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So it does, good on them. I must have skimmed over that. Still pretty expensive to go Praets in Scythes, but it's at least legal now.

col_impact wrote:
Wraiths are the best tarpitters in all of 40k

That's a really strange way to spell Flesh Hounds of Khorne.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He placed Illuminor as top tier so I don't know if it is a troll or not.

If you're running a CAD with lines of troops, Szeras is the best character you can choose.

On the other hand, those types of armies don't win games.

Klowny wrote:
Well this is intense.

I have a question about how we deal with Tzeench deamon summoning.

how do we deal with Tzeench deamon summoning?

Haha cute. You don't really, for both of you it's just a game of trying to cover the objectives with your bodies and keep the other off. You by being Necrons and not dying, him by flooding it with free bodies. Neither of you have ObSec (well, his Troops will, but not the Summoned ones afaik), so it's just a grind to see who holds objectives.

Spoiler alert, it's usually the army with 1000 free points backed up by superbuffed Princes (and now Magnus).

The Necron lists winning big ITC events are Pylonstar, and that's only because nobody is really building around it. FMC Daemonspam might coincidentally counter it, but it's also built to counter darn near everything else. Maybe we'll see a Wraithstar or some other spoiler list in the top 8, but honestly Pylons are probably going to be the only Necrons there imho.

I'd love to be surprised and see a really solid atypical list win, granted.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Praetorians are Fearless so they can help tie up Wraithknights for a turn if that's truly an issue. They're surprisingly one of our better MC counters.

In what world do Praetorians tie up Wraithknights? WKs double them out so weaker RP, they have no Invuln, and they're worse at eating Stomps than Wraiths, and they do less or the same amount of damage. Their only upside to Wraiths when fighting WKs is that they can do damage from a range (unless the Wraiths take the overpriced TBeamers).

 Plainshow wrote:
It would take a full game turn for the Wraithknight to remove them, because they don't get swept after the first round. Unless the Wraithknight rolls insanely well, it is stopped for two Assault phases.

Depends on how big the unit is. A 5 man unit does nothing. A 10 man unit might tie it up for longer (depending on Stomps, because always depending on Stomps), but that's an expensive unit.

Still, I've not tried 10 man Praet units. If the Judicator Battalion wasn't such a big buy in it might be more manageable, but you're paying 405 for minimum units on top of Decurion, 545 for a 10 man, 685 for two ten mans.

Eh, I feel split on it. That big unit will be very durable against a lot of things, but will just be dead against Tau and you're only bringing it as a speedbump for WKs, and they'll just get worn down against Scatbikes before they get in any sort of range. Not even gonna mention D-guns.

Against Deathstars (aka 50% of the meta), they're basically just nothing unless you just play keep away with them all game. Against GSC (the current spoiler/anti-meta army), they're... ok. Most of them go super MSU or have one big blob unit, neither of which an expensive 10 man unit is particularly good against.

Would be nice if you could give them a IC to keep up with, but the DLord is about your only choice. He's ok, but slowing down takes away their big mobility strength and fitting in a 10 man unit and a DLord in a Decurion is really, really tight.

Maybe I'll fiddle with the list a bit. Seems neat but I think a hard fit for the current meta. Would be super good against Battle Company - except for the Grav portions.

On the one hand, it's nice to see a mix of armies on the top tables. On the other, it sucks that the meta is so brutal that other armies just have no shot at making it there in the first place.

col_impact wrote:
Allying in a Riptide Wing answers all of Necron's problems.

Allying in a Helldrake Terror pack is also viable.

"A good way to win is to just ally in top-tier units from a different codex"

Is this how Dark Eldar feel?

Ceann wrote:
Zahndrekh starts on the board with the guards as well as the doomblades.
The guards were so he doesn't get blasted off the board standing by himself. I suppose I could ditch the guard and just stand him with the immortals.

He is going to be using hyperlogical strategist to improve all my reserve rolls for the flyers. After that will depends on what else is going on, likely he will go after any opposing units on my backfield.

I took the immortals because they are required, I went above 5 because I didn't know where to put the points. So what should I do with those points? More warriors?

Only have 6 tomb blades but it wouldn't be an issue to get more.

Unless you're really impatient to finish modeling everything, don't build anything with different options for a few months. Who knows what the next edition will bring.

 skoffs wrote:
So long as they include the rules for Always Strikes First/Last, I'll be okay with bringing some of those AoS stuff over.
...
SOME.

