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So, Death From the Skies dropped in on the 40k scene this past Saturday.

The book is 160 pages, with the lion's share of content being dedicated to the updated rules for the various flyers, the "Air War Campaign" missions, and the rules for the new Dogfight phase. The first 58 pages are fluff and art plates, showcasing "famous squadrons" from the lore.

I, personally, am fairly happy with it. Dogfights are a thing which are kind of interesting. Only one Dogfight can occur per game turn and they can be done out of sequence(if you are going second but win the Interception sub-phase, you become the Attacker and the other person becomes the Defender).

The Dogfight phase is broken into four sub-phases:
1. Interception
2. Engage
3. Manoeuvre
4. Attack

1. Interception is each player rolling a dice, adding 1 if you have more Fighters than Bombers in Reserve and subtracting 1 if you have more Bombers than Fighters in Reserve. You reroll ties.
The attacker picks one of their Flyers and one enemy Flyer that is in Reserve to take part in the Dogfight. Those two models are then placed on any available flat surface so that they are facing directly towards each other, 36" apart.

2. Engage, Manoeuvre, and Attack are all kinda interesting phases We've all seen the tables(Defender's choice v Attacker's choice), but we hadn't seen exactly how it works.
Each player hides a dice behind their hand so that it is hidden from their opponent and rotates it to have 1, 2, or 3 showing as the uppermost result. The dice get revealed at the same time and the numbers are then cross referenced against the appropriate table(Engagement Tactics, Manoeuvre, or Attack). Certain results on the tables will result in a roll off with a modifier from the new stats(Pursuit or Agility) being in effect. During the Engage sub-phase, the winner can choose to close or increase the range to their opponent by up to 12". If the winner's Pursuit value is at least 2 points above the loser's, they can instead double the range they can close/pull away.

Alternatively, the winner can opt to disengage and end the Dogfight immediately.

3. Manoeuvre. You pick a dice as before, reveal simultaneously as before, and then compare versus the Manoeuvre table. The winner can force their opponent to pivot their Flyer by up to 90 degrees left or right or by up to 180 degrees if the winner's Agility value is at least 2 points higher than the loser's. Alternatively, the winner can choose to Jink(This is important. This is the ONLY time during the Dogfight phase you can choose to Jink.). If a Flyer uses Jink during a Dogfight, then it only lasts until the end of the Dogfight(so you can Jink during the Dogfight, but you won't be affected by Jink's special rules when you come onto the board).

4. Attack. Attack is a bit of a different beast and has a bit more complexity that gets opened up via Manoeuvre. You perform the same as before(hide a dice behind your hand, choose 1, 2, or 3, and check versus the Attack Tactics table) . Both players then perform a Shooting Attack with your Flyers, modified by the Attack Tactic. Any damage inflicted by the player that attacks first is applied before the opposing Flyer can fire back.
Flyers in a Dogfight are never considered to be moving Flat Out, even if they did so in their previous Shooting phase, and they're only allowed to Jink if they won in Manoeuvre. These changes aside, they're treated the same as Zooming Flyers. Special rules and abilities that apply in the normal Shooting phase apply during the Dogfight as well.

Now for the most important part about Attack, which ties in to the Manoeuvre subphase.
Remember how in the Interception subphase you place the models facing each other? And how Manoeuvre allows you to force your enemy to pivot their Flyer?
Well, the Angle of Attack actually matters.

Head-on Pass: If both Flyers have each other in their front facing, they can only fire Snap Shots.

Tailing: All weapons used by a Flyer that has the enemy in its front facing while it is in the enemy Flyer's rear facing are fired with the attacker's full Ballistic Skill. The opposing Flyer can only fire Snap Shots.

Other Angles of Attacks: Anything other than Tailing or Head-on Pass? Attack Flyers and Bombers can only do Snap Shots while Fighters use their full Ballistic Skill.

There's also two notations to take into consideration, boxed off during this phase:
Jinking Flyers can only fire Snap Shots, no matter their Angle of Attack. Skyfire Weapons allow you to ignore the Angle of Attack rule and shoot using your full Ballistic Skill unless you're Jinking.

After you conclude those 4 phases, you then apply damage and see how things work out. All Flyers are considered to be Zooming Flyers, any damage applying to a Flyer "until the end of its next turn" will apply until the end of the controlling player's turn in the upcoming game turn, and if a Flyer suffers a "Crash and Burn!" result you roll a dice and refer to a table.

