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So what do you all think it is? I only have real experience playing Dark Eldar, Marines, a bit of Tau and Orks.

I would personally say an ork warboss is up there, the number of points you have to dole out just to field an ork army sucks at anything under 1000 or 1200pts, over that it is easier to hide the cost.

There is NOTHING in the marine codex that is overvalued, only things that aren't as crazy undervalued.

Also, from watching strangelooper play a lot of 'nids I think that the broodlord is up there.

Shining Spears

Quite possibly the worst cost/benefit unit in the game.

Shining Spears, no contest. For the point cost of one you could get much better results from any codex, regardless of the rest of your army's composition. They are that bad.

Well, I don't play Eldar, so I don't know Shining Spears.

I'd have to put the Broodlord up there (he's not just his own points - there's his min retinue to figure in the cost of as well).

What about Ogryns, Land Raiders, and Lictors...?

I'd say in this order: Shining Spears Ogryns Eldar Jet bikes Ravenwing bikes Broodlord Ork Warboss I'm sure there is more, but those were off the top of my head. Capt K

Yeah, shining spears for sure, followed by Eldar, Dark Eldar, Marine and Marine Scout Bikers (i.e. any biker except maybe ork bikers). Mortar teams. Stormtroopers. Hellions. Ogryns.

Sisters Repentia are pretty awful.

From what I've played I'd say it was the lictor, I'm sure there are worse, but the only armies I play are guard and nids.

Repentias, I should GET points, for using a unit, which is so breakable and strikes last.
and Biker. Ork Bikes are nasty but also too breakable.

Did someone say that Ork bikers AREN'T overcosted?

They're 2 points less than a Marine Bike and no where NEAR the statline at all, quite litterally the crappiest thing on 2 wheels (Ok, 1 wheel and a tread).

Leman Russ Conquerer. An terrible tank that became just that much worse when everybody got move-and-fire ordinance upon 4th edition.

Chosen of Tzeentch.  27 points of bland Marine-ness.

Eh, orc bikers aren't too bad. They at least get great dakka gun, and can do some real damage. They're just fragile for their points.
Now Blood Angels Veteran Assault Squad? They were overpriced before, but now that regular assault marines are only 22 points, they become even less of a viable choice.
But like so many other overpriced units, they dont come close to the Shining Spears. Back in my crazy days, I tried to field 6 units of 3 of them, all for only 1200 points!

My dice.  They don't roll worth a damn.

Bikes in general, with Shining Spears being the worst offender.

Ogryn. 1KSons. Terminators in general (Assault Cannons notwithstanding). Obliterators (70 points for a T4(5) model that cannot be hidden!). Flesh Hounds. Screamers. Plaguebearers. Tzeentch in general.

BYE

Pariahs.

Feral Ork Weirdboyz are really, really bad. 50pts for a Ld8 psycher who needs to roll to hit (BS3) after he manages to cast his one decent power (which is S8... but AP-!!!), can headbang, and runs away if not in a unit (but is still an independant character)?

Pariahs were the first thing that came to my head. But Shining Spears are pretty overcosted too. I always thought that Possessed were overpriced, but not as bad as pariahs or shining spears. WH Stormtroopers seem way overcosted when compared to the 1 point more Sisters in the same codex, what with power armor, bolters, and faith. Speaking of =I=, there's the Daemonhosts.

But all in all I have to say Pariahs. I'd really like to field them for the cool leadership killing ability, but it really doesn't seem worth it. At least Shining Spears can be a move/fire/move BS5 (or was it 4) bright lance. That's kinda cool.

Oh, and Scourges.  There was some bad planning in that unit.  Speaking of DE, Reaver Jetbikes should get a further decrease in cost now that turboboost isn't a special ability.

My winner is the Liktor after losing his 3ed wound he is not worth his points and for the same price I can get an Avatar. Shining Spears even have the chance to do something when used well. Liktor just scares unexpirenced players until they see how bad he performs in CC.

Obliterators are overpointed HBMC? Sure, thats why di Tomaso had six or so in the GT final...

Ravenwing bikes. Waaaaaaaaay too darned expensive now.

lol oblits. i think not. they're so SO powerful.

anyway, scout bikes aren't as bad as shining spears, with meltabombs, pfist, skilled rider, you get 5 for 175 pts. they've got 30" first turn charge range and can kill most single models... which isn't worth 175 pts, but they are funny to use. usually die, but are more useful than normal marine bikes.

