy the interaction at every level of the design process and don't get too frustrated about things, which is in stark contrast to a company who disables comments on their YouTube videos...

It's very civil because people who don't care about it don't spend their days trashing their forums. Unlike here.

jouso wrote:


You're probably not aware on the scale that 9th age is working then.

There's a good 150-200 people working in there and while there have been some drop outs, there's new people to pick up after them. No miniature company could hope to employ this many people in rules development/support and still turn a profit.

Check it out:

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?team/

I'm not suggesting 9th age is bad or half-assed. It's just the internet is the internet.

RoperPG wrote:

jouso wrote:


You're probably not aware on the scale that 9th age is working then.

There's a good 150-200 people working in there and while there have been some drop outs, there's new people to pick up after them. No miniature company could hope to employ this many people in rules development/support and still turn a profit.

Check it out:

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?team/

I'm not suggesting 9th age is bad or half-assed. It's just the internet is the internet.

And we've had our share of that.

If you ask any player they will tell its their army that's been nerfed the worst (the HE thread was like 20 pages long after a few hours).

But people are still on board.

This is not a one-man (or few-men) team like, say, Furion's excellent reworking of warhammer. In some regards it was better than 9th age, but dropped because it was basically a one-man drive. If someone burns out or has a case of real life, someone else steps in or is promoted.

Eternal flitter wrote:And yes, I also agree that it's going to be a hard slog to get it off the ground but things are looking brighter what with some miniatures companies openly stating they want to sculpt models for T9A, including one exclusively. And I have to say the vast majority of traffic on T9A website is very civil for wargaming standards, mainly because people enjoy the interaction at every level of the design process and don't get too frustrated about things, which is in stark contrast to a company who disables comments on their YouTube videos...

No surprise. This all happened before with SGs. Contrary to popular thought that players given the reins will tear a game apart, great things happen when people work on a thing for the love of it, rather than because the accountants want to sell more minis, or sell more of that faction. Case in point:

Haechi wrote:It's very civil because people who don't care about it don't spend their days trashing their forums. Unlike here.

Why do you think people here don't care? Why else would they be here? They played these games, loved them, and watched them go downhill thanks to faulty logic and obstinate decisions - that's going to stick even when they move onto other games. The gamers who really don't care about GW's core 2 are all off on other forums.
As Eternal Flitter said, one of the differences between there and here is that players over there are actually listened to. You might be surprised how far that goes, how much frustration it cuts out.

That's not the point. The point is people who dislike AoS are polluting the AoS forums all over the internet. You might think it's fair because you're angry at the loss of WHFB, but I, like many others, never played WHFB and really enjoy AoS, and I shouldn't have to through hate messages everyday just so I can have a conversation with others like me.

 Haechi wrote:
That's not the point. The point is people who dislike AoS are polluting the AoS forums all over the internet. You might think it's fair because you're angry at the loss of WHFB, but I, like many others, never played WHFB and really enjoy AoS, and I shouldn't have to through hate messages everyday just so I can have a conversation with others like me.

Then don't open threads with titles like "I still feel depressed about WFB ending" because you're pretty much guaranteed to read some sort of AoS-bashing.

There's plenty of positive threads about AoS, here and elsewhere. Mostly dealing with specific releases, tactics or army-specific topics.

jouso wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
That's not the point. The point is people who dislike AoS are polluting the AoS forums all over the internet. You might think it's fair because you're angry at the loss of WHFB, but I, like many others, never played WHFB and really enjoy AoS, and I shouldn't have to through hate messages everyday just so I can have a conversation with others like me.

Then don't open threads with titles like "I still feel depressed about WFB ending" because you're pretty much guaranteed to read some sort of AoS-bashing.

There's plenty of positive threads about AoS, here and elsewhere. Mostly dealing with specific releases, tactics or army-specific topics.

This. So, so much.

Also, people who assume that a game (or anything, really) can live in a void, bereft of all possible negative feedback from prospect players or just downright critics that enjoy games in the same niche (in this case, wargamers) are... not sporting a very realistic view of things. Every game will have to deal with criticism - be it from the baggage they carry with (from their IP like, say, Star Wars, or past editions - 40k is getting a serious case of this at the moment.). Of course, this works the other way around, too - the simple proof of this is that AoS would not even be looked at if it wasn't being pushed by GW. End of.