On a 1 or a 6, it gets transferred onto the battlefield more than 1" from any models. The "Crash and Burn!" result is then applied just as if it had been destroyed while flying over the battlefield. The only difference is that on a 1, it happens in your turf and on a 6 it happens on the enemy's turf. On a 2-5 it's destroyed in midair and nothing else happens, aside from the passengers and Flyer being removed as casualties.
The two Flyers are then returned to Reserve and the Dogfight phase is over. If only one player has Flyers in Reserve, then that player has Air Superiority(Air Superiority allows you to choose to add or subtract 1 from your Reserve Rolls while your opponent has to subtract 1 from all of their Reserve Rolls).

The "big important things" to note here:
Break Turns: A Zooming Flyer can attempt to make a second turn of up to 90 degrees at any point during its move, including just after making its initial 90 degree turn. To do so, you move the Flyer to the position where it will attempt the Break Turn and roll a dice. If it's equal to or less than the Flyer's Agility value, then it was successful and you make the Break Turn before carrying on with your move. On any other roll, it fails and can carry on in a straight line.

Zooming and Shooting: You can fire four of your weapons in the Shooting phase(which means also during Dogfights)

Fighter Skyfire Mode:
Zooming Flyers with the Fighter Combat Role can choose whether or not to enter Skyfire mode at the start of each Shooting phase. If they do, all weapons they fire that phase are treated as having the Skyfire special rule. Flyers with the Fighter Combat Role otherwise suffer a -1 penalty to the Ballistic Skill on their profile when targeting Ground Targets.

"Air Targets" are defined as Flyers, Skimmers, Jetbikes, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Flying Gargantuan Creatures. All other types of units are Ground Targets.

Any specific questions you might have, I'd be glad to answer (assuming it's not just "SCAN THE PAGES!").

Thanks very much for the review and kindly looking over

Anything remarkable or new in the fluff - is it the same fluff as previous book?

The brand new SM flyer, I assume its "always been there"? Is it used by all Chapters?

Any mention of any flyers not (yet) in the rules - Mechancium, Sororitas, Chaos in particular?

Any mention of the first two factions in any battles?

Any Deff Squadron pics or references?? Would have been so cool to get rules for Killboy and the other Ladz

 Mr Morden wrote:
Thanks very much for the review and kindly looking over

Anything remarkable or new in the fluff - is it the same fluff as previous book?

I don't have the previous book, so can't comment beyond "Aeronautica Imperialis" being the designation of Imperial Navy combat aircraft(read: Valkyries).

The brand new SM flyer, I assume its "always been there"? Is it used by all Chapters?

It's not really given a whole lot of detail beyond how it operates. Stormhawk Interceptors are launched from mag-cradles of orbiting warships directly into the battle. That's why it has no landing skids--like the Heldrake, it's meant to just 'latch' in and then scream down from above.

Any mention of any flyers not (yet) in the rules - Mechancium, Sororitas, Chaos in particular?

Not that I saw!

Any mention of the first two factions in any battles?

Closest is a mention of the Knights of House Raven during the fluff blurbs from the perspective of an Imperial Fists Techmarine leading a Stormhawk wing during the Damocles Gulf Crusade, and the Stormhawks fending off Razorsharks and Sun Sharks from attacking the Knights as they go after the same kind of Tau atmospheric processing plants that we saw in Mont'ka.

Any Deff Squadron pics or references?? Would have been so cool to get rules for Killboy and the other Ladz

Never read Deff Skwadron--but there's a few pages of art plates for the Orks. They get 4 pages; same as the Codex Marines.

There's some really cool Blood Axe flyers in there with camo markings.

Are there these new stats (Agility etc) for all the flyers included in the book?

And how do the new Air Squads I've seen rumours of work?

Cheers

I assume this is a ruleset mainly for those who want some interesting dog-fights?
Adding this to the standard 40k experience could be a bit rough.
I am a bit of a sucker for aircraft no matter how ugly marine craft get so I guess it will be a must have even if I shudder to think of playing it.

Overall the rules sound messy and unbalanced to me, your review mostly supports the view that I'm not going to like this supplement. I hope it doesn't get rolled in to the core 40k rules, but it probably will.

3 words: Is it fun?

 IHateNids wrote:
Are there these new stats (Agility etc) for all the flyers included in the book?

All of the currently existing Flyers(barring the Vendetta) are in this book with the updated statlines.

