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"I know not whether Cypher is the greatest threat, or the greatest hope for the Imperium. I only pray we can stop him before we find out."
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cypher

Are his 2 pistols special type guns or something

what makes a regular astarte so dangerous?

Pistols are master crafted heresey relics.

There not like the stuff they use now.
And he is a unknown in a universe that craves to know, to qauntify and the status quo.

He stands to potentially shatter it for good or ill

Because he is so unknown like above said, he is nowhere and can end up anywhere bring in destruction in his wake.

He has lead the dark angles in traps, yet at the same time, he is the one who brings them great victories, such as the founding of some of their most fruitful recruiting worlds are because of him.

He seems to be able to always slip away. On top of that, he is said to have the sword of the lion with him, arguabley the most valuable item to the dark Angels.

But the most fearful thing of all, is no one know if he is doing it for the good of the IoM or for the first worst of it. He operates much like the LotD in many regards

Imo, this is my head canon. Is that cypher is actually the lion is disguise. The emperor had the ability to change forms, I think maybe the lion had this trait but hid it for just such an occasion, it would not be unlike him as he was always the master strategist. Betting he is working behind the scene leading the dark Angels in secret, ultimately bringing them to terra to confess their secret, and only then will he show his true self. That's my head canon at least.

Also on a table perspective , probably his BS 10 does not get hot weapons lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, cypher is not actually a name, it's a title. The cypher was the keeper of the secrets and worked in the shadows of the dark Angels when they were a legion. He enforced their doctrine and read the secret scrolls and such. So naturally the cypher is far above most dark angel marines

The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

^ as well

I know it's not actually the lion, but it's my fav little bit of head canon I want to believe is real lol.

He is also responsible for the dark Angels finding the lions helm as well.

 jhe90 wrote:
Pistols are master crafted heresey relics.

There not like the stuff they use now.
And he is a unknown in a universe that craves to know, to qauntify and the status quo.

He stands to potentially shatter it for good or ill

This.


And I believe everybody (in the know, anyway) fear him because he knows too much, and he seems to have his own agenda (whatever it maybe).

He definitely knows things about the Battle of Caliban that the Dark Angels would really prefer be kept quiet.

People fear that which is unknown. Doubtful that tendency has died in the 40k...

So we have unknown guy that seems to have ability to escape literally anything doing god knows what without any sensible pattern that can be seen. Sometimes helping, sometimes hurting.

No wonder he's feared. Nobody has any clue what he's up to and it seems impossible to stop him! Even seemingly killing him doesn't seem to be sufficient to stop him...

edit: And he's one of my favourite characters in the 40k Potential for story arcs with him are sooooo many! Won't be running out of scenario ideas with him in a hurry!

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

Seems there might be current Cypher in HH time(it was title rather than name of individual marine it seems. Not sure do I like that idea or not but at worst irrelevant point anyway so no biggie) that got killed in some BL book. But this doesn't mean Cypher in 40k era would be dead. We just don't know WHO he is. But not the Cypher that was introduced in first DA book in HH series.

Don't know more about that since I stopped buying that endless stream of books. Too many books of same series!

But if he did get killed it just adds more mystery to the Cypher. WHO is he? Not the "current" holder of title in HH timeline so who took the mantle afterwards?

There are a lot of hints cypher might not be the same individual over the ages he is supposed to be more of a the last airbender avatar thingy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What makes him dangerous?
Cypher is the real hero of this story set in a dark crumbing evil empire. He is the one who can change things and has plot armour to save him.. Actors in the empire don't like things to be changed.

I always think he is.. Somewhat broken. Yet saved by warp times and dates.

Kind of is there when fate and own ends require it, and maybe there is one, maybe dead, maybe alive, kind of a mystery as no one can seem to understand even which timeline or faction he fights for.

Speaking purely from a game mechanical point of view, he is incredibly fast (I8) and uses a plasma pistol that doesn't get hot in CC. Shrouded is nice too.

Fluff point of view, he has the Lion's sword and his allegiance is unknown. As mentioned countless times, while working for Chaos ostensibly, his actions seem to strengthen the Imperium in the long run. Furthermore, if you plot Cypher's location by time, he's closing in on Terra. He escaped the Rock, so this lapse in security has the Dark Angels somewhat worried. It'd be difficult keeping the assassination of the Emperor and the collapse of the Astronomican secret.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

The Cypher is just a title, like Chapter Master. Read up on the Dark Angels stuff in 30k, then read Pandorax, then read the other 40k Dark Angel fluff.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Speaking purely from a game mechanical point of view, he is incredibly fast (I8) and uses a plasma pistol that doesn't get hot in CC. Shrouded is nice too.

