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Hey everyone!  I'm a long time Guard player, and I've been a member for a while (had to remake acct after you redid forums, and it looks like you've redone them again, as I've been away a while and my acct was inactive).  I used to try infantry based guard, and even drop guard, but unfortunatly I only created an expensive, time consuming army of crap.  So now, even though I'm not the biggest fan of 40k anymore from the new edition, I wanted to take a break from Fantasy for a little while, and decided to make an armored company.  I'm going to buy the book for it, but to save a bit on shipping, I was wondering what vehicles you reccomend I buy first?  I was thinking a few Leman Russ tanks, but what for HQ and the rest of the choices?

As a fellow guard player, and newbie to the world of armored companies, I can offer advice, tips and ideas that I have come across on my way to commanding a tank battalion.

1st off, every AC list needs a command tank. Because of this tank's improved BS, it is better to take a tank such as a vanquisher or exterminator; tanks that rely on the improved BS to do more damage. A Vanquisher would give this list much needed anti tank capability. Playing a normal russ as a command tank will not effectively take advantage of it's improved BS because russes just drop ord. all over the place, never needed to take BS testing shots.

2nd, Russes are anti-troop tanks, therefore, a hull mounted lascannon seems impractical when compared to the multishot heavy bolter. Not only will you save points, but you will be able to take on swarms if your cannon is destroyed.

3rd, AV14 is the way to go. By taking vehicles with armor values less than 14, you are giving your opponent more opprotunities to destroy your vehicles. For example, a 10 man SM squad has 1 lascannon, and 9 bolters. Against AV14, this squad has one chance at penetrating, against AV10, this squad now has 10 weapons capable of damage. Weapons that have a strength of 7 or less are neutralized by the AV14, making only the strongest weapons threatening to your Russes.

Thanks for the tips. Anyone else? I'd psot an idea I had but I graduated last night and my friends and I went to a school party on the base and it just ended at like 3 or 4 am.

*EDIT* Ok I'm more awake now.Alright so if I remember correctly, Russ tanks are troop choices, no?  So I will need 2 or more of them.  Plus a command tank, making a basic deployment.  What about armored fist?  From the book I borrowed a while back from a friend, I know I can take them along, so would that be recomended?  And the sentinals, I found it kind of annoying that right after they put the book out, they put experimental sentendal rules out that makes them very nice, so I'm limited to just the lascannon/multilaser version I beleve, unless I want to take the one with the hydraulic arms, which I can't find a use for.  Aditionally, the Crusader(?) tank, the one with the heavy cannon that isn't ord. and uses the smaller template, with the new rules in Revised 3rd ed. 40k, where I can fire ord. on the move, do they still have any place?  Forgeworld is down right now, so I can't get ahold of any of their listings atm.  

I have also noticed taht the complete kits for FW tanks, the ones using Russ bodies, are a better deal than core GW--the FW ones come out to about 35 bucks, wich is cheaper than GW's 40-45 buck sets, and they come with the parts you use to convert them.

This may be personal preferance, but every good Armored Company list I have seen has been anchored by a Baneblade or any other big tank. They distract fire from your line Russes. Also when you play, you don't have to shoot ordanace all the time. Agains some armies it is better to lay out the Heavy bolter shots. Only against MEQ would you really need Ordanace. I have also seen AC used well with a Basilisk or two.

Definatly going to need some Bassies. Their huge range will give me an advantage of shelling them in turn one. Dunno about getting any of the super heavies though, as they're very expensive. For troops I was also considering an Exterminator--quite ALOT of shots those get off.
Also, what about Aircraft? Are those worth the cash investment?
And are there any stat differences between normal Russ tanks and the Mars Pattern? They don't seem to sell normal russ's on FW's site, only complete/conversion kits for their own custom tanks.

I think your conversions from british pounds to american dollars might be off. Forgeworld lists "conversion kits" and "complete conversion kits". The "complete conversion kits" contain the entire tank plus additional pieces, while "conversion kits" only contain the turret, armor, etc. The "EXTERMINATOR GRYPHONNE IV COMPLETE KIT" retails for 27 pounds, and converting that into dollars becomes 50 dollars plus s+h from UK.

Personally, when concerning price and aircraft, I find little worth in a model that costs 122 dollars. Call me cheap, call me broke, but I rather come away with 2-3 tanks rather than an aircraft that requires a new rulebook, and an explination of its capabilities to my opponents.

Exterminators are very nice tanks, especially when coupled with the improved BS of either a command tank or a tank ace. GW still has the exterminator bits avaiiable through the online archive.

The conqueror, capable of firing a small blast on the move, if I remember correctly, doesn't have to worry about scattering.

Yeah my conversion was way off--I selected Euro instead of pounds by accident. I think for my command tank, I will go with a vanquisher--+1BS and anti-armor ability is very nice.

About the scout vehicles, are those worth while? They look very thin to me.

And on aircraft, I agree that they don't seem worth the money. It would be nice if they had a real use, as some of them look very cool, like the new lighter and VIP air transport, but they lack a true purpose.

Thanks to Ebay I'm getting my Russ tanks rather low priced, so I might be able to spend a bit more on other things.