Now, one cannot disregard critics (or "hater hipsters", as I saw mentioned in another thread ) just because they have a different point of view, especially when their critic stems from the very thing that makes the game viable in the first place - its legacy as a sort of WFB's spiritual successor.

To the OP - Yeah, you can pretty much forget about the Old World getting back by GW's hands, really. Your best bet really is KoW and (imo) 9th Age.

9th Age isn't supported. Not worth playing.

 Haechi wrote:

Eternal flitter wrote:
It's been said countless times but the best thing to do is play whatever system you can get games in as long as you enjoy it at least a little. Personally I don't really get AoS and rebasing is not on my to-do list at all so I'm all aboard the 9th age train. And yes, I also agree that it's going to be a hard slog to get it off the ground but things are looking brighter what with some miniatures companies openly stating they want to sculpt models for T9A, including one exclusively. And I have to say the vast majority of traffic on T9A website is very civil for wargaming standards, mainly because people enjoy the interaction at every level of the design process and don't get too frustrated about things, which is in stark contrast to a company who disables comments on their YouTube videos...

It's very civil because people who don't care about it don't spend their days trashing their forums. Unlike here.

Absolutely true which is why I don't roll around AoS threads just to troll. I believe saying I dislike something once is sufficient to get the point across. However, there's still stuff to talk about and ultimately we're all still playing a fantasy war game.

 Haechi wrote:
That's not the point. The point is people who dislike AoS are polluting the AoS forums all over the internet.

But it's the point you brought up. Wondering why the kind of people who 'don't care' aren't 'polluting' the 9th Age forums.

Simplest answer is, as said, they do care.
Unravelling it a bit more, the people who care about 9th Age are mostly off on the 9th Age forum, caring about it. People on Dakka who care about GW-supported 8th ed don't really have too many other big places to visit online, that aren't focussing on AoS; and this is still, ostensibly, the Warhammer Fantasy section of Dakka. And they've recently experienced what lots of WFB players have experienced before: they and the game they care about have been gazumped by a game that might sell more minis. Only this time it involves a little more than random charge distances and hordes.

You might think it's fair because you're angry at the loss of WHFB, but I, like many others, never played WHFB and really enjoy AoS, and I shouldn't have to through hate messages everyday just so I can have a conversation with others like me.

Emphasis mine. Well, I guess you don't really get why people miss Warhammer. What have you played before?

And yeah, what Jouso said.

Also, I dropped WFB back about 6th-7th edition. But I still like the fluff and kept up on new mini releases, to see what I could use in other rules (most of my Dragon Rampant daydreams involve the old world), and also to see if GW would come to their senses and make WFB more about tactics, less about exploiting army books and spamming builds.

They didn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
9th Age isn't supported. Not worth playing.

Not sure if serious...

 Vermis wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
9th Age isn't supported. Not worth playing.

Not sure if serious...

50% chance.

Not that being supported prevented me from having a Blood Bowl weekend.

Actually I positively dread GW putting their sticky, cash-hungry fingers on it again.

 Haechi wrote:
That's not the point. The point is people who dislike AoS are polluting the AoS forums all over the internet. You might think it's fair because you're angry at the loss of WHFB, but I, like many others, never played WHFB and really enjoy AoS, and I shouldn't have to through hate messages everyday just so I can have a conversation with others like me.

*scratches head*

Hmm, It's almost like the 'Aos general discussion and background' forum is a place to discuss Aos related topics, such as why one may like or even why one dislikes the game.

You don't get to censor people's opinions, especially on a board called 'general discussion' and if people have less than pleasant things to say about the game, they are fully entitled to say those things on said board. And maybe it suggests that (shock, horror!) there may be flaws or genuine issues with said game? Smoke and fires, and all that. You don't get to just hand wave away negative points and positions as 'polluting the forums'. This isn't an echo chamber my good man. Nor are we living under a regime that promotes censorship or allows for only 'haechi's vetted and approved opinions' to be posted. People have good, and bad things to say about Aos. Accept it and deal with it. If you can't deal with people having negative opinions about something you like, and shock, horror, discussing and talking about said negative opinions(you know... on a forum, which of all things, exists as a platform to discuss and talk about things, and a 'general Aos discussion' forum at that!), and can only resort to name calling and childish dismissals of said negative viewpoints, (rather than discussing proactive and empowering ways and means of getting the most out of Aos, and by extension, other wargames) then maybe the Internet is the wrong place to be hanging out.