And how do the new Air Squads I've seen rumours of work?

Cheers

Okay, so.

The "Wings" rule that you're probably referring to is simply the fact that you can now purchase any Flyer in Squadrons. Flyers can operate on their own as single models or as a Flyer Wing of between 2 to 4 models. All of the models in a Flyer Wing must be chosen from the same datasheet or be part of the same Formation. Flyer Wings, when deployed, require you to nominate one of the Flyers as Wing Leader. Each Wing Leader gets to roll on a table and get a unique benefit.
Wings have to maintain 4" coherency, they never block LOS for other Flyers from their own Wings, and the number of Flyers in a Flyer Wing will affect what Attack Patterns you have access to.
You cannot have more or less Flyers than the numbers required for an Attack Pattern.
To use an example, you can't run Vigilance Attack Pattern (which requires 2 Flyers in a single Flyer Wing) if you have 4 Flyers in a Flyer Wing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
3 words: Is it fun?

I enjoyed it, but I can see how some people wouldn't like it. The play mechanic of the dice seems like overcomplicating X-Wing's dial mechanic to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
I assume this is a ruleset mainly for those who want some interesting dog-fights?
Adding this to the standard 40k experience could be a bit rough.
I am a bit of a sucker for aircraft no matter how ugly marine craft get so I guess it will be a must have even if I shudder to think of playing it.

If you want Dogfights, yeah it's good for Dogfights.

But it actually does a lot to make standard Flyers a bit more interesting to use with the "Attack Patterns".
To use an example, I would never field my trio of Valkyries at this point because I've got them built with Missile Pods and Lascannons on the cockpit--and being that they're BS3? ehhh.

But now I'm kinda interested in running my Valkyries using the Attack Patterns. The Vehemence attack pattern grants them Tank Hunters, Intolerance grants them Ignores Cover, and Unmerciful grants them the ability to double their Pursuit Value(1 on the Valkyrie) when they move Flat Out in addition to allowing them to make a shooting attack with up to 4 weapons when moving Flat Out, and they get a successive +1(for the second Valkyrie) and +2(for the third) bonus to their Ballistic Skill as they attack. All of those benefits are against Ground Targets specifically.

Glad it's a good book but it sounds waaaaaay too expesnive for what you get. Codices are bad enough (which is why I use pdf downloads) but $50 for updated flyer rules is way too steep for me.

And can the suppliment be used in regular 40k plus stand alone flyer-only games?

I.e. can you just put 3 dakkajets VS 3 crimson hunters on a table and pewpew away?

 Ratius wrote:
And can the suppliment be used in regular 40k plus stand alone flyer-only games?

I.e. can you just put 3 dakkajets VS 3 crimson hunters on a table and pewpew away?

You absolutely could, yeah. There's a rule for Detachments consisting solely of Flyers in there, and it would be easy enough to just say "We're going to resolve multiple Dogfights" instead of the limitation of one per game turn.

Be aware though that like I said regarding the "Interception" phase, the rules are meant to be for 1v1 Flyer match-ups. Everything is specific to one Flyer fighting another Flyer.

Cool, thanks.

So I read the "air superiority" rule on one of the leaks.

If we opt to not use the dogfight rules, is this rule still in play?
Does it effect all reserves or just for your flyers?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, can you confirm if only fighters have skyfire now?

Their specific rule doesn't seem to remove it from other flyers.. but I suppose if this book replaces the flyers rules in the BRB, and this book then does not give the other flyers skyfire, they would then not have it...... :?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also

You mentioned needing to stay in 4" coherency.

Does a wing move and break turn as a single unit or individually? Can they fly around solo, and not be in an attack pattern?

A single wing may still fire independently in the shooting phase regardless of my previous question(s)?

 Grizzyzz wrote:
So I read the "air superiority" rule on one of the leaks.

If we opt to not use the dogfight rules, is this rule still in play?
Does it effect all reserves or just for your flyers?

All Reserves.

Death From the Skies p. 58 wrote:
Air Superiority
If only one player has Flyers in Reserve at the end of the Dogfight phase(p.68), then they are said to have Air Superiority. A player with Air Superiority can choose to add or subtract 1 from their Reserve Rolls and their opponent must subtract 1 from all of their Reserve Rolls.

Also, can you confirm if only fighters have skyfire now?