Fluff point of view, he has the Lion's sword and his allegiance is unknown. As mentioned countless times, while working for Chaos ostensibly, his actions seem to strengthen the Imperium in the long run. Furthermore, if you plot Cypher's location by time, he's closing in on Terra. He escaped the Rock, so this lapse in security has the Dark Angels somewhat worried. It'd be difficult keeping the assassination of the Emperor and the collapse of the Astronomican secret.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

The Cypher is just a title, like Chapter Master. Read up on the Dark Angels stuff in 30k, then read Pandorax, then read the other 40k Dark Angel fluff.

Or if we are to make the assumption that the big E is a perpetual, then cypher would be saving the imperium by killing him and bringing him back.

I always liked the head cannon that he's Omegon. The loyalist of the Alpha Legion primarchs. Not sure where I heard that but it just felt "right".
Is he on the way to Terra to beg forgiveness or kill the Emp?
Would either be good? Bad?

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

Ok prepare yourself, all of the dark angels novels, all of them, are connected, the tale of two heads talking, it's a lie, it's an allegorical tale for the fall of Caliban, astelan is one of the original SOUL BOUND 150 space Marines, which is why ezekiel can't look into his mind in 40k, Cypher is indeed just a title in 30k, but the 40k Cypher is likely a different person who slips into 30k cyphers place after he is killed (conjecture), the events of the ouroborus, techalka and the other bit (forget it's name) in 40k rip open a portal to Caliban in 30k, which destroys Caliban, techalka is the reason the rock can move around, I can go on, but suffice to say, go read ALL the dark angels books, as they are basically 1 massive book and a series in there own right, hats off to gav Thorpe and Aaron dempski Bowden, as between them they have weaved quite a Web and likely the best story in 40k, that almost no one seems to realise it a thing.

 Formosa wrote:

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The cypher of 30k is dead, who becomes cypher after that we don't know yet, just another mystery, its not the lion as we know he is sleeping in the rock, and cypher has had a lot of interaction with dark angel chapter masters over the centuries, aiding them, and being released by them after, the last time we saw cypher in 40k he went through the portal that destroyed Caliban (of 30k), literally traveling through time back to the destruction of Caliban, 30k cypher was dead by this point, so there wont be 2 cyphers running around.

Ref: the dark angels series of novels from gav Thorpe and the HH series, most recently, angels of Caliban.

Wait what? Cypher is dead? I'm confused. Why would GW kill one of the most interesting characters in the 30k-40k lore, and one with the potential to make everything make sense. You're implying that Cypher is not one man, but many whom have traded places? Why would they even do that? If he is entering/exiting the warp, age doesn't matter so I don't see any motive why they would feel compelled to kill the original Cypher unless they wanted to make the setting even less interesting.

Ok prepare yourself, all of the dark angels novels, all of them, are connected, the tale of two heads talking, it's a lie, it's an allegorical tale for the fall of Caliban, astelan is one of the original SOUL BOUND 150 space Marines, which is why ezekiel can't look into his mind in 40k, Cypher is indeed just a title in 30k, but the 40k Cypher is likely a different person who slips into 30k cyphers place after he is killed (conjecture), the events of the ouroborus, techalka and the other bit (forget it's name) in 40k rip open a portal to Caliban in 30k, which destroys Caliban, techalka is the reason the rock can move around, I can go on, but suffice to say, go read ALL the dark angels books, as they are basically 1 massive book and a series in there own right, hats off to gav Thorpe and Aaron dempski Bowden, as between them they have weaved quite a Web and likely the best story in 40k, that almost no one seems to realise it a thing.

Is there a comprehensive list of all the dark Angel focused books/stories one could read and in order? I want to read them but since there is so bloody much, I got no idea where to start

Start with angels of darkness, then all the follow ups, deathwing. Ravenwing and the unforgiven, then the hh ones, as they are not finished yet.

 Formosa wrote:
Start with angels of darkness, then all the follow ups, deathwing. Ravenwing and the unforgiven, then the hh ones, as they are not finished yet.

So in order

Angels of darkness
Deathwing
Ravenwing
the unforgiven

When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

Holy Gak i just had a shower thought.....

What if the warhammer 40k universe is actually stuck in a time loop, starting with the HH, and ending when cypher unplugs the Big E, at which point the universe gets wrecked, and by the time the Big E comes back, everything is messed up so he says screw it, reverse time, or cypher hops back in time like he did before to try and do it the right way.

Each time we see cypher its actually a different one every time, because he is trying a different tactic to keep the IoM together once he pulls the plug on the big E


....holy crap this is to deep for me.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

Holy Gak i just had a shower thought.....