AoS's system is actually awesome and I'd be ok with most of it coming. I can understand them leaving out turn priority, but honestly I think 40k people would get used to it as well.

 skoffs wrote:
Something tells me everyone who built their guys as Lychguard instead of Praetorians is going to be kicking themselves, come summer.

That's why I have both

In reality, I hope they make Lychguard into the premier bodyguards they're supposed to be. That's why I built the shields in the first play tbh.

Disagree on one point - a DLord attached to Warriors is a fine unit. He tanks AP4 or worse shots, they're 10 extra wounds (more if you count RP) for him. Gauss Flayers with PE aren't even bad. Once they get close, he can peel off and fight things solo (tough enough to do so), and if he stays with them, they bog down units super hard while he scythes through them (though yeah give him a Warscythe).

10 Warriors with a DLord beats every other infantry unit and is a serious threat to higher tough units with Gauss + PE, and vehicles since you're already Gauss, but now you also reroll 1s to hit. And then he can charge with a Warscythe after.

It's no Deathstar and I wouldn't put other ICs with it other than maybe Orikan for durability trolling, but as a midfield unit it's actually quite useful.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why do you need to tank shots for frickin Warriors? That's the first hole in your logic.

S4 shots are not impressive with PE, and against vehicles you're not even getting half a glance more.

Tanking means more than keeping the unit safe. It means ignoring wounds. I run mine with 2+, and essentially anything shot at the unit is ignored if it's not AP2, and if it is, it just gets shrugged off on negligible Warriors.

Not everything in the game is Wraithknights and Imperial Knights. PE Gauss Flayers do very well against MSU Marines (aka Battle Company, one of the most popular builds right now), Genestealer Cults (an army that most top level players agree is nearly OP but no one wants to build), and Jetbikes if they get in range (IC with Veil, or just walking through fire because 2+/RP/Orikan).

It's not a power unit by any means, but run it against anyone who isn't doing cheese bull like Riptide spam or Deathstars and you'll find that putting a kitted DLord with Warriors is quite useful.

col_impact wrote:
Nobody is saying that putting a D Lord with Warriors isn't useful, only that it is not optimal.

There is no optimal for Necrons right now. We can't keep up with Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial cheese, GSC, and Daemon/Magnus. I stopped even worrying about making competitive lists for Crons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Nobody is saying that putting a D Lord with Warriors isn't useful, only that it is not optimal.

There is no optimal for Necrons right now. We can't keep up with Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial cheese, GSC, and Daemon/Magnus. I stopped even worrying about making competitive lists for Crons.

Then don't bother trying to give advice to try and optimize a list. Otherwise there's no point of discussion.

I didn't. I responded to the comment saying there's no reason to put a DLord with Warriors. There clearly is. It's not uber-competitive, but I personally don't think there is anything in the book that is right now.

Try that again in easier to read please.

Yeah the only issue with running that many HDs is that you're putting a massive number of points into low number of shots. One shot per model is such a problem against a lot of armies. Sure you'll be pretty good at sniping off like, maybe some MSU or MCs, but a lot of stuff needs a much higher volume.

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
You guys keep talking about pylons and stuff, is the FW cron stuff worth it? Should I buy FoO and the like for competitive lists?

Be wary about buying FW Necron stuff. It hasn't been updated in a long time (so some places don't even allow it), and with the rules overhaul coming with 8th we may see them re-release the rules shortly after. They redid all their Fantasy stuff for AoS, so I'd put a pin in it until after the new edition.

I'm calling bunk. At the very least, #2 is bull since the new Shadow War: Armageddon box set just shipped with blast and flamer templates, along with rules referencing them. And the unit profiles in that look suspiciously like the unit profiles you might see in a new edition of 40k, so I'm inclined to think that they're not going anywhere. They could be, but I'd be really surprised if they were gone.

June/July also seems really early, to be honest.

Odrankt wrote:
Codexs aren't "gone" but will be more like AoS Battletombs. They won't be necessary if you have the "40K Generals Handbook". But it will be for people who will want to know the fluff, formations and new "warscrolls".

If we go by Shadow War: Armageddon.

Spoiler:

Necrons have the Shred special rule for their guns instead of Gauss. Siince Gauss auto-pens on 6s and these rumours say armour will be gone it looks like we will have Shred instead of Gauss rule for our weapons. Which might actually be more devastating. But, army might be points heavy though to balance that rule if it is on every gun.

Shadow Wars "spoiler"

I couldn't be more excited. The next few months will be amazingly painfully wonderful!

Rerolling Wounds on everything Guass would be dope in my book. As would something like 6s to wound are Rend -1/-2.