Their specific rule doesn't seem to remove it from other flyers.. but I suppose if this book replaces the flyers rules in the BRB, and this book then does not give the other flyers skyfire, they would then not have it...... :?

That is the working train of thought I've got going for this, yes.

Now, remember that the Fighter Skyfire mode is that they get to choose whether or not to Skyfire and it applies to just that phase--so if in a Dogfight a Fighter opts to Skyfire, they can then perform a Shooting Attack when they come on board with just the -1 penalty to their Ballistic Skill against ground targets.

Attack Flyers and Bombers can essentially gain Skyfire by getting on a target's tail during a Dogfight(it allows you to fire at full Ballistic Skill), but otherwise they are Snap Shooting.

 Kanluwen wrote:
wrote stuff

Thanks very much for taking the time to look and reply

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also

You mentioned needing to stay in 4" coherency.

Does a wing move and break turn as a single unit or individually? Can they fly around solo, and not be in an attack pattern?

That's actually something I'm glad you asked, because I hadn't read that one too specifically.

So:

Deployment and Coherency
Only make one Reserve Roll for all of the Flyers in a Flyer Wing. They either all arrive, or none do. In addition, when they deploy, each Flyer in the Wing must be set up within 4" of at least one other model from the Flyer Wing, following the rules for Vehicle Squadron coherency described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. Unlike other units, however, following their deployment, each Flyer in a Flyer Wing operates as an individual unit. Flyers never block the line of sight for other Flyers from their own Flyer Wing(they are in constant communication, and roll or bank to open firing lanes for their comrades).

A single wing may still fire independently in the shooting phase regardless of my previous question(s)?

They can fly around solo if in a Wing, but if they're part of the "Unmerciful" Attack Pattern, they have to all fire at the same target(whether Ground or Air) unless they're a Bomber(the Bombers are just dropping ordnance).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
wrote stuff

Thanks very much for taking the time to look and reply

You're quite welcome.

This seems cool, but not enough of a reason for me to buy it. I don't run enough fliers (only 1 or two) and most of my friends run about the same. This would be cool as a campaign game (I.E. everyone bringing lots of fliers), but outside of that, I doubt I'd include it in a normal game.

 jreilly89 wrote:
This seems cool, but not enough of a reason for me to buy it. I don't run enough fliers (only 1 or two) and most of my friends run about the same. This would be cool as a campaign game (I.E. everyone bringing lots of fliers), but outside of that, I doubt I'd include it in a normal game.

Do you want me to do a bit of an "in-depth" on the campaign section? I figured people would be most interested in the core of the rules before the rest of it.

Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

 Ratius wrote:
And can the suppliment be used in regular 40k plus stand alone flyer-only games?

I.e. can you just put 3 dakkajets VS 3 crimson hunters on a table and pewpew away?

If you could get your hands on the Aeronautica Imperialis rules and scale it up to 40k, I think that'd be pretty cool. You'll probably have to compromise a bit on ranges to get it down to an appropriate scale for a regular tabletop, if you just scale it up uniformly you'll need to play on a table the size of basketball court.

Aeronautica Imperialis has a proper system for dealing with manoeuvres, altitude, speed, etc, yet in spite of that it's actually an extremely simple system (the entire AI rules system fits on a few pages) that has a lot of tactical depth.

 Ignatius wrote:
Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

The 40k page on Facebook said just to use the new stats for the Valkyrie when running vendettas, seems to be a silly oversight though.

 Ignatius wrote:
Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

There's no entry for the Vendetta, but it's just a Valkyrie with Lascannons...so the P&A values would be the same(1 and 3 respectively), as would the role(Attack Flyer).

The Guard(these traits apply to both Guard and Tempestus BTW) fares pretty well from the fact that their Wing Leader rules tend to be all about Attack Patterns.
1-2 result is that they get to move an extra 3" when they're in an Attack Pattern at the start of Movement, and they automatically pass Break Turn tests.
3-4 is that the Wing gets to reroll To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls of 1 if they are in an Attack Pattern.
5-6 is that they can reroll failed saves when they Jink if they are in an Attack Pattern when the saving throw is made.

The 5-6 result is huge if you run 4 in a Fortitude pattern, where you get a 4+ Invulnerable and It Will Not Die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

The 40k page on Facebook said just to use the new stats for the Valkyrie when running vendettas, seems to be a silly oversight though.

