Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've found a friend of mine selling his second BaC with a nice discount so I decided to match the price and made the box mine.
I'm quite decided to go with Alpha legion (but try to persuade me I'm all ears) and feeling quite confused:
what should I plan adding to the BaC force for the next points? How should I play Alpha Legion?
Is it a beginner friendly starter legion?

Alpha Legion are super versatile, their mutable tactics make the army compositions very flexible.

With B@C you have a couple of options - go the Pride of the Legion rite of war route and use Terminators and Veterans as troops.
Go the Head Hunter Rite of War - this will require buying the kits to make your marines headhunters, they become troops - wouldn't advise this for a beginner.
You go no ROW to begin with, build 30 tactical marines to fulfill your tactical blobs then expand with some fun things.

Use the chaplin and convert it into an apothecary.

Alpha Legion are very playable for a beginner in 30k,though you should prepare yourself to lose at first because it takes some getting used to. And after just a few short games (and a few long rules reading sessions ) you'll know all the tricks you can pull on your opponent, because Alpha Legion's strength lies in its pure, unrelenting dickery.

Here's how I'd do it if I were going into Alpha Legion again from a new BaC:
Keep your thirty marines as regular Tacticals, because you need three compulsory troops for the Rite of War: Coils of The Hydra (which if you're playing Alpha legion you'll definitely want to build up to).
Assemble your Terminators with Power Fists and Combi-Bolters, go find a bits site you like or if you can find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators. If you're going to steal a unit from another legion, it may as well be some awesome terminators.
Convert the Chaplain to a Vigilator (just give him a regular Power Weapon instead of a Crozius and you're there). You want a Vigilator because sabotage is what you do.
The Dreadnought you can build how you wish, they're just fun.
The Praetor can also stay how he is, he'll fit in well with your (hopefull Tyrant Siege variety) Terminators.

Now how to expand is up to you. I personally focus on using anything I can to screw with my opponent as opposed to facing them in a head-on fight. My personal reccomendations for this type of play are:
Sicarian Venator, it's a great anti-tank unit and it forces snap-shots on your opponent, the more de-buffs the better am I right?
Land Raider Proteus with Explorator Array, because it helps deny reserves.
Alpharius, because you can screw around with reserves some more.
Destroyer Squads, because they screw with to-wound rolls.
Head-Hunter Squads, because they're fun and very fluffy (and devastating under the right circumstances).
Rhinos, because you need to carry them all around somehow.

Of course you'll want more than just those units but hey, I'm not crazy enough to give you no options. I apologise if that sounded a bit direct, but I hope it helped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#XX_Legion:_Alpha_Legion Is an excellent tactical summary of Alpha Legion.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

commander dante wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

Yes, I have since had those pointed out to me. And I certainly agree they are far more useful.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Alpha Legion are very playable for a beginner in 30k,though you should prepare yourself to lose at first because it takes some getting used to. And after just a few short games (and a few long rules reading sessions ) you'll know all the tricks you can pull on your opponent, because Alpha Legion's strength lies in its pure, unrelenting dickery.


...Convert the Chaplain to a Vigilator (just give him a regular Power Weapon instead of a Crozius and you're there). You want a Vigilator because sabotage is what you do....

why not the saboteur, it has a guarantee penetrating hit that could potentially blow up anything short of a super-heavy.

And then take Dynat so your Saboteur's attack is at AP 1 when he outflanks on your opponent's table edge. +2 on the damage chart is brilliant, Vigilator is a bad idea for Alpha Legion when you can just take a Saboteur which has a similar ability but way better.

commander dante wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

Great Idea if you hate spending a reasonable amount of points on things While they are slightly better against vehicles and with a better BS, their point cost is outrageous by comparison as well.

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

Great Idea if you hate spending a reasonable amount of points on things While they are slightly better against vehicles and with a better BS, their point cost is outrageous by comparison as well.

You're playing Heresy
Go Big or Go Home

commander dante wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

Great Idea if you hate spending a reasonable amount of points on things While they are slightly better against vehicles and with a better BS, their point cost is outrageous by comparison as well.

You're playing Heresy
Go Big or Go Home

you can go bigger if you take siege tyrants as opposed to their blue rip-offs Besides, DG have more enjoyable terminators anyways

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Find a friendly space marine player and barter for some Cyclone Missile Launchers, build them as Iron Warrior Tyrant Siege Terminators.

Or Ultramarines Fulmantarus terminators
BS5 and tank hunters if there are 5 in a unit compared to BS4 and Wrecker

Great Idea if you hate spending a reasonable amount of points on things While they are slightly better against vehicles and with a better BS, their point cost is outrageous by comparison as well.