Have you ever seen a hellhound in action? If so, why don't you have three inked into your list, and if not, go and ink them in now. They are rediculously good, and while not as hard as a russ, they dish out as much if not more pain that the heavier tanks. Also, your average russ with anti-tank shells is golden (if you're tight on points you can give just your aces/HQ tanks the shells). Get a bunch of these bad boys and you'll be all set. About the exterminator: the only thing that it has over the russ is a TL auto cannon that can shoot while firing the heavy bolters. The russ? AP 3 pie plate. It's a no-brainer (especially if you put in those hellhounds).

cheers

I'd recommend taking an extensive look at the 4th ed. rules for blast, large blast, barrage, and ordinance weapons, as there has been at least one very significant change. Specifically, when you place a circular template the hole in the template has to be on the base of an enemy model, so you usually get less hits from a blast, especially the small blast templates. Just something to consider. (It is the Basilisk that fires a small template right? I thought one of the IG tanks did.)

"(It is the Basilisk that fires a small template right? I thought one of the IG tanks did.)"

nope. pie plate, ord. template.

No, the only ones that I know of that fire a small template are the conquerer, and the griffin moarter if using siege shells. What exactly has changed? I never fought much using 4th ed rules and tanks--I do know I can fire the ord and move, with 2d6" scatter...other than that I'm not sure.

"(It is the Basilisk that fires a small template right? I thought one of the IG tanks did.)"

nope. pie plate, ord. template.

Thanks, my mistake, I musta been thinking of the Fire Prism for some reason.

What exactly has changed?

The biggest thing in my mind is that you have to center the blast template over a model, which severely cuts down on the hits for a normal sized blast template. Mostly a moot point since I was wrong about the Basilisk, but it's something to keep in mind.

You don't have to guess ranges for guess range weapons/indirrect fire guys. You just put the template where you want it and roll for scatter. It's kind of rediculous.

cheers

Yay for simplified rules /sarcasm.

I like guessing, sorta balanced their range.

Here's a compilation of all the help!!

Command tank:
Vanquisher
hull lascannon

Tank Ace
Vanquisher
hull lascannon

Troops
2x Leman Russ
hull heavy bolter

2x Leman Russ
hull heavy bolter

Fast Attack
hellhound
heavy stubber

hellhound
heavy stubber

hellhound
heavy stubber

Heavy support

Basilisk
Indirect fire

Baslisk
Indirect fire

Well, I just ordered one Russ, and have I think 2 more on ebay I'm bidding over (Few days left I'm afraid) so that and a vanquiher would be a good place to start, correct? Also, why lascannon on the vanquisher? If swarmers come too close, wont I need some sort of anti-infantry weapon? Or should I dedicate a russ or two to guarding it from just that sort of thing?

Dude, if swarms are getting to your tanks, you're doing something wrong. You have three inferno cannons for a reason.

yeah thats true lol

The new rules for those I've never used accually, cus I found them a bit confusing. I'll have to pick those up next, after the ruses get in.

remember that the vanqs. fulfill your anti tank need. In the case that you lose the main cannon, the lascannon would still help serve this purpose.

the 6 ord. templates + 3 inferno cannons should help keep the hordes away. All of your normal russes + the baslisks ARE the anti infantry element.

Against AC lists, opponents tend to take lots of small squads to maximize the # of heavy weapons.

And minimize casualites, as smaller squads = less area covered/squad -> harder to hit.

Posted By rryannn on 06/03/2006 12:32 PM
Here's a compilation of all the help!!

Command tank:
Vanquisher
hull lascannon

Tank Ace
Vanquisher
hull lascannon

Troops
2x Leman Russ
hull heavy bolter

2x Leman Russ
hull heavy bolter

Fast Attack
hellhound
heavy stubber

hellhound
heavy stubber

hellhound
heavy stubber

Heavy support

Basilisk
Indirect fire

Baslisk
Indirect fire

I just realized--with no AF Squads, how in the world am I going to hold anything?

Have you considered using Kroot Mercs? I just recently started my own Armoured Company and decided to try out kroot with them. They add that little something that I felt was missing to the AC. As a bonus, all the rules for my army is downloadable .

I just realized--with no AF Squads, how in the world am I going to hold anything

With your 11 scoring units, which happen to be your entire army. Tanks, as long as they are not dedicated transports, are scoring units.

"Have you considered using Kroot Mercs?"

can an AC list include allies?

There is nothing listed in the Armoured company rules stating that they may not take allies. In the Kroot rules, Ig and Armoured Company are not listed in the armies not allowed to take the kroot. Therefore we can assume that the Armoured Company can take Kroot allies. The Same logic would apply to using Deathwatch, Witchhunters, and Daemonhunters.

here we go assuming again!

Are you assuming that they cannot take allies?

well, yes.
i said,"here we go assuming again!". we.

there's no mention of them being an ally on other lists.
their list doesn't say they can have allies.
not to mention the fact that it's a strong list by it's self.
not to many "standard" lists can handle 7-9 AV14 tanks.

I agree with some points you have, but still feel allies can add to a list. Rather than highjacking this thread, I'll start new thread over in the rules department.