What if the warhammer 40k universe is actually stuck in a time loop, starting with the HH, and ending when cypher unplugs the Big E, at which point the universe gets wrecked, and by the time the Big E comes back, everything is messed up so he says screw it, reverse time, or cypher hops back in time like he did before to try and do it the right way.

Each time we see cypher its actually a different one every time, because he is trying a different tactic to keep the IoM together once he pulls the plug on the big E


....holy crap this is to deep for me.

Note to self; No drugs when on dakka


Its an interesting thought but extremely flawed.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

Holy Gak i just had a shower thought.....

What if the warhammer 40k universe is actually stuck in a time loop, starting with the HH, and ending when cypher unplugs the Big E, at which point the universe gets wrecked, and by the time the Big E comes back, everything is messed up so he says screw it, reverse time, or cypher hops back in time like he did before to try and do it the right way.

Each time we see cypher its actually a different one every time, because he is trying a different tactic to keep the IoM together once he pulls the plug on the big E


....holy crap this is to deep for me.

Note to self; No drugs when on dakka


Its an interesting thought but extremely flawed.

Thing is, until we get the sequal to unforgiven, this is prettyuch what's actually happening

Cypher is, in my opinion, simply a representation of the duality and clandestine quality of the Dark Angels Chapter itself - this also applies to the Lion, though to what degree El' Johnson can be deemed "opportunistic" is uncertain.

Regardless, Cypher's story during the End Times for 40K will be one of the most interesting and difficult to guess at.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Cypher is, in my opinion, simply a representation of the duality and clandestine quality of the Dark Angels Chapter itself - this also applies to the Lion, though to what degree El' Johnson can be deemed "opportunistic" is uncertain.

Regardless, Cypher's story during the End Times for 40K will be one of the most interesting and difficult to guess at.

Oooooo bloody fine point!

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Cypher is, in my opinion, simply a representation of the duality and clandestine quality of the Dark Angels Chapter itself - this also applies to the Lion, though to what degree El' Johnson can be deemed "opportunistic" is uncertain.

Regardless, Cypher's story during the End Times for 40K will be one of the most interesting and difficult to guess at.

Is he the Dark Angel's Sanguinor?

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

Problem with that is that wouldn't big E KNOW he's eternal and ergo would come back? If so why did he WANT himself be plugged in the golden throne...Either way plugging him out goes against orders of the Big E so either Big E is selfish and pulling the plug is bad for him or he's not selfish and it's bad for the humans.

tneva82 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

Problem with that is that wouldn't big E KNOW he's eternal and ergo would come back? If so why did he WANT himself be plugged in the golden throne...Either way plugging him out goes against orders of the Big E so either Big E is selfish and pulling the plug is bad for him or he's not selfish and it's bad for the humans.

As I pointed out, the Golden Throne is keeping the shattered webway intact. Once the Throne goes down, a tear in the warp all of a sudden will appear on Terra. It's clear that the Emperor is not a flawless man. I'm imagining that in the aftermath of the fight with Horus, more then just his body was shattered. Malcador was dying, could only hold the gate together for moments longer, so with the Emp's not exactly in the right place, he made the decision to have himself interred on the throne, to keep Terra intact.

Not sure how many of you have read the Dark Angels HH novels. Cypher was a title within the chapter. A marine of some esteem was nominated and took on the name of Cypher, forsaking his old name.

He was the keeper of the traditions of the chapter. Essentially the mystic of the Dark Angels. During the HH novels the original Cypher does die, and his replacement is selected by Jonson, much to the surprise of Zahariel, it's not who he expected it to be.

At the point that the novels are at, the identity and aims of the new Cypher are uncertain. Likely we won't know what transpires to make him take the road he does... but hopefully the last novel will reveal enough.

Or they could leave us hanging.... just to infuriate us.

 djones520 wrote:
When is the 30K Cypher killed? Last word I've read on 30K Cypher is that it's Zaharial, who took the position after offing the Knight of Lupus Cypher.

As for the OP, it's been hypothesized that Cypher knows the truth, about the Emperor being an Eternal, and that unplugging him from the Golden Throne would allow him to reboot. This happening would revitalize the Imperium, as the Emperor would be back, but it would also destroy the Imperium, because it is nothing at all like what the Emp's wanted it to be (not to mention destroy Terra as a massive warp rift would tear open from when Magnus accidentally shattered the Webway portal the Emp's was working on).

It doesn't seem like Zahariel ever was Cypher, though according to the Changer of Ways Epimetheus/Zahariel encounters, he was meant to be, but switched places with the person who was supposed to be in Epimetheus' place. Cypher is 30k isn't a Space Marine and is actually an old man.