You're playing Heresy
Go Big or Go Home

you can go bigger if you take siege tyrants as opposed to their blue rip-offs Besides, DG have more enjoyable terminators anyways

If you like rolling 20 blast templates then sure....
I personally like the SoH Justerain the best
Multi-Meltas on a 2W Infiltrating platform with S&P and Power Weapon is pretty scary...

commander dante wrote:

If you like rolling 20 blast templates then sure....
I personally like the SoH Justerain the best
Multi-Meltas on a 2W Infiltrating platform with S&P and Power Weapon is pretty scary...

Counter-Attack Grave Wardens. Boom

Or Infiltrating Deathshroud: We did 2-wound terminators first (and best )

I'm sorry for re-exhuming an old thread I started and didn't continue but I finally have some spare time, I got my first BaC and planning on buying another one since I got a nice deal.

Would I benefit of a second one? What's a list I should look at?

In my head I'd use the troops greatly, since the squads are 10+ having 60s bodies wouldn't be bad, also they would leave options for buying only the shields or weapons for breachers or similia.
But what about the terminators? Would I use 10 iron warriors siege terminators? The HQ I'd replace as 40k Dark Angels sergeants or similia, probably the dreadnought too...

I'm quite confused yet about the usage of the special weapons, how can I use them?

Hmm, my thoughts on the Alpha Legion which I'm building up myself:

- Consider running a Delegatus, specifically Autillon Skorr - he's cheaper than a Praetor and allows you to pick Rites and Autillon allows you to pick your Warlord Traits, combine that with Veterans along with Mutable tactics and you can potentially have Outflanking, Sniping, Tank Hunting Veterans.

- I'd say to only consider coils when you've got the hang of the Legion and use it to plug gaps and/or get those shiny units you want.

- Veterans and Tactical Support Squads are you main sources of Special Weapons. 10 man Plasma Squads are nasty but will attract fire like nothing else and meltaguns can be useful, but Armoured Ceramite on the tougher vehicles blunt Meltaguns somewhat.

- I find big 20 man Tactical's to be a bit crap. Beyond grabbing objectives, they tend to die in droves with Phosphex, Typhon's, Volkite's and myriad other high firepower weapons commonly deployed. A full 20 man with Apothecary and extras takes up a chunk of your points. I tend to keep them cheap, bung 'em in rhinos with assorted upgrades and Outflank them.

- Orbital Assault Alpha's are quite effective, again for the mixture of Veteran specialists, Dynat and Dreadnoughts in pods, especially now that you can pod in a whole talon in one go. Even Castraferrum (boxnought) dreadnoughts are handy here, dropping them in armed with Flamestorms and Graviton Guns is surprisingly effective.

So support squad to hold the different weapons?

 suxdavide wrote:
So support squad to hold the different weapons?

Yes, it's called a Tactical Support Squad from 5-10 Marines all equipped identically. It sounds like you don't have it, and if you don't I recommend that you get the Red Book ASAP:

I would say...
30 marines (from original box set) into 3 10 man tactical squads
10 Termies (From Both Boxes) to be converted into 'Stolen' Termies (your choice)
30 Additional Marines (from Second Box) into 2 10 man Veterans and 1 10 man heavy support squad
Contemptors into whatever (dual lascannon on both seems good)

Additional Purchases (my personal choice)
Model for Alpharius
Dynat
Model For Exodus (Seriously, he is ALWAYS worth it)
6 Tarantula Sentry Guns (3 with Hyperios MLs, 3 with whatever weapon you choose)
Leviathan Siege Dreadnought in a Drop Pod (Claw and Drill)

That should be around 3000 points (the usual points for heresy)

from 2 box sets, something like this would work great:

HQs
1 Praetor
1-2 consoles (however you wanted to make them, from either model)

Troops
2 20-man tactical squads
1 10-man tactical squad (or 10-man vet. squad)
1 5-man support squad

Elites:
Apothecaries (from one of the chaplains maybe?)
2 Contemptors w/ Kheres+fist
1 10-man terminator squad w/ fists & combi-bolters

Heavy Suport or Fast attack
5-man heavy support squad (OR a 5-man seeker/head hunter squad)

 zedmeister wrote:

 suxdavide wrote:
So support squad to hold the different weapons?

Yes, it's called a Tactical Support Squad from 5-10 Marines all equipped identically. It sounds like you don't have it, and if you don't I recommend that you get the Red Book ASAP:

I have The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Legions is it the same?