I just hope I can still use my Renegade Knight alongside the Necrons. I put a lot of effort into that conversion...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually the only 1 thing I REALLY REALLY want is for C'tan to be good. Just... make them good. I own one of each and would run an army with three at the drop of a hat.

Depends on a lot of things. If Ghost Arks can carry non-Warriors again? Lychguard will be amazing. If you can charge out of Night Scythes? Ditto.

Too early to tell anything. Just trying to be patient and not lose my mind.

 skoffs wrote:
From the community update about weapon profiles-

The rules team behind the new game have taken the opportunity to rebalance a lot of the weapons in the game, and with the new armour modifier system and removal of the cap of 10 on Strength values, we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.

Oh man, if they changed the choose-target-then-roll-for-powers for C'tan, I cannot WAIT to see how they turn out with these changes!

I feel like C'tan will be wildly different, but I know I may still be disappointed :(

I want to run Necrons that are light on bots but heavy on Monsters, Vehicles, and Canoptek units. Would be so much fun!

 Klowny wrote:
How will warscythes work now? Armourbane is null and void, will they be doing d6 wounds @ -3 save or something comparable?

Also, can see the doom scythe potentially making a huge comeback? Now that blast templates and armourbane are gone, its going to put out a TON of wounds.

I'm thinking Warscythes will be wither d3 or 3 damage, doubled against Vehicle keyword. Rend -2 or better for sure.

The removal of blast is such a blessing for Doomsday Arks and Doom Scythes. Can't wait to put them back on the table!

Worrying that our only mention on the Warzones page of the site is in the Baal sector as a side-party to Blood Angels. While the new narrative is supposed to be more focused on Imperium vs Chaos, I just hope we don't get brushed under the rug.


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Dew wrote:
Snippet from today's announcement:

"Every faction will have its own psychic lore with a range of thematic powers"

EVERY faction? Crons getting psykers?

I hope C'tan powers work the same. In the Psychic Phase, use their powers as if they were Psykers but can't be denied.

Close combat weapons (which we’ll look at in more detail in future) also gain new rules – some will slice through armour easily, while others will hit with enough force to cause deal multiple wounds that can cripple or kill even powerful enemy models.

WARSCYTHES

Also if we remain all LD10, you have to lose 6 models before you can even fail a test (without modifiers).

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Also if we remain all LD10, you have to lose 6 models before you can even fail a test (without modifiers).

Which is probably why we won't be LD10. Remember that marines went from LD8 to LD7. There will be changes.

I dunno. Plenty of AoS armies are Bravery 10 all around (all Death, all Daemons, Seraphon), so it's not impossible.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/new-warhammer-40000-characters-may9gw-homepage-post-4/

Point by point thoughts for the best army in the game:

1) Characters no longer join to units, but buff around them. This could be a massive boon to Crypteks, if they still give out the +1 to RP or other defensive bonus. If it goes back to Res Orbs, we'll see those out in force as well.

I wonder if the Destroyer Lord will still give out something similar to Preferred Enemy. It could be a massive bump for him - stick him in a wall of Warriors and get them all buffed up from shooting.

Hard to tell what the effect will be not knowing what our buffs will look like.

2) You can't shoot characters unless they're the closest target. For our Characters, this really makes me want to take lots of Warriors to walk in front of the Overlords and what not.

For enemy characters, I can forsee this being a big reason to take Deathmarks - the second there is a place for them to land behind a unit, they'll pop down and blast out a bunch of shots into the important Character in the back. With the death of the Scatter Dice, Deathmarks are going to become really scary pinpoint killers.

3) Blocking doesn't work for Characters more than 10 Wounds. If Gulliman only has 9, I don't imagine the Destroyer Lord having more than that, nor any of the foot dudes.

However, the CCB will probably be ~10-12 I would imagine, meaning while it'll be a good unit, it probably won't be a good idea to take one as your Warlord in case they have a way to pop it quickly.

4) Heroic Intervention will let Characters pile in and attack even if they aren't within 1". I can see us positioning Warscythe Characters in such a way that charging our Warriors or Immortals will drag in the scary melee units.

5) Without attaching or Look Out Sir, what of Lychguard? As the quintessential bodyguard unit, I would imagine they'll have some sort of rule that lets them absorb damage if they're nearby a Character (some bodyguard units in AoS have this), but we'll have to wait and see.

I like this update!


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EBWOP:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

In this Guard article, they confirm Snipers will hit Characters even through units. Deathmarks a go-go!

They also give a Leman Russ a profile of W12/T8/3+. Stands to reason that our Arks will be around there, Monoliths probably tougher, Barges maybe a bit squishier.