Not really. Valkyries and Vendettas are the same, just with different armaments and carry capacity.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
This seems cool, but not enough of a reason for me to buy it. I don't run enough fliers (only 1 or two) and most of my friends run about the same. This would be cool as a campaign game (I.E. everyone bringing lots of fliers), but outside of that, I doubt I'd include it in a normal game.

Do you want me to do a bit of an "in-depth" on the campaign section? I figured people would be most interested in the core of the rules before the rest of it.

Definitely. I think that's the only way I'd play it, is if everyone had only fliers.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

There's no entry for the Vendetta, but it's just a Valkyrie with Lascannons...so the P&A values would be the same(1 and 3 respectively), as would the role(Attack Flyer).

The Guard(these traits apply to both Guard and Tempestus BTW) fares pretty well from the fact that their Wing Leader rules tend to be all about Attack Patterns.
1-2 result is that they get to move an extra 3" when they're in an Attack Pattern at the start of Movement, and they automatically pass Break Turn tests.
3-4 is that the Wing gets to reroll To Wound and Armour Penetration rolls of 1 if they are in an Attack Pattern.
5-6 is that they can reroll failed saves when they Jink if they are in an Attack Pattern when the saving throw is made.

The 5-6 result is huge if you run 4 in a Fortitude pattern, where you get a 4+ Invulnerable and It Will Not Die.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Wow thank you very much for putting this together.

Definitely sounds like an interesting addition- I really like the reserve manipulation idea and the fact that fighters and bombers now have a more defined role on the battlefield.

How does the Guard fare? There is no entry or rules for Vendettas right? Seems pretty unnecessarily debilitating.

The 40k page on Facebook said just to use the new stats for the Valkyrie when running vendettas, seems to be a silly oversight though.

Not really. Valkyries and Vendettas are the same, just with different armaments and carry capacity.

Yeah, but there's bound to be a tonne of TFGs who won't let guard players use their Vendettas now.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
This seems cool, but not enough of a reason for me to buy it. I don't run enough fliers (only 1 or two) and most of my friends run about the same. This would be cool as a campaign game (I.E. everyone bringing lots of fliers), but outside of that, I doubt I'd include it in a normal game.

Do you want me to do a bit of an "in-depth" on the campaign section? I figured people would be most interested in the core of the rules before the rest of it.

Definitely. I think that's the only way I'd play it, is if everyone had only fliers.

So, the campaign section is broken up into 6 missions.

Mission 1: "Fighter Sweep". Points values are not used in this mission, instead everyone plays as many Flyers as they have in their collection and only Flyers can be used. The player with the most is the Invader, the other player is the Warden. If it's the same number of Flyers, then you roll off.

You don't deploy scenery since it takes place at high altitude, but there are special rules for Clouds where you can mark out areas of the battlefield as being cloud cover. You get Shrouded if the LOS of an attack passes through 3-12" of cloud, while LOS is completely blocked if it passes through more than 12" of cloud. If a unit is completely destroyed, it gets placed back into Ongoing Reserve where it can come back at the start of your next turn. Flyers that join the battle after it starts get an additional 12" added to its min/max move in Movement and it has Preferred Enemy in its first Shooting Phase.
You take turns deploying, 1 unit to 1 unit starting with the Invader. If the Warden finishes the Invader deploys and you cannot place anything in Reserve.
Warden has first turn unless the Invader seizes.

Mission 2: "Tactical Strike"
Invader must take at least one Flyer Wing, Warden must include any five fortifications to represent strategic targets, though they do not cost any points. If the Warden does not have enough fortifications, you deploy markers to be "Underground Bunkers". Underground Bunkers have AV 13 and 4 HPs, they can't be embarked upon and they have no weapons.

Warden deploys first and the objectives have to be in their deployment zone.
Invader deploys second, placing their army barring Reserves in their deployment zone.

Invader goes first unless Warden can seize. There's a table for Victory Conditions based upon how many Strategic Targets get smoked. Any one use weapons on the Invader's flyers that are one use only get Bunker Buster if the target is a fortification, allowing you to roll an extra D6 when rolling to penetrate the buildings. Add 3 to the roll on Building Damage. Warden can nominate a fortification as Comms Nexus and until it's Detonated or Total Collapsed, the Warden can choose to autopass/fail Reserve rolls and the Invader has to subtract 1 from their Reserve Rolls. Skyshields placed can be destroyed during the mission; they're AV13 and 5 HPs.

Mission 3: "Lightning Assault"
Invader has to take at least one Flyer Wing and 3 non-Flyer units. Warden deploys first, all of the Invader's army barring their Flyers start off the board on turn one. Invader goes first unless Warden can seize. Invader's units can Snap Shot after making Run moves, Flat Outs, or Turbo-boosting. All of the Invader's Flyers have Strafing Run and all of their weapons gain Pinning. Warden's units autopass Morale within their deployment zone(24" versus 48" for Invader's DZ). Game length goes to 8, where you roll a D6 and on a 3+ the game continues. Turn 9 it becomes a 4+, battle ends at the close of game turn 10.

Mission 4: "Munitions Drop"
This is an interesting one. The Invader deploys at the center of the board with a 12" DZ, Warden deploys at the edges and has to be 18" from the Invader's DZ. No objective markers are deployed; they get air dropped in by the Invader's 5 free Flyers. The Invader has a rule called "Low on Ammunition" where unless the unit firing is a Flyer, they run out of ammo on a dice roll of 1 for each unit that fires until they resupply at an Objective Marker.. On a 2 or more, they're good. Warden goes first unless Invader seizes and each OM is worth 3 VPs. Warden gets recycling Elites/Troops--BUT they lose any benefit from Formations/Detachments they were first part of.

Mission 5: "Aces High"
This is purely Flyers. One player is the Interceptor and the opponent is the Ace. Ace controls a single Flyer, Interceptor gets a Wing. No points values, all it requires is 36" of flat surface. Mission goes until the Ace or Flyer Wing have been completely destroyed. You don't roll for Interception, the Ace is always the Attacker.

Mission 6: "Crashing Thunder"
Normal armies; Invader must include at least one Flyer Wing. Warden has fortifications(they're not free this time). Warden gets to choose to autoidentify any Objective Marker as a Skyfire Nexus and Warden's units are Fearless within their DZ. Invader gets recycling Flyers but they lose any benefits from Detachment/Formation and Wing Leader/Ace abilities.

Not gonna lie, this just seems over the top with the already bloated rule system. It's cool in theory, but geez.

These rules are optional, yes?

 krodarklorr wrote:
Not gonna lie, this just seems over the top with the already bloated rule system. It's cool in theory, but geez.

These rules are optional, yes?

I'd say it's a bit hazy as to whether it's optional or not. I'm leaning towards "Optional...for now", because the Stormhawk kit does not include any rules without Pursuit/Agility values.

The only time it really addresses it in the book is when it says that the rules in Death From the Skies replace those for Flyers in the main rulebook.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Not gonna lie, this just seems over the top with the already bloated rule system. It's cool in theory, but geez.

These rules are optional, yes?

I'd say it's a bit hazy as to whether it's optional or not. I'm leaning towards "Optional...for now", because the Stormhawk kit does not include any rules without Pursuit/Agility values.

The only time it really addresses it in the book is when it says that the rules in Death From the Skies replace those for Flyers in the main rulebook.

Oh boy. This update + FAQ release makes me want AOS to happen even more now. Ugh.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Not gonna lie, this just seems over the top with the already bloated rule system. It's cool in theory, but geez.

Pretty much. GW has managed, once again, to make rules that simultaneously have the strategic depth of a puddle (LOL GUYS PLAY ROCK/PAPER/SCISSORS TO SEE WHO WINS) and are a bloated mess longer than the rules for some entire games. Pay $9999999 for a book that makes the game worse? No thanks.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mission 1: "Fighter Sweep". Points values are not used in this mission, instead everyone plays as many Flyers as they have in their collection and only Flyers can be used.

I was wondering when 40k was going to get AoS-style blatant "both players spend money on GW models, the player who spends the most money wins" missions. Bonus points for having it be a stupid "all flyers in your collection" rule where RAW my collection turns the game into an unplayable mess.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Not gonna lie, this just seems over the top with the already bloated rule system. It's cool in theory, but geez.

These rules are optional, yes?

I'd say it's a bit hazy as to whether it's optional or not. I'm leaning towards "Optional...for now", because the Stormhawk kit does not include any rules without Pursuit/Agility values.

The only time it really addresses it in the book is when it says that the rules in Death From the Skies replace those for Flyers in the main rulebook.

From what I can tell in the book its not optional. Since it states that it replaces the rules in the BRB its going to be like escalation or stronghold assault where the rules are the official ones, but your average players may dispense with them and play without, especially considering that most people wont run flyers anyways.