@Brennonjw and commander dante. Thank you guys that's what I was looking at, a sample list to start from and tweak a little to get the solution I like the most
I actually prefer Brenonjw's list as of a the big guys (I know it's probably not the most efficient way but come on, who didn't start HH for 20 power armours? )

Does Alpharius have a model?

 suxdavide wrote:
Does Alpharius have a model?

Ha ha ha no. Not yet at least. But then he doesn't exist so...

Seriously though, maybe take a look at this one: http://www.kabuki-studio.com/knights-of-legend/99-hydra-knight.html

 snykyninja wrote:

 suxdavide wrote:
Does Alpharius have a model?

Ha ha ha no. Not yet at least. But then he doesn't exist so...

Seriously though, maybe take a look at this one: http://www.kabuki-studio.com/knights-of-legend/99-hydra-knight.html

WoW that's super cool :O
Is that resin or?

Multi-parts resin kit, needs assembly and painting

scenic resin base included

Item is sold in a padded blister

AL the coolest army I never built. Seriously the toughest army to paint "right."

All the advice here seem good to me although I would look into a headhunter squad and a camo'd up recon squad for Exodus as well. AL special termies are sub par with everyone else's unless they were buffed in the newest book.

Pick a focus would be my main advice. What do you want your army to do, rain down in drop pods, sneak up with infiltrate, be a mechanized fist? Then build from that.

As to the painting thing, I have been painting models for 25+ years, painted a complete 5k Iron warriors army, 4 different Night Lords armies 3 for 40k and one 5k for 30k, Blood Angles, camo'd Howling Griffons, a beautiful customized and battle damaged Carcharodon army, too many camo'd IG armies to bother remembering, large Bolt Action US and German armies(with camo) and I still think AL despite many many test models is by far the most frustrating to paint to the cool metallic scheme of FW in a timely manner. Maybe I am too much a perfectionist, but I have failed every time I try. Sad since I have a whole box of FW AL stuff just sitting there laughing at me.

If you're looking to run Exodus, maybe take a look at this?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/690675.page

Col. Dash wrote:
AL the coolest army I never built. Seriously the toughest army to paint "right."

All the advice here seem good to me although I would look into a headhunter squad and a camo'd up recon squad for Exodus as well. AL special termies are sub par with everyone else's unless they were buffed in the newest book.

Pick a focus would be my main advice. What do you want your army to do, rain down in drop pods, sneak up with infiltrate, be a mechanized fist? Then build from that.

As to the painting thing, I have been painting models for 25+ years, painted a complete 5k Iron warriors army, 4 different Night Lords armies 3 for 40k and one 5k for 30k, Blood Angles, camo'd Howling Griffons, a beautiful customized and battle damaged Carcharodon army, too many camo'd IG armies to bother remembering, large Bolt Action US and German armies(with camo) and I still think AL despite many many test models is by far the most frustrating to paint to the cool metallic scheme of FW in a timely manner. Maybe I am too much a perfectionist, but I have failed every time I try. Sad since I have a whole box of FW AL stuff just sitting there laughing at me.

I've heard a really cheap, fast, and easy way to paint AL is just prime white, layer Runefang Silver, then several very thin layers of blue and green glazes. I guess that's not really a timely manner if you have to wait for 5 layers of glaze to dry, but it doesn't sound that difficult.

I painted my AL as Emperors Children...
Then just did a Shoulder Pad in Alpha Legion Colours...

I tried that method, maybe its the humidity here in FL, but it worked for a guy but the next guy was a different shade. I haven't completely given up on the project, but I need more BaC models before I can continue and I have much higher priorities.

 suxdavide wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 suxdavide wrote:
So support squad to hold the different weapons?

Yes, it's called a Tactical Support Squad from 5-10 Marines all equipped identically. It sounds like you don't have it, and if you don't I recommend that you get the Red Book ASAP:

I have The Horus Heresy Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Legions is it the same?

That book is the Full Army List for a Space Marine Army in 30k, the AoD Legions Book is just the special rules for the Legions themselves.

 zedmeister wrote:
Hmm, my thoughts on the Alpha Legion which I'm building up myself:

- Consider running a Delegatus, specifically Autillon Skorr - he's cheaper than a Praetor and allows you to pick Rites and Autillon allows you to pick your Warlord Traits, combine that with Veterans along with Mutable tactics and you can potentially have Outflanking, Sniping, Tank Hunting Veterans. Add in Dynat and Leviathans in pods to have disgustingly effective Outlankers.

Can you take Skorr and Dynat together? I thought they both had a 'must be warlord unless Alpharius' caveat of some kind?