 

brood lord again i'm surprised to see him there. he works well with a nid swarm, he's choppy enough to chase people away, into your hormagaunts.. and also provides a forward synapse that gaunts can fall forwards to.

lictor is useful as well, in a nid swarm it brings on your hormagaunts from reserve faster, can deepstrike into combat with something, you can use it to tie up the enemy so they're not shooting, and to let your gaunts charge them, and then once your gaunts have arrived you can hit and run with the lictor, its the same size (size 2) as a gaunt combat so you can hide behind the combat and not get shot at by other size 2 things, and then you can charge the unit again, or a different unit if you want.

so anyway, a lot of those units mentioned have utility, they're fragile and have a poor damage/cost ratio, but thats not the reason you buy them, you use them if they'll gonna compliment the rest of your army, and they can do some unique things.

Obliterators are mini squads in themselves. Fearless, 2 wound, termie armor, powerfist and everything Chaos has to offer sans the battle cannon. I guess at 70 points a piece, people could see them as overpriced... HAHAHAHA

Land Raider, sad to say would be my vote. 250 points for 2 twin linked lascannons, twinlinked bolter and armor 14. Cool idea and fun to use but can die way too easy.

Maybe if Oblits were still T5 like they originally were, then no, they would not be overpriced. But the T4(5) nerf means that they're just as easy to kill with a Lascannon as a Guardsman in cover. Oblits are an easy way to get VP's back. There are so few of them, they can't hide behind things, they're not hard to kill, and you net 70 points for each one.

BYE

Posted By Spooky on 05/16/2006 8:16 AM

lol oblits. i think not. they're so SO powerful.

anyway, scout bikes aren't as bad as shining spears, with meltabombs, pfist, skilled rider, you get 5 for 175 pts. they've got 30" first turn charge range and can kill most single models... which isn't worth 175 pts, but they are funny to use. usually die, but are more useful than normal marine bikes.

 

brood lord again i'm surprised to see him there. he works well with a nid swarm, he's choppy enough to chase people away, into your hormagaunts.. and also provides a forward synapse that gaunts can fall forwards to.

lictor is useful as well, in a nid swarm it brings on your hormagaunts from reserve faster, can deepstrike into combat with something, you can use it to tie up the enemy so they're not shooting, and to let your gaunts charge them, and then once your gaunts have arrived you can hit and run with the lictor, its the same size (size 2) as a gaunt combat so you can hide behind the combat and not get shot at by other size 2 things, and then you can charge the unit again, or a different unit if you want.

so anyway, a lot of those units mentioned have utility, they're fragile and have a poor damage/cost ratio, but thats not the reason you buy them, you use them if they'll gonna compliment the rest of your army, and they can do some unique things.

Actually, I don't think it's that some of these units are over-costed; it's that they're under-powered, and often became under-powered in the transition from 3rd-4th edition or old-to-new codicies. Except for most bikes. Apparently bikes have almost always been a bad idea. Who knew?

I'd also argue that possessed and chosen are pretty overpriced (or underpowered), and while I might take some flack for this, so are Grey Knights (regular). Do they need to be more expensive than marines? Sure, but not almost twice as expensive (either that, or regular marines need to be 20points).   

Regular marines are undercosted. The "Shall know no fear" rule is amazing. Auto Regrouping and not counting as moving is priceless. Under half strength regrouping... This is why I argue Necron Warriors should only cost 15 points. Yes the ability to get back up is great but everytime I lose a combat my heart stops beating for a split second. That or make Necrons fearless. But I digress.

Ha! HBMC you are on crack! hehe. Oblits over costed? Do the math.

(2/3) to Hit, * (5/6) to wound * (2/3) to kill = .37 or 37%

Conclusion 9/.37= 24.3 las cannon shots to kill 9 oblits....over a 6 turn game.

Anyone still wonder why they adjusted them to  T 4(5) instead of straight T5? (hint: it would take 48.6 las cannon shots to kill them otherwise)

Overcosted they are not...

Capt K

Those 9 Oblits are also 35% of an 1850 force, and only IW can do that. Any other Chaos force has a limit of 3. 3 Oblits = 210. 8 Havocs w/4 Tank-Hunting MLs = 224.

It takes 3 Lascannon wounds to kill the Oblits. It'll take 8 to kill all the Oblits.

As I've said, if Oblits were base T5, then they would not be over-costed. In fact, they'd probably be undercosted. At T4(5) though, no. Too easy to decimate.

BYE

Overcosted or not, a lot of the power of 9 oblits is in target saturation instead of the statline.  That plus all the other hard stuff in IW just overwhelms the opponent's